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  #101  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:38
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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This typically happens when the site owners refuse to cooperate with authorities, and defend the privacy of its users.

I agree that a user complaint it is the first step of action. If a mod(s) disregards a complaint, or that mod(s) have a reputation and pattern of disregarding user complaints, then a pattern of behavior that can be establish. Laws also consider patterns of behavior, not just particular incidents.

Well I agree to what you say, there should be some level of check if things go beyond control or complaints/escalations should be taken more seriously.
But looking around most of the threads(not the hate threads, I am not in favour of them), It is quite difficult to judge whats "beyond control" in these normal threads..

1) how is life in switzerland as a single mum?
2) driving rules/problems ?
3) SBB travel tips etc
4)which is the best Health insurance etc

People will give opinion which will either appreciate the system or will make it look "ugly". All the above threads are directly or indirectly related to the swiss system, so if it is perceived as swiss bashing or taken offensive, it is difficult to judge a "genuine complaint"

Last edited by miss_bean; 18.03.2011 at 15:09.
  #102  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:38
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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The whole thing might be avoided if EF had a huge billboard upfront that stated:

-The content on EF is mainly for lulz purposes
-Posts are NOT to be taken seriously
-Take advise at your own risk
-Enter at your own risk
-EF not responsible for harm or injury inflicted on those who voluntarily read the posts on the site
I believe that it applies to ALL forums that exist on the internet in general.
  #103  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:39
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

Sticks and stones? I guess i took freedom of speech for granted in the US. That law referenced earlier by Ziger would be unconstitutional. The states and federal government can't discriminate, but private individuals certainly can, on a public forum or anywhere else.

Seems like that law is worse than the harm it tries to prevent. It takes an idiot to be a bonafide racist, as scientists agree that all homo sapiens share a common ancestry. So there's no rational basis for a belief that any race is inherently inferior or superior. For the same reason, it's also idiotic to take offense at derogatory statements about one's race.

The only part of that law which makes sense is "any person who refuses to provide a service to another on the grounds of that person’s race, ethnic origin or religion when that service is intended to be provided to the general public."
  #104  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:40
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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The whole thing might be avoided if EF had a huge billboard upfront that stated:

-The content on EF is mainly for lulz purposes
-Posts are NOT to be taken seriously
-Take advise at your own risk
-Enter at your own risk
-EF not responsible for harm or injury inflicted on those who voluntarily read the posts on the site
-Coffee is Hot

  #105  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:48
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

DB, You stole my wind!

How can I grow if you won't let me blow?



-Rachel, Friends.
  #106  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:49
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

What would the Complaint Corner be like if it wasn't what it stands for, huh?
  #107  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:50
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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DB, You stole my wind!

How can I grow if you won't let me blow?



-Rachel, Friends.
Indecent decent proposal ?
  #108  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:54
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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How can I grow if you won't let me blow?
Nil...............nevermind....
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  #109  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:55
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

Did this really require a thread DB? Could a couple of PM's not have asked the offended parties more easily?
  #110  
Old 18.03.2011, 14:59
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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Well I agree to what you say, there should be some level of check if things go beyond control or complaints/escalations should be taken more seriously.
But looking around most of the threads(not the hate threads, I am not in favour of them), It is quite difficult to judge whats "beyond control" . Lets take normal threads..

1) how is life in switzerland as a single mum?
2) driving rules/problems ?
3) SBB travel tips etc
4)which is the best Health insurance etc

People will give opinion which will either appreciate the system or will make it look "ugly". All the above threads are directly or indirectly related to the swiss system, so if it is perceived as swiss bashing or taken offensive, it is difficult to judge a "genuine complaint"
Hmmm, the way I see it is that all of the threads you mention above are seeking advice and/or support. I can see how some people may have negative experiences within those discussions but the thread is not started with the sole purpose of "I hate XYZ let's complain".

Everything on EF should in some way be related to the "Swiss System" unless in international affairs or off topic. If it's not it quickly gets moved, closed or deleted.

