Avatars

[Caviarchips]

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	So yes I could described that differently. Fair enough. I admit that. Can she admit there's more to that cartoon than just an offensive message?

Appreciate the public retraction....it means that you have bllocks and don't just talk them

I wouldn't dream of speaking for NIL....but there is a "weakest link" principle at play when it comes to offense eg - if I find one scene in a movie offensive, I don't report the movie as being 95% offensive, it either is or it isn't.

Through my eyes, there maybe is more interpretation to the picture than the obvious one.....there are many ways of explaining it and you have found some valid points. It doesn't make it less offensive to person A that person B is ok with it though....Arguably, if you need to hunt for the subtle mitigating points, they won't make up for the first impression.

Anyway, for me the thread has run its course because it is really difficult to get consensus on such a difficult and emotive topic, so I'll dive out now. I just felt more uncomfortable with the slight bullying tendency that was happening and needed to say my bit

[Upthehatters2008]

Intent is everything...

But its illegal to have a cartoon of some one? So youre telling me it should be illegal?

I used that picture because it is funny. And its funny that some one would take it personal. I took it down because some one else didnt think it was funny.

But now that this discussion has veered onto a different road it came up that she was brave to make an ENTIRE thread to get attention because she wanted to complain about something. Like I said before, she could have PM'd me. I took it down when I found out people were hurt over it.

NOW Grumpygrit asks why I brought up cartoon artists. I answer. And He's upset.

I stand by the fact that its a funny picture. How do you know its Mohammed?

Its a guy with a bomb on his head. That could be a picture of any one of a number of guys in Pakistan.

	Quote:	grumpygit
	Dude, thats f"cked up and not worth anything. A simple argument about choice of avatar is fine, bringing that slime politics of one individual who knew exactly what he was doing, igniting hatred within communities and then retreating behind his state paid umbrella whilst many others paid the price for his "insistence of free speech" is in very bad taste. The very act to make such a statement invoking ones right to free speech and hiding away when the fall out occurs annoys me to my core. If you want to be brave enough and stand up for your beliefs, then thats fine. To run away and hide after lighting the blue touch paper for me is a coward. If you are defending that tossers actions then its up yours. and the slimebag was confident his eight year old would face off an axe wielding terrorist whilst he hid in his panic room paid for by the state -big man huh?

	Quote:	Nil
	Oh, oh ok, since they say so, it must be true, let's do that then! Why, tell me why I am not surprise than that thread became an other super opportunity to bash believers and religion (Islam)

Hey I'll bash any religion you choose, pick one. I thought it was written well and on topic but hey who am I to talk? I'm trying to reason with the nutters on this thread, nevermind eh..

I follow this guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[CorsebouTheReturn]

	Quote:	Nil
	Oh, oh ok, since they say so, it must be true, let's do that then! Why, tell me why I am not surprise than that thread became an other super opportunity to bash believers and religion (Islam)

And to bash poor interpreters, poor shocked victims, poor easily offended people, and poor people who can't focus on other aspect of a cartoon.


That's better description of that thread.

[grumpygit]

	Quote:	Cata1yst
	Found this interesting. http://reason.com/archives/2006/02/0...es-to-muhammad "There isn't a single dictatorship in the Muslim world that isn't solicitous of the religious beliefs of its own population, that doesn't dish out harsh punishments for offenses against Islamic, and sometimes even Christian and Jewish, religious sensibilities. Religious respect, in other words, becomes another form of oppression. If that's the kind of respect freedom-minded Muslims can expect from the West, they're better off getting insulted."

What about the "quran burning " Terry Jones? When it comes to free speech, in the heart of the so said largest democracy on this planet, this lunatic is capable of igniting more hatred simply by doing what he says is free speech. These ,similarly to the use of an "innocent" avatar, show better the incidious hatred within societies that purport to enjoy freedom of speech.
That is why this thread should be wound up now, because I think it has been proven beyond doubt that there was a much more bad intentioned reason for the avatar that Nil complained about, even though it has been aggressively defended, but probably for a mistaken belief that it was an innocent bit of fun.

[Caviarchips]

	Quote:	Zuger
	she was brave to make an ENTIRE thread to get attention

WTF has that got to do with it? I made an entire thread about a snooker referee nobody had heard of, and there is one about bras here somewhere that has more coverage than this one!

Its a big thread because its relevant, interesting, topical and people have stuff to say. Stop being such a drama queen and man up to the criticism

[Nil]

	Quote:	Zuger
	wtf is juice!!!!!

	Quote:	Zuger
	Why didnt you just PM me and ask? Ive had 10 people PM me this morning telling me my life is in danger...... Id have changed it earlier had you simply written me a note.

	Quote:	Zuger
	So if we had some members of the KKK on the EF and they took offense at the fact I have a black person on my Avatar, should I change it?

	Quote:	Zuger
	Youre right, muslims dont kill or scare anyone who..... wait a minute

	Quote:	Zuger
	Could be worse, you could live in a Muslim country, where females dont have the right to speak out against us infidels. http://retardzone.com/2008/09/05/com...-saudi-arabia/

	Quote:	Zuger
	I thought it was an advertisement for Kenny Rogers Roaster when I first saw it.

	Quote:	Zuger
	Thats right guys, she can have freedom of speech.......... Unless of course she is a cartoon artist.

