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  #181  
Old 03.10.2011, 23:58
Ittigen
 
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Re: List of the self-deleted

Quote:
Yes, everybody. The "Edit" & "Delete" buttons disappear from posts after a certain period of time (I'm not sure how long).

Please don't delete posts. It disrupts the flow of threads and mods have banned members in the past for doing so. Not that that sanction carries much weight any more, now that one can ban oneself. (Is this a good time to mention MiniMia, too?)
Is anybody else receiving such treatment?

P.S. These buttons did not age and disappear, they disappeared during my deleting!
  #182  
Old 03.10.2011, 23:58
economisto
 
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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For instance: I posted my photograph I took of my grandchildren dancing around a maypole. If some pervert alters that image, which is quite easy to do, then it is still my name on that photo, and I wish to have the right to delete it

(Which at the moment I am unable to, Competition: Post your most beautiful spring photo post number 66)
That image isn't hosted locally on the EF but on a third party server. Thus, in this case, I don't believe anything has changed regarding your rights over the image.
  #183  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:02
Ittigen
 
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Common sense check please.
Premise: Copyright lies with the creator ("author") of IP, unless the author allows somebody else to use whatever has been created, or unless that work is published.
Premise: "Asterix in Switzerland" by R. Goscinny & A. Uderzo has been published.
Conclusion: Copyright no longer lies with R. Goscinny (well his estate - R.I.P.) and A. Uderzo. Hey! I'm free to reprint at will! Oh wait...

Conclusion^2: Whether a work has been published or not is immaterial in determining who owns the copyright.
Untrue, the copyright remains with the creator. You may view, but copying and using it for yourself is stealing.

Last edited by Ittigen; 04.10.2011 at 00:14.
  #184  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:13
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Re: List of the self-deleted

Actually, the bit that might yet have me pulling the chain, are a couple of bits I didn't see anyone mention yet...

Quote:
Terms of use
...
By entering the site and/or becoming a member you agree to be bound by the following terms and conditions:
Quote:
User obligations
You warrant that all content submitted or posted by you to the site does not violate the rights of any third party, including, but not limited to, infringing intellectual property rights.
Quote:
Disclaimer / liability
...
You agree to indemnify THE LOCAL in respect of any liability or any costs, loss of profits, loss of data, or consequential losses arising from a breach by you of any of the terms of this agreement.
  #185  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:16
Ittigen
 
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Re: List of the self-deleted

Thanks, I normally sleep well, but tonight maybe not!

Quote:
New Terms Of Use

Disclaimer / liability
...
You agree to indemnify THE LOCAL in respect of any liability or any costs, loss of profits, loss of data, or
consequential losses arising from a breach by you of any of the terms of this agreement.
  #186  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:18
economisto
 
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Actually, the bit that might yet have me pulling the chain, are a couple of bits I didn't see anyone mention yet...
I wouldn't worry about it. The inclusion of these clauses make the contract void.
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  #187  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:19
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Common sense check please.
Premise: Copyright lies with the creator ("author") of IP, unless the author allows somebody else to use whatever has been created, or unless that work is published.
Premise: "Asterix in Switzerland" by R. Goscinny & A. Uderzo has been published.
Conclusion: Copyright no longer lies with R. Goscinny (well his estate - R.I.P.) and A. Uderzo. Hey! I'm free to reprint at will! Oh wait...

Conclusion^2: Whether a work has been published or not is immaterial in determining who owns the copyright.
Yup, that all makes sense. However, you'll also find works published by named authors with the copyright claimed by and vested in the publisher. Why? I don't know enough about copyright law. (By the way, just because the original author/creator doesn't own the copyright, it doesn't mean that no-one does. It's not open slather out there!)

Here's one random Google result on copyright of internet posts, relating to US law, which tends to support my comments above (in a qualified way!).
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  #188  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:36
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Re: List of the self-deleted

Why are we talking about copyright in the first place? The Local is not claiming copyright on anybody's posts, except presumably its own.

Emphasis mine:
Quote:
User Content
Any content provided by you by, for example, posting messages to bulletin boards or chat forums, uploading files, inputting data, or engaging in any other form of communication through this service, although owned by you, is subject to a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, unrestricted, world-wide licence allowing THE LOCAL to use, copy, sublicense, adapt, transmit, publicly perform or display any such content. This licence does not apply to the message content of your personal messaging (PM) account, the privacy and integrity of which will be respected at all times.

In fact, if anything your IP rights around here have actually improved. Under the old T&Cs, everything you posted went into the public domain. Now it's stated that you retain ownership and merely grant The Local a free-perpetual-worldwide-etc. license to use it. Result, you are still free to go after anyone else who steals your stuff, which you wouldn't have been before.
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  #189  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:43
economisto
 
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Why are we talking about copyright in the first place? The Local is not claiming copyright on anybody's posts, except presumably its own.

Emphasis mine:



In fact, if anything your IP rights around here have actually improved. Under the old T&Cs, everything you posted went into the public domain. Now it's stated that you retain ownership and merely grant The Local a free-perpetual-worldwide-etc. license to use it. Result, you are still free to go after anyone else who steals your stuff, which you wouldn't have been before.
Frederick son, you may keep your wonderful collection of gold coins. You own them. They're yours. But you grant me and my affiliated companies that you are unaware of, the license to take them anywhere in the world and use them forever and this right cannot be revoked by you and shall not expire. While I can make money from your gold coins, if I find that, during the course of profiting from your coins that any of these gold coins were stolen or are fake, you agree to indemnify me without limit against all loss. I'm taking your coins to a museum and charging people to look at them. They better all be real Feddy seriously, or you're going to owe the British Museum a lot of money!

Or you can leave now....
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  #190  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:46
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Why are we talking about copyright in the first place?
I dunno. It's all my fault, probably.

Can I go and click my link now?
  #191  
Old 04.10.2011, 00:53
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Re: List of the self-deleted

...soooo, if people own their own content AND by posting they agree to indemnify The Local and pay all its court costs forever and ever, does this mean we can stop censoring all mention of D*V*** & co.?

Just thinking out loud, like.
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  #192  
Old 04.10.2011, 01:00
economisto
 
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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...soooo, if people own their own content AND by posting they agree to indemnify The Local and pay all its court costs forever and ever, does this mean we can stop censoring all mention of D*V*** & co.?

Just thinking out loud, like.
If the contract were in any way legal, then sure. However the contract was written by a group of lawyers with enough mescaline in their systems to kill a small rhino* so, you know, probably not.

*not in fact true.

Edit:

The other thing is, who are the parties to this contract? Economisto isn't actually a real person. A persona can't be a useful party to a contract without being linked to a legal entity. So the Local would need to know who we all were and where we lived etc. It's all so insane.
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  #193  
Old 04.10.2011, 01:25
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Re: List of the self-deleted

When I joined the forum a long time ago in a galaxy far away it was a happy utopia based on the free sharing principle. I liked it. I loved that business and work were outside and the EF was a giant playground.
Now with the Death Star looming over us and the first victims, I feel like we have collectively lost our innocence. I was reminded of Monty Python’s line: There’s no place for sentiment in big business.
There’s one thing I’m sure of, though. If The Local really decides to use the content of this forum for business purposes, it (IT – I just can’t write THEY because IT does not feel human to me) will shoot itself in the knee. It will be precisely like taking articles from 20 Minuten, translating them into broken English, depersonalizing them to the maximum and feeding the pale ghosts to the public. The forum is alive thanks to it has warmth and immediacy of interaction. Taking a post out of its natural environment and publishing it outