Avatars

[Pancakes]

Someone please let me know when the make-up sex comes in...

Merci.

[grynch]

	Quote:	Carrie F
	Someone please let me know when the make-up sex comes in... Merci.

well.............some of them are anyway.

[Motorschweitz]

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	<facts and well reasoned arguments>

Get out of here with those, this is the internet, and there is no place for those here

[Caviarchips]

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	But you chose to play the victim! Showing how it's offending the followers of that religion. Well done on your choice and on your extremely focused vision of that cartoon.

There has been some absolute cr@p posted on this thread since I last logged in, but this is the only bit that motivated me to respond.

I think that for somebody to have the balls to say "That offends me" and risk the resultant accusations of sensitivity, and to argue her corner with passion and without lapsing once into personal attack shows courage, not playing a victim.

That's insulting and unnecessary.

And for what its worth, I'm a non-Muslim English guy and I was a bit surprised that it was allowed to stay in a multicultural forum. You can't really explain why something offends, you just know when it does. So your forensic questions on each point are a bit redundant.

So disagree with her, argue with her, challenge her, but I think that your comments are without foundation and are grandstanding & patronising

[PaddyG]

	Quote:	Carrie F
	Someone please let me know when the make-up sex comes in... Merci.

The mind boggles....

Thats right guys, she can have freedom of speech.......... Unless of course she is a cartoon artist.

	Quote:	Caviarchips
	There has been some absolute cr@p posted on this thread since I last logged in, but this is the only bit that motivated me to respond. I think that for somebody to have the balls to say "That offends me" and risk the resultant accusations of sensitivity, and to argue her corner with passion and without lapsing once into personal attack shows courage, not playing a victim. That's insulting and unnecessary. And for what its worth, I'm a non-Muslim English guy and I was a bit surprised that it was allowed to stay in a multicultural forum. You can't really explain why something offends, you just know when it does. So your forensic questions on each point are a bit redundant. So disagree with her, argue with her, challenge her, but I think that your comments are without foundation and are grandstanding & patronising

[sun&rain]

	Quote:	PaddyG
	The mind boggles....

Is there a version for men too?

[grumpygit]

	Quote:	Zuger
	Thats right guys, she can have freedom of speech.......... Unless of course she is a cartoon artist.

Sorry mate, I missed the point

[Caviarchips]

	Quote:	Zuger
	Thats right guys, she can have freedom of speech.......... Unless of course she is a cartoon artist.

That's not what I said....that's more shameless "playing to the crowd".

I objected to her being called a coward for standing up and being counted. I think that shows courage, that's all.

	Quote:	grumpygit
	Sorry mate, I missed the point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy



An axe-wielding Somali extremist broke into the home of Kurt Westergaard on Friday night as the 75-year-old cartoonist was looking after Stephanie, his five-year-old granddaughter.

Westergaard, whose little ink drawing of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban sparked riots throughout the Middle East in 2006, has received numerous death threats. He pressed an alarm button to summon police when the attacker entered the house in Aarhus, Denmark’s second city, by breaking a window.

He did not have time to collect the child from the living room before locking himself into a “panic room”, a specially fortified bathroom. He said the assailant had shouted “swear words, really crude words” and shrieked about “blood” and “revenge”, as he smashed the axe in vain against the bathroom door.

Man shot at Muhammad cartoonist's home
Danish imams relent on Muhammad cartoons
“I feared for my grandchild,” he told Jyllands-Posten, the newspaper that had commissioned the cartoon. “But she did great. I knew that he wouldn’t do anything to her.” He went on: “It was close, really close. But we did it.”

[grumpygit]

	Quote:	Zuger
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy

Dude, thats f"cked up and not worth anything. A simple argument about choice of avatar is fine, bringing that slime politics of one individual who knew exactly what he was doing, igniting hatred within communities and then retreating behind his state paid umbrella whilst many others paid the price for his "insistence of free speech" is in very bad taste.
The very act to make such a statement invoking ones right to free speech and hiding away when the fall out occurs annoys me to my core. If you want to be brave enough and stand up for your beliefs, then thats fine. To run away and hide after lighting the blue touch paper for me is a coward. If you are defending that tossers actions then its up yours.
and the slimebag was confident his eight year old would face off an axe wielding terrorist whilst he hid in his panic room paid for by the state -big man huh?

So why on earth bring it here on EF? For what purpose? Why drag up this old story a couple of days before Eid-Al Frith?

Doesn't bother me. I learnt a long time ago that religion just means trouble- when I was a child even between Christian groups (my dad was a Catholic, but mum a divorced Protestant - you'd never believe what **** they went through - same with my sil's family in Northern Ireland!). My OH comes from a Anglican/Dutch Reformed Church and Islam - not a particularly comfortable situation in Apartheid torn SA in the late 40s). I have friends and family from most religious groups in the world, and I respect their beliefs (wish they'd a bit more respect for my agnosticism and secular moral framework, but ...).

[CorsebouTheReturn]

	Quote:	Caviarchips
	There has been some absolute cr@p posted on this thread since I last logged in, but this is the only bit that motivated me to respond. I think that for somebody to have the balls to say "That offends me" and risk the resultant accusations of sensitivity, and to argue her corner with passion and without lapsing once into personal attack shows courage, not playing a victim. That's insulting and unnecessary. And for what its worth, I'm a non-Muslim English guy and I was a bit surprised that it was allowed to stay in a multicultural forum. You can't really explain why something offends, you just know when it does. So your forensic questions on each point are a bit redundant. So disagree with her, argue with her, challenge her, but I think that your comments are without foundation and are grandstanding & patronising

Maybe...
Maybe also "play the victim" was not the proper expression.
I should have said something more like "you chose to focus on the little aspect that offended you. Then you ignored the other aspects and use the only one you selected to draw your own "extremely focused and unjustified" conclusions.

