A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

[adrianlondon]

	Quote:	Phos
	there are many who love the ugly of the site

Thought I'd see posts from you on this thread.

[Wasted]

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Total nonsense. Where you get the idea that I'm biased against anyone is beyond me. I'm not into pub culture, and spend little time with British expats. As to the suggestion that I'm biased against the Swiss - I don't know whether to or I think you must be reflecting your own attitudes onto me.

You can , what happened to your sense of humour? Been in Switzerland for too long?

I was just illustrating (re: carrying weight) that you wanting to live in Switzerland does NOT necessarily means you like Swiss people.

	Quote:	adrianlondon
	Thought I'd see posts from you on this thread.

You thought right.

	Quote:	Natasha
	This sort of crap going on really reflects badly...to anyone venturing into the forum.

Don't blame the members, it's the forum's fault. It's got bad feng shui. No need to file a police report. Worst case situation, somebody just needs to stick a fish tank and a few potted plants next to the server. That should fix things.

[Upthehatters2008]

Let's just delete everything , posts , accounts , ads (except my posts and account) and start again

C:\ format englishforum.ch /V "Version 2"
Format complete.

Make everybody re-register, ban any previous names from being used, reset the rep counters , reset the groans and thanks.

That's what I would do that is.

[woolly]

	Quote:	Phos
	By the way, this is the responsibility of mods, to make sure that the content on the site is within legal standards.

The owners of a site could potentially be held responsible. Reminds me of Gina ford vs mumsnet, they wanted to defend the freedom of speech of their members but ended up settling out of court with ford. (British law not Swiss of course)
http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfre...e&type=article

[NotAllThere]

	Quote:	Wasted
	You can , what happened to your sense of humour? Been in Switzerland for too long? I was just illustrating (re: carrying weight) that you wanting to live in Switzerland does NOT necessarily means you like Swiss people.

Darn!

OK, I got it wrong. I'm sorry.

[Ziger]

	Quote:	Phos
	Poor victims again? Favorable interpretaion, but some members and a real judge may not agree with you. Truth be told, there are many who love the ugly of the site, and seem to exist as members solely for that purpose. The litmus test is whether there would be any change in direction after admonishment. Admonishment is not bullying, it is correction.

Not quite sure I get what you mean.

I was trying to make several points.

1. I haven’t read anything that constitutes a crime under the racism law in the Swiss Criminal Code. Maybe I have missed something, in which case I will be glad to admit I’m wrong.
2. There are possibilities within the forum if a comment has crossed the line: deleting, banning etc. and these should be applied first, not threats of legal action and inviting others to join in writing a letter to the authorities about the English Forum. If the threats of legal action are what you mean by admonishment, then it is bullying in my opinion, especially because the elements necessary for it to be a crime under the Swiss racism law have not been met. Would a Swiss judge agree with me? As I am basing my opinions on Swiss case law and commentary, probably.
3. If none of that works and the comments are strong enough for criminal liability, well, that’s what the courts are there for. They are meant as a final remedy, not the first.

[The Real Stig]

Thank you!

	Quote:	slaphead
	that said, i've got say that i'm getting a little tired of the general people bashing going on here at the moment.

[mirfield]

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	Make everybody re-register, ban any previous names from being used, reset the rep counters , reset the groans and thanks.

Is that you, MrsT?

[Upthehatters2008]

	Quote:	mirfield
	Is that you, MrsT?

Obviously my bum DOES look big in this

[Joey82]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	What? French bashing has been outsourced? Good old times are gone.

No worries, you still have the Belgians

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Ziger
	Wow! I’ve been gone a few days and now this. Ugly! The threats of legal action are an unnecessary and unhelpful escalation. What follows is a little insight into the Swiss Criminal Code and court practice, beginning with the relevant law (in English! of course): The parts I’ve highlighted are the ones that could possibly be relevant. Hate, according to the Bundesgericht, is much more than antipathy, aversion, animosity and dislike and also more than anger and fury. It is a fundamentally hostile attitude. I haven’t read through all the comments but it would take quite a lot for this definition to be fulfilled. Simply bitching about the Swiss and saying negative things about them is not enough to meet the standards of Art. 261bis of the Swiss Criminal Code. Violation of human dignity This would be the case when the comments deny Swiss people their fundamental human rights, i.e., treat them as if they are less than human and undeserving of respect and dignity. For example, a newspaper article described all people who seek asylum as freeloaders who are unwilling and uninterested in working. This was not considered a violation. The Swiss courts differentiate between slander and racism and also between racism and the freedom of speech. Again, it takes a lot more than bad-mouthing the Swiss to fall under Art. 261bis. Certainly not everyone does it on the forum and it is not forum policy to encourage this. Could some of the comments be considered slanderous? Perhaps. That doesn’t make them racist or discriminatory in the sense of Art. 261bis. And it certainly doesn’t make the English Forum guilty of inciting or disseminating racist and discriminatory ideologies. Throwing around threats is certainly a great way to try to intimidate people, especially foreigners who may not know the ins and outs of the legal system in the country that they are living in. I understand that it is not nice to hear people rag on your country or culture: I am American after all. American bashing in general seems to be very acceptable but despite all the horrible things I have read and heard said about Americans, it would not cross my mind to try and drag someone or a whole forum in front of the court because my (American) sensibilities have been hurt. Discuss: yes. Confront and explain why the opinion that was expressed is invalid, hurtful etc: absolutely. Threaten legal action: bullying is ugly.

I guess if the SVP haven't been caught by this, we're all pretty safe

[miss_bean]

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	Obviously my bum DOES look big in this

It is derogatory to talk about the bums on a public forum ! Shall I report it?

[Upthehatters2008]

	Quote:	miss_bean
	It is derogatory to talk about the bums on a public forum ! Shall I report it?

Why would anyone report my Bum ?

[Ziger]

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	Why would anyone report my Bum ?

It violates pub(l)ic dignity?

[miss_bean]

	Quote:	Upthehatters2008
	Why would anyone report my Bum ?

Because it is right here,big obstacle blocking the thread ..

[AbFab]

	Quote:	Natasha
	Xenophobes Guide? If only a writer so insightful and funny would contribute to this forum. I have given it to some of my Swiss friends and they find it hilarious.

Fat chance of that I'm afraid...

	Quote:	rachelw
	The owners of a site could potentially be held responsible. Reminds me of Gina ford vs mumsnet, they wanted to defend the freedom of speech of their members but ended up settling out of court with ford. (British law not Swiss of course) http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfre...e&type=article

This typically happens when the site owners refuse to cooperate with authorities, and defend the privacy of its users.

	Quote:	Ziger
	There are possibilities within the forum if a comment has crossed the line: deleting, banning etc. and these should be applied first, not threats of legal action and inviting others to join in writing a letter to the authorities about the English Forum. If the threats of legal action are what you mean by admonishment, then it is bullying in my opinion, especially because the elements necessary for it to be a crime under the Swiss racism law have not been met. Would a Swiss judge agree with me? As I am basing my opinions on Swiss case law and commentary, probably.

I agree that a user complaint it is the first step of action. If a mod(s) disregards a complaint, or that mod(s) have a reputation and pattern of disregarding user complaints, then a pattern of behavior that can be establish. Laws also consider patterns of behavior, not just particular incidents.

The whole thing might be avoided if EF had a huge billboard upfront that stated:

-The content on EF is mainly for lulz purposes
-Posts are NOT to be taken seriously
-Take advise at your own risk
-Enter at your own risk
-EF not responsible for harm or injury inflicted on those who voluntarily read the posts on the site