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  #21  
Old 30.09.2011, 08:48
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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There was a post last night in which somebody I usually respect used a word I find offensive. Interestingly, that same word was used last month by another poster who I also find balanced, intelligent and readable

On both occasions, I reacted on the thread saying I was surprised the word was a. Used and b. Still there.

My question is.....what is the correct thing to do on THIS forum when people use words we don't like? I think it reflects badly on us that these words are allowed to remain. When one googles anything to do with Switzerland, we are often the first, second and third options, so what we write here is very public.

I would hope that the Mods would filter and remove, but on neither occasion did they. A public spat seems unseemly if the person noted the complaint and reacted without changing it, entrenching the opinion by pushing harder. The red triangle feels over the top, and a PM seems like one is doing a Mods job by proxy.

I would hope...and this is what i have done in the past....that when we post something to which somebody reacts and says that this WORD is offensive, that we change it. Not if its crucial to the argument or the meaning, but if it is just a bad choice of word which is culturally insensitive, why can't we self-mod and apologise and move on?
What word are we talking about here?
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  #22  
Old 30.09.2011, 08:49
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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What word are we talking about here?
retard, retard....





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  #23  
Old 30.09.2011, 08:52
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

This has been an issue discussed at length by the moderation team. Some time back, a majoriy of mods felt unaffected by profanity and offensive terms and an unofficial ruling was made that we should ignore such language; "we're all adults (not true, children use EF too), we can ignore anything we don't like" was the recurring theme. The "nanny filter" was tweaked to allow most profanity and other shit (see?).

I disagree with that sentiment. I find the use of offensive language reflects very poorly on the writer, who appears incapable of finding the appropriate term, and on EF in general. While I'd like to sit back and think that such language only makes the writer look foolish, unfortunately that's not the extent of it.

What to do about it? The mods don't have the time to filter every post, even if that policy had the blessing of 'The Management'. If the collective attitude of EFers were against the use of offensive language, they could comment in threads that use objectionable terms and things would change; sadly, I don't think that's the case.

Intelligent English, R.I.P.
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  #24  
Old 30.09.2011, 08:55
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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I think we also must remember that not everyone has English as their first language, not everyone is as intelligent as you, me and DB and some people are trolls or make mistakes.

The more you make of something, the more it becomes. There's too much on the Internet for it to stick out like a sore thumb, in my opinion.
Great post....this is more what I wanted to get at and you helped.

If somebody makes a mistake, but we ignore it....is that OK?

An example - about ten years ago I used the word "twat" in an open office in the south of England. Where I come from - in the north - that word is pretty light swear word, you wouldn't say it to your mum, but ok in mixed company. However, one lady from another part of England looked really shocked and explained to me that in Liverpool (apparently) that word is more offensive that the c-word! I had no idea and I have been careful ever since.

Should she have ignored it because I made a mistake and allowed me to repeat the mistake for ever? I don't think so and I'm grateful she told me.

(PS apologies if that word IS offensive to anybody here.....I kind of needed to use it in the context of the story and if I'd written tw*t, you'd have wondered about getting upset about calling somebody a twit! )
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  #25  
Old 30.09.2011, 08:55
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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Like your avatar?
Similar but not quite. It happens to be the name of a beer from the Northumberland Brewery, and obviously is an implied Spoonerism.

But as I post on many different threads sometimes with a sensible head on, it would be inappropriate to have a directly offensive avatar for all to see, although it's "meaning" is also clear.

But when I feel it appropriate to use a word that some way find offensive, I usually don't try to disguise it.
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  #26  
Old 30.09.2011, 08:58
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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What word are we talking about here?
Well....I actually didn't really want to talk about any particular word....but I am struggling, Canute-like, to keep the thread to the principle instead of the specific

I'm about to give up
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  #27  
Old 30.09.2011, 08:59
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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(not true, children use EF too)
Parents should not let them surf unguided then. Use filters? Better still be a fly on the wall and hear the words they use at school.
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  #28  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:01
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

I ain't come here to do me no education. Y'all know what am sayin'?

I gets here to have my kicks and make merry. You lissen to me now?

I be using dem words what we be talkin' on da streets, in ma 'hood. It be yo problem if you no can handle da heat.....
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  #29  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:02
KB88111
 
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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retard, retard....





I quote my post as a person with green dots, few groans and confirm that I can make a humorous play on words with a couple of smilies and manage to get thanks for such a post.

Proof that it's not in the words but the underlying message and intention?
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  #30  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:03
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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I quote my post as a person with green dots, few groans and confirm that I can make a humorous play on words with a couple of smilies and manage to get thanks for such a post.