Such as "it's all Islamist who are "targeted"" by that cartoon.


So yes I could described that differently. Fair enough. I admit that.

Can she admit there's more to that cartoon than just an offensive message?

[Nil]

	Quote:	Zuger
	He did not have time to collect the child from the living room before locking himself into a “panic room”, a specially fortified bathroom. He said the assailant had shouted “swear words, really crude words” and shrieked about “blood” and “revenge”, as he smashed the axe in vain against the bathroom door. Man shot at Muhammad cartoonist's home Danish imams relent on Muhammad cartoons “I feared for my grandchild,” he told Jyllands-Posten, the newspaper that had commissioned the cartoon. “But she did great. I knew that he wouldn’t do anything to her.” He went on: “It was close, really close. But we did it.”

He let his grand-daughter exposed to a psychopath to save his own life?



And you try to teach me what with this story?

[CorsebouTheReturn]

	Quote:	Zuger
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy An axe-wielding Somali extremist broke into the home of Kurt Westergaard on Friday night as the 75-year-old cartoonist was looking after Stephanie, his five-year-old granddaughter. Westergaard, whose little ink drawing of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban sparked riots throughout the Middle East in 2006, has received numerous death threats. He pressed an alarm button to summon police when the attacker entered the house in Aarhus, Denmark’s second city, by breaking a window. He did not have time to collect the child from the living room before locking himself into a “panic room”, a specially fortified bathroom. He said the assailant had shouted “swear words, really crude words” and shrieked about “blood” and “revenge”, as he smashed the axe in vain against the bathroom door. Man shot at Muhammad cartoonist's home Danish imams relent on Muhammad cartoons “I feared for my grandchild,” he told Jyllands-Posten, the newspaper that had commissioned the cartoon. “But she did great. I knew that he wouldn’t do anything to her.” He went on: “It was close, really close. But we did it.”

How I interpret that:

the attacker/criminal/potential killer/crazy/ extremist has been offended (or more) by the cartoon.

Then he simply "intended" to show the cartoonist how much it hurt him with that cartoon.

(he was offended, you know... that justify every negative reactions).

[CorsebouTheReturn]

	Quote:	Nil
	He let his grand-daughter exposed to a psychopath to save his own life? And you try to teach me what with this story?

Once again you only chose to talk about what you want.

Very impressive!

Haven't you commented on the other aspects of the cartoon?

You are completely sexist.

I am terribly offended because the cartoonist has represented the terrorist with a bomb by a male character.

it's offending all innocent male in the world because women can also be terrorist.

See?

[grumpygit]

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	How I interpret that: the attacker/criminal/potential killer/crazy/ extremist has been offended (or more) by the cartoon. Then he simply "intended" to show the cartoonist how much it hurt him with that cartoon. (he was offended, you know... that justify every negative reactions).

No mate, here is the translation
Some extremist mullah put a fatwah on the tossers life (as the tosser well expected to happen) and this deluded individual who had nothing better to do, followed the isntruction s of his immam in fulfilling the deed.

[Nil]

	Quote:
	So why on earth bring it here on EF? For what purpose? Doesn't bother me. I learnt a long time ago that religion just means trouble- when I was a child even between Christian groups (my dad was a Catholic, but mum a divorced Protestant - you'd never believe what **** they went through). I have friends and family from most religious groups in the world, and I respect their beliefs (wish they'd a bit more respect for my agnosticism and secular moral framework, but ...).

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	Maybe... Maybe also "play the victim" was not the proper expression. I should have said something more like "you chose to focus on the little aspect that offended you. Then you ignored the other aspects and use the only one you selected to draw your own "extremely focused and unjustified" conclusions. Such as "it's all Islamist who are "targeted"" by that cartoon. So yes I could described that differently. Fair enough. I admit that. Can she admit there's more to that cartoon than just an offensive message?

Ok read back on this thread all the posts made by Zuger. Now, please tell me, honestly that you don't see any relation between his avatar and his posts on this thread.

Please, tell me, that you trully believe he didn't have any intention, any agenda beside just a naive amusement of this caricature.

So Yes, there is definitely more to that cartoon than just an offensive message, it has also a messages from the one who used this cartoon here.

Look back and read them please.

Found this interesting.

http://reason.com/archives/2006/02/0...es-to-muhammad

"There isn't a single dictatorship in the Muslim world that isn't solicitous of the religious beliefs of its own population, that doesn't dish out harsh punishments for offenses against Islamic, and sometimes even Christian and Jewish, religious sensibilities.

Religious respect, in other words, becomes another form of oppression. If that's the kind of respect freedom-minded Muslims can expect from the West, they're better off getting insulted."

[Nil]

	Quote:	Cata1yst
	Found this interesting. http://reason.com/archives/2006/02/0...es-to-muhammad "There isn't a single dictatorship in the Muslim world that isn't solicitous of the religious beliefs of its own population, that doesn't dish out harsh punishments for offenses against Islamic, and sometimes even Christian and Jewish, religious sensibilities. Religious respect, in other words, becomes another form of oppression. If that's the kind of respect freedom-minded Muslims can expect from the West, they're better off getting insulted."

Oh, oh ok, since they say so, it must be true, let's do that then!

Why, tell me why I am not surprise than that thread became an other super opportunity to bash believers and religion (Islam)