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Old 25.07.2011, 13:38
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12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

Is this acceptable- and should adverts offering this sort of remuneration (for an adult, non live in) be accepted here on EF? What do you think?
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Old 25.07.2011, 13:39
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH?!?

The market will decide.

Is this thread in response to a particular job advert?
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Old 25.07.2011, 13:44
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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Is this acceptable- and should adverts offering this sort of remuneration (for an adult, non live in) be accepted here on EF? What do you think?
There's no minimum wage in Switzerland, unlike the UK, so the EF should be no different.

If someone wants to offer such a stingy wage, I think his/her inbox will remain a bit quiet, though...
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Old 25.07.2011, 13:47
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

I think it's this nanny thread. In fact, that's one of many "nanny threads", there is one in the health/family section discussing CHF 1400 pcm live-in, which for a full-time position is less than CHF 10 per hour.
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Old 25.07.2011, 14:24
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

in basel the standard rate for kinderkrippe is 2000 CHF full time. so if there are 40hours in a week and 4 weeks then it comes to 12 francs as well. it is not so strange.
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Old 25.07.2011, 14:26
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

I'm afraid that it really is dictated by the market Odile. The battleaxe paid my wife less than 10CHF per hour and my wife was in charge of 3 children on her own at times.

In the end a job is a job
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Old 25.07.2011, 14:27
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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in basel the standard rate for kinderkrippe is 2000 CHF full time. so if there are 40hours in a week and 4 weeks then it comes to 12 francs as well. it is not so strange.
It is when you consider that one carer has 5 or 6 kids at any one time, which kind of bumps up the rate a bit, doesn't it?
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Old 25.07.2011, 14:44
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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I'm afraid that it really is dictated by the market Odile. The battleaxe paid my wife less than 10CHF per hour and my wife was in charge of 3 children on her own at times.

In the end a job is a job
Yes, I realise this. And yet, no it isn't. Looking after young children is not the same as working in a bar, shop or cleaning, etc. As you well know this sort of job often comes with pitfalls- eg no Insurance, etc. Sadly, these adverts do turn out a lot of applicants, who are often desperate for anything. I live out in the sticks and yet a cleaning lady still gets 25 per hour- and none of the juge responsibilities of looking after a/some very young child/ren? Remember Louise Woodward and other cases? When our youngest was a baby, I answered an advert to look after another one whose mum was doing a Degree, and it worked very well, as she was able to interview me, see me at work for a week- and I'd come with strong personal references.
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Old 25.07.2011, 14:45
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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I think it's this nanny thread. In fact, that's one of many "nanny threads", there is one in the health/family section discussing CHF 1400 pcm live-in, which for a full-time position is less than CHF 10 per hour.
To be fair though, a live-in position would mean it was CHF10 per hour plus room and board. Not directly comparable, right?


The OP says Red Cross babysitters get paid CHF12 per hour. If that's true (I haven't checked but I have no particular reason to doubt it) then I reckon CHF12-14/hr is a reasonable place to start looking for a babysitter, at least. Whether you actually find someone qualified at that price is another question... as others have said, market forces and all that.

In any case, we don't require job adverts on EF to state a proposed salary, so it hardly seems fair to penalize employers who do volunteer that information.
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Old 25.07.2011, 14:50
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

Yes, I can see that. But this isn't just any job- is it? I am quite sure for instance that the staff proposed for emergency work by the Red Cross are all properly vetted and have some training given.
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:05
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

a) It's called a free market for a reason...

b) naturally, EF should not support or be party to anything illegal. As far as I know, low wages are not illegal.

c) if you take that logic far enough, should EF allow people trying to sell their 5 year old Plasma TV for chf 1,000 for instance??
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:08
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

What would the normal rate be for say a live out nanny with some experience? 25CHF an hour?
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:19
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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b) naturally, EF should not support or be party to anything illegal. As far as I know, low wages are not illegal.
They are for domestic work. This is one area where there is a federal minimum wage in all of Switzerland (except Geneva, where there is a cantonal minimum wage) - read it in German, or French.

Minimum wage generally starts at CHF 18.20 per hour for unskilled workers, rising to CHF 20.00 after four year's experience, and to CHF 22.00 for skilled workers (i.e. those holding an EFZ).
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:22
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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Yes, I can see that. But this isn't just any job- is it? I am quite sure for instance that the staff proposed for emergency work by the Red Cross are all properly vetted and have some training given.
Yes and no. As a moderator it's really not my job to go round and make sure that only qualified people are applying and only qualified employers are hiring. I don't see that babysitting work should be a special exception. Yes, it's a crucial job, lives are sometimes on the line etc. but the same could be said of many other jobs. What about working in a restaurant? Food poisoning's no joke, you know. Botulism can kill you just as dead as little Susie sticking her fingers in the light socket.