I can see why people are cheesed off with threads that start of as a rant and descend into what can only be described as playground tit for tat. It's all got silly now and if I was a mod I'd have closed all the threads by now and somehow fried the sytem temporarily to give everyone a chance to cool off.
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  #111  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:02
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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if I was a mod I'd have closed all the threads by now and somehow fried the sytem temporarily to give everyone a chance to cool off.
Agreed, I'd have also closed all the hate threads especially (I hate the country) by now, and not opened few "new" threads to highlight the same problem! sad
  #112  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:21
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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Wow! I’ve been gone a few days and now this. Ugly!

The threats of legal action are an unnecessary and unhelpful escalation. What follows is a little insight into the Swiss Criminal Code and court practice, beginning with the relevant law (in English! of course):

The parts I’ve highlighted are the ones that could possibly be relevant.

Hate, according to the Bundesgericht, is much more than antipathy, aversion, animosity and dislike and also more than anger and fury. It is a fundamentally hostile attitude. I haven’t read through all the comments but it would take quite a lot for this definition to be fulfilled. Simply bitching about the Swiss and saying negative things about them is not enough to meet the standards of Art. 261bis of the Swiss Criminal Code.

Violation of human dignity
This would be the case when the comments deny Swiss people their fundamental human rights, i.e., treat them as if they are less than human and undeserving of respect and dignity. For example, a newspaper article described all people who seek asylum as freeloaders who are unwilling and uninterested in working. This was not considered a violation. The Swiss courts differentiate between slander and racism and also between racism and the freedom of speech.

Again, it takes a lot more than bad-mouthing the Swiss to fall under Art. 261bis. Certainly not everyone does it on the forum and it is not forum policy to encourage this. Could some of the comments be considered slanderous? Perhaps. That doesn’t make them racist or discriminatory in the sense of Art. 261bis. And it certainly doesn’t make the English Forum guilty of inciting or disseminating racist and discriminatory ideologies.

Throwing around threats is certainly a great way to try to intimidate people, especially foreigners who may not know the ins and outs of the legal system in the country that they are living in. I understand that it is not nice to hear people rag on your country or culture: I am American after all. American bashing in general seems to be very acceptable but despite all the horrible things I have read and heard said about Americans, it would not cross my mind to try and drag someone or a whole forum in front of the court because my (American) sensibilities have been hurt. Discuss: yes. Confront and explain why the opinion that was expressed is invalid, hurtful etc: absolutely. Threaten legal action: bullying is ugly.
Hey apparently I have a case now! Maybe I should bully this place too....

Do you realise how I could apply this to the muslim bashing thread all over the forum? Should I sue every single people who passed racists comments, assumptions and bla bla bla? Including the lady involve in this present threat? Should I sue the forum who took way too long before to stop that Sophisticat and who let her vomit her racist disgusting comments about muslim and Islam all over the forum? Comments, bashing and very disturbing opinions we still can find on this forum since they weren't deleted....



That would be ridiculous from my part and would affect too many people on this forum who are nice and respectful to others.... I don't like the bashing but I would never dare treatening someone or the forum to report them to the authorities...

But this translation is telling me that apparently, someone like me could complain... Wait... Muslims, Islam? In a country where they banned Minaret?

Ok forget it...
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  #113  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:31
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

Cool off guys, its Weekend!

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  #114  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:34
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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In a country where they banned Minaret?
You do realise that it wasn't the "authorities" that banned minarets, right?
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  #115  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:41
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

I'm not a troll. I haven't visited this forum for a months. I basically stumbled upon this hate thread, the kind of thing I expected to never be seen again.

I have nothing against EF being politically incorrect to some point. I understand that some users have issues with life in CH, and I already mentioned that in my first rant. Damn, I even have my own issues wit the CH, and I probably could agree with some of the things that are being said. I'd be your perfect neighbor.

However, when the admins decide that an openly anti-Swiss person becomes a moderator, it becomes a whole different scenario and they make themselves responsible.

The word "Moderator" comes from the latin "moderare" which means "to temper" or "to regulate". It means that the moderator is supposed to arbitrate, not to add fuel, or even take sides. It's even worse when the mod actually is the worst swiss hater on the forum.

A few examples from Economisto:

Quote:
-I've never used the "ignore" function - it seems terribly pathetic. Is it commonly used? Also, @Cherry, most of the things in this thread are true, and the language of Switzerland isn't German, it's Orc-German.