Proof that it's not in the words but the underlying message and intention?
Crawler.....
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  #31  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:05
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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Crawler.....
to whom or what am I crawling? To LiB?

Nah, it's simply proof that it's in the coding and decoding.
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  #32  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:05
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

Let me try this another way:

In relationships, if someone is hurt by something, it is important that they communicate it respectfully. Ignoring it will damage the relationship. If not communicated, it will either keep happening or resentment will grow.

After the person brings it up, the other person will either:
a) try to understand and be open to, at minimum, have a discussion (note I didn't use the word "agree") or
b) not care and continue on (or get defensive and take a jab at you).

The former are the people I hold dear, and the latter are those I keep at a distance. When people don't care, they will face the consequences of poor empathy skills in the rest of their lives anyways and miss the opportunity for growth.

So for me, the answer to your question is to communicate it respectfully, and try to start a discussion. Either by PM or on the forum if you're comfortable with it. Then after that, it's about setting personal boundaries and deciding who's voices you value.
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  #33  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:07
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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I quote my post as a person with green dots, few groans and confirm that I can make a humorous play on words with a couple of smilies and manage to get thanks for such a post.

Proof that it's not in the words but the underlying message and intention?
Just because you think you can, doesn't mean its proof that people didn't find it offensive though?
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  #34  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:12
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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Just because you think you can, doesn't mean its proof that people didn't find it offensive though?
If a tree falls in the woods and no-one is around, does it make a noise?

What I truly learned from that post is
a) I may have a stalker-fan
b) LiB may or may not have found it offensive
c) No groans have been made on that post

In all honesty, if people stopped to consider if their post might offend someone, EF would become:
- much quieter
- a friendlier place
- less attractive to many
- ......
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  #35  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:14
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

and more attractive to many
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  #36  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:16
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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There was a post last night in which somebody I usually respect used a word I find offensive. Interestingly, that same word was used last month by another poster who I also find balanced, intelligent and readable

On both occasions, I reacted on the thread saying I was surprised the word was a. Used and b. Still there.

My question is.....what is the correct thing to do on THIS forum when people use words we don't like? I think it reflects badly on us that these words are allowed to remain. When one googles anything to do with Switzerland, we are often the first, second and third options, so what we write here is very public.

I would hope that the Mods would filter and remove, but on neither occasion did they. A public spat seems unseemly if the person noted the complaint and reacted without changing it, entrenching the opinion by pushing harder. The red triangle feels over the top, and a PM seems like one is doing a Mods job by proxy.

I would hope...and this is what i have done in the past....that when we post something to which somebody reacts and says that this WORD is offensive, that we change it. Not if its crucial to the argument or the meaning, but if it is just a bad choice of word which is culturally insensitive, why can't we self-mod and apologise and move on?
I'm going to pick up on the point in bold. The fact of the matter is that we're not here to be the moral compass of everybody who uses this forum. We're basically here as housekeepers. Should I happen to come across a word that I personally find offensive, does that give me the automatic right to pile in and remove said said word based on my own principles? I think not. Of course there are certain words that have such a negative connotation that they will be removed, but other than that I think there should be a certain amount of leeway for people to express themselves, within reason.

If any of you come across a word that you find offensive then feel free to report the post, although be aware that just because a post is reported doesn't necessarily mean that we'll do anything about it, unless the word is generally accepted to be a complete no no, and from my point of view the word "retard" is not a complete no no regardless of how I personally feel about the word. Another mod however may think so and take action. Remember that mods are members and therefore people so we may not always be consistent with one another.

From a personal point of view I grew up in the un-PC 70's so it would be difficult to find a word that I would actually find offensive, but I try to remain aware of what others may find offensive.
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  #37  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:17
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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and more attractive to many
[think I got that with the friendlier place bit ]
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  #38  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:17
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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If a tree falls in the woods and no-one is around, does it make a noise?
I love that phrase



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a) I may have a stalker-fan
Please confirm or deny that your avatar is actually you.

If it is, then you now have 2 stalker-fans


cheers
SC
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  #39  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:18
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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If a tree falls in the woods and no-one is around, does it make a noise?

c) No groans have been made on that post

In all honesty, if people stopped to consider if their post might offend someone,
Yes, of course trees do (I've never understood that)

I considered it, but I don't groan

Don't you always consider if what you post is offensive? I do...its just normal filter behaviour for social interaction, no?
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  #40  
Old 30.09.2011, 09:20
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Re: EFtiquette - What to do when we find words offensive?

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[think I got that with the friendlier place bit ]
Sorry, I interpreted that wrong. This subject may be a bit too close to my heart.
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