The fact is, a teenager with no particular training can look after kids and nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand nothing will go life-threateningly wrong. It's not rocket science, is it, or else we'd make parents take babysitting courses before being left alone with their offspring.

Lest I be misunderstood here, I'm not putting down babysitting qualifications at all. They're important, but hardly uniquely important, that's my point. Qualifications and salaries matter in lots of other industries too and I can't be expected to go round policing all of them on EF.
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:26
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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To be fair though, a live-in position would mean it was CHF10 per hour plus room and board. Not directly comparable, right?
Minimum wage for domestic workers is CHF 18.20 per hour. Assuming a 42-hour week (as if!) and the daily deductions allowed for providing full board, i.e.
Breakfast 3.50
Lunch 10.—
Dinner 8.—
Lodging 11.50
for a maximum of CHF 33.00 per day or CHF 231 per week, that means a mimimum wage of CHF 533.4 per week or roughly CHF 2'300 per calendar month (where one calendar month = 4.33 weeks).

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The OP says Red Cross babysitters get paid CHF12 per hour. If that's true (I haven't checked but I have no particular reason to doubt it) then I reckon CHF12-14/hr is a reasonable place to start looking for a babysitter, at least. Whether you actually find someone qualified at that price is another question... as others have said, market forces and all that.
Babysitter, yes. Nanny, no.
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Old 25.07.2011, 15:59
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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Yes, I realise this. And yet, no it isn't. Looking after young children is not the same as working in a bar, shop or cleaning, etc. As you well know this sort of job often comes with pitfalls- eg no Insurance, etc. Sadly, these adverts do turn out a lot of applicants, who are often desperate for anything. I live out in the sticks and yet a cleaning lady still gets 25 per hour- and none of the juge responsibilities of looking after a/some very young child/ren? Remember Louise Woodward and other cases? When our youngest was a baby, I answered an advert to look after another one whose mum was doing a Degree, and it worked very well, as she was able to interview me, see me at work for a week- and I'd come with strong personal references.
There is a point where it's makes more financial sense to send a child to a nursery than have a nanny. Personally I think a nursery is a better choice, but I don't have kids so what would I know?

If you don't like it then they will find someone who will take the job that pays that much...and believe me they will! Scrimping and saving on childcare isn't a great idea but parents do it

Perhaps the cleaning lady commands a better premium because she works less hours for you and there is no cheaper alternative (apart from cleaning yourself of course)
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:14
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

Many adverts say 'babysitter' but when you read the details it entails sole charge whilst mother is at work. I used babysitters at times when my kids where young- if we went to the cinema. We knew them so well, their parents were next door or opposite in case of any emergencies, etc. A very different kettle of fish, really. I realise it is not the job of EF to check credentials, etc- but the mind boggles- from both points of view. The agency that helped place Louise Woodward in a Nanny position with sole charge, for an Au-Pair's salary and without experience, was slated by Social services, the judiciary and all involved. Porsche you are better placed than most to know the dangers of working for somebody without Insurance.
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:19
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

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in basel the standard rate for kinderkrippe is 2000 CHF full time. so if there are 40hours in a week and 4 weeks then it comes to 12 francs as well. it is not so strange.
That all depends on one's wages. They have a scale from the poorest to the most rich parents.

But, it all depends, we paid the standard rate by our canton, which means, I believe the gov't pays a part to them as well, I don't know actually, and that was 6 CHF per hour per child. They can have more children at the same time as well. This was a government registered thing. I suppose going direct(under the table), has more risks, and there fore one should expect more per hour.

I wouldn't work for less then 25, you are paying too much in personal expenses for anything less.
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:22
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

Meloncollie has often pointed out that a dog sitter needs to be vetted and qualified. And yet a child-minder with sole charge of babies do not need any qualifications or training. Something is wrong somewhere, sorry.
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Old 25.07.2011, 16:22
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Re: 12-14CHF an hour in CH on EF?!?

Wages are always good to discuss, why not..As per cantonal suggestions that are downloadable, actually, in French, if you google, one pays 12-14fr to young sitter per hour. When you realize that maman du jour might make 5-7fr per hour per child, it's not a bad wage. 15-16yr old sitters after school, or those that cover lunch breaks, etc. will be happy to make extra few franks to have for weekends, or to pay their phone bills, etc.

So, in some context, that's a great wage for an under 20yr old sitter, who sits a few times of the week. Little jobs, summer jobs, part time jobs for young kids do not really exist here, so while I think I understand why you would want to have even this option regulated, I think the market is so over regulated already, it makes people who do want to work, poor, since the options might be too limited. I don't know that many people who can afford to pay a sitter more than 15fr per hour and still get out more than once or twice a month.
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