-"This culture" you say. Where? Point to it please. Asking an Englishman to adapt to the culture and manners of the Swiss is asking him to adopt an unacceptable handicap.

-What is a "Swiss manners"? There is only English manners or scruffy derivatives. Give a hillperson a pile of gold, incubate 100 years, and this is what you get. Delusions of civility.

-More helpful: is being Swiss something you can forget?
These threads were not joke-thread. They were serious discussions. And he simply keeps going, is being made a mod.

What I want is obvious: People like economisto, who crossed the line more than once, shouldn't be moderators on a public forum. It damages the reputation of the forum and the one of it's users. So fire this guy. He's a flamer, not a moderator!
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  #116  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:42
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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You do realise that it wasn't the "authorities" that banned minarets, right?
Who are the authorities? People.

Who lives in this country? People

Who vote in this country? People.

Same kind of reasoning we got from the two who threaten to report the forum to the authorities. They said that the forum support those comments by letting them on the forum and putting Eco to a mod position, so in their mind, the forum his responsable too....

I know.... I know...

Edit: Like the guy above said....
  #117  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:44
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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I'm not a troll. <snip>
So fire this guy. He's a flamer, not a moderator!
Don't get dizzy.
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  #118  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:48
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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I haven't visited this forum for a months.


Is that why you neg-repped me less than 3 weeks ago?

So really, this is all about your dislike of Economisto... Out of interest, how is reporting the site to the authorities going to help on that one?

Edit: still kudos for putting forward your case.
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  #119  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:55
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

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I'm not a troll. I haven't visited this forum for a months. I basically stumbled upon this hate thread, the kind of thing I expected to never be seen again.

I have nothing against EF being politically incorrect to some point. I understand that some users have issues with life in CH, and I already mentioned that in my first rant. Damn, I even have my own issues wit the CH, and I probably could agree with some of the things that are being said. I'd be your perfect neighbor.

However, when the admins decide that an openly anti-Swiss person becomes a moderator, it becomes a whole different scenario and they make themselves responsible.

The word "Moderator" comes from the latin "moderare" which means "to temper" or "to regulate". It means that the moderator is supposed to arbitrate, not to add fuel, or even take sides. It's even worse when the mod actually is the worst swiss hater on the forum.

A few examples from Economisto:



These threads were not joke-thread. They were serious discussions. And he simply keeps going, is being made a mod.

What I want is obvious: People like economisto, who crossed the line more than once, shouldn't be moderators on a public forum. It damages the reputation of the forum and the one of it's users. So fire this guy. He's a flamer, not a moderator!

Sometimes you say things , you really don't mean to hurt. They look more offensive when put/analyzed together in the post. Is he really that anti swiss? or is he being a target as the new mod/ego clash?

There are lot of threads where newbies get bashed(by swiss and nonswiss) on speaking against the "swiss" system and sometimes they strangely get applauded for complaining, it really depends onthe "crowd" and the responses. It is just the way, how the anonymous forums work.

Having said that Mods are humans too to post their opinion and never the less should follow "rules" if they exist.

Last edited by miss_bean; 18.03.2011 at 15:59. Reason: typos
  #120  
Old 18.03.2011, 15:55
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Re: A question for those who would report the EF to "the authorities"

Right, have I now sufficiently brought home the fact that "irony" as an excuse for pretty much anything and especially inappropriate comments simply doesn't work? Yes, the phone call I made was to a person who deals with such things but it was more about the situation with economisto who has also privately said things to me that belong in the same "Swiss-hatred" group and to check I can theoretically pin him down as he is posting from a Swiss IP address. I did not mention the website, so don't worry, kittens, your playpen is safe.

To say that someone is a bit thick or has no sense of humour when you are not joking is pretty low. And I am sure economisto is not joking, because I can add another dozen statements to the ones CHexo posted AND the private messages to the bunch. If this is joking, I'd hate to think what "serious" looks like.

And for the record - I didn't vote on the minarets, because I feel that religious issues should not be an integral part of the state's doings. Apart from the bit with the holidays, we can keep those.

What do I want? Economisto should not be a mod because if the person you are complaining about is the person you are complaining to, the system does not work. Like I said - who moderates the moderators?
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