	Quote:	Zuger
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy An axe-wielding Somali extremist broke into the home of Kurt Westergaard on Friday night as the 75-year-old cartoonist was looking after Stephanie, his five-year-old granddaughter. Westergaard, whose little ink drawing of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban sparked riots throughout the Middle East in 2006, has received numerous death threats. He pressed an alarm button to summon police when the attacker entered the house in Aarhus, Denmark’s second city, by breaking a window. He did not have time to collect the child from the living room before locking himself into a “panic room”, a specially fortified bathroom. He said the assailant had shouted “swear words, really crude words” and shrieked about “blood” and “revenge”, as he smashed the axe in vain against the bathroom door. Man shot at Muhammad cartoonist's home Danish imams relent on Muhammad cartoons “I feared for my grandchild,” he told Jyllands-Posten, the newspaper that had commissioned the cartoon. “But she did great. I knew that he wouldn’t do anything to her.” He went on: “It was close, really close. But we did it.”

I'll help you out here.

	Quote:	Nil
	Ok read back on this thread all the posts made by Zuger. Now, please tell me, honestly that you don't see any relation between his avatar and his posts on this thread.

Nil, You created this entire thread...... How can you blame me for this if I had the avatar before you had this thread?

You didnt want the avatar gone. You wanted to create a scene and make everyone think Zuger is a horrible person. If you really wanted the Avatar gone you would have asked me to get rid of it.

Now youre telling me this thread was for me to prove some point? If I wanted to prove a point I would have started my own thread.

[grumpygit]

	Quote:	Zuger
	But its illegal to have a cartoon of some one? So youre telling me it should be illegal? I used that picture because it is funny. And its funny that some one would take it personal. I took it down because some one else didnt think it was funny. But now that this discussion has veered onto a different road it came up that she was brave to make an ENTIRE thread to get attention because she wanted to complain about something. Like I said before, she could have PM'd me. I took it down when I found out people were hurt over it. NOW Grumpygrit asks why I brought up cartoon artists. I answer. And He's upset. I stand by the fact that its a funny picture. How do you know its Mohammed? Its a guy with a bomb on his head. That could be a picture of any one of a number of guys in Pakistan.

Zuger, I hate to be treated as an idiot so I shall instead assume I must have misunderstood. If you used the example of the danish cartoonist to explain your avatar, then you must expect the less intelligent to assume thats what you had in mind.

[PaddyG]

Can we go back to talking about penis-shaped lipstick please? If you don't, I will make it my avatar.

[grumpygit]

	Quote:	PaddyG
	Can we go back to talking about penis-shaped lipstick please? If you don't, I will make it my avatar.

Perv

[CorsebouTheReturn]

Exactly she created the entire thread and selecting a list of replies to show her view.

That's not right and terrible focused view.


The guy reacted to the fact that you are ignoring other aspects. You are even ignoring the essential fact: the motivation behind the guy's choice to put that "bomb head avatar". But you created the reasons and ignore every thing that was said.

[Nil]

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	And to bash poor interpreters, poor shocked victims, poor easily offended people, and poor people who can't focus on other aspect of a cartoon. That's better description of that thread.

I won't follow you on the insults level. You do better then me to prove my point!

	Quote:	Zuger
	Nil, You created this entire thread...... How can you blame me for this if I had the avatar before you had this thread? You didnt want the avatar gone. You wanted to create a scene and make everything think Zuger is a horrible person. If you really wanted the Avatar gone you would have asked me to get rid of it. Now youre telling me this thread was for me to prove some point? If I wanted to prove a point I would have started my own thread.

Now you are playing the Drama Queen. I never ask to creat a scene, read back where it became off-topic. I never insulted anyone nor attacked anyone. I asked a question, I mention an avatar I wanted and which got deleted and I mention your avatar that I didn't like and found offending.

If people got mad at you because of your avatar, it is your own fault! YOU are the one who put it there, so assume what ever come with it, bad comments, good comments.

Or are you doing what your caricaturist did?

[grynch]

	Quote:	PaddyG
	Can we go back to talking about penis-shaped lipstick please? If you don't, I will make it my avatar.

Paddy, I'm starting to worry about you mate... first the tutu.. now the lipstick.

you do know that in certain unnamed countries you would be beheaded for such deviant behavior

or at least have your pee pee whacked

Quote of the day (well I think so)

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Stephen F. Roberts

	Quote:	Nil
	If people got mad at you because of your avatar, it is your own fault! YOU are the one who put it there, so assume what ever come with it, bad comments, good comments. Or are you doing what your caricaturist did?

You were the only one mad at me....

[CorsebouTheReturn]

	Quote:	grumpygit
	Zuger, I hate to be treated as an idiot so I shall instead assume I must have misunderstood. If you used the example of the danish cartoonist to explain your avatar, then you must expect the less intelligent to assume thats what you had in mind.

I am the first to have used that example.

I used it along with the comment "I wanted to show them how it hurts to be hurt" made by the 1st guy who could only see the cartoon as an attack toward muslims.

I mocked that because he justified "putting a jesus image" and trying to show other "how it hurts to be hurt".

So I said that maybe the "nutter/criminal/whatever" who tried to kill the cartoons artist wanted to "show him how it hurts".


But I understand if you only see a part of the topic, you miss the conversation.


So I could say that any close minded people or rude people can say " you" because that's the expression they could use.
.
.
.
.
." you". You see if you start to "select" from my last sentence you can see I said " you".
Why did I insult you???? Or did I insult you, really?

It's very unfair and stupid thinking to short select what one said and put it out of context.


Anyway it seems difficult to reason with people who can't even interpret a cartoon...

[grumpygit]

	Quote:	Cata1yst
	Quote of the day (well I think so) I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. Stephen F. Roberts

Sorry, youre a bit wrong there on one point. I don`t think its ever been disputed that there is only one God.

The only question is whether its theirs or ours!

[grynch]

	Quote:	grumpygit
	Sorry, youre a bit wrong there on one point. I don`t think its ever been disputed that there is only one God. The only question is whether its theirs or ours!

My prophet can beat up their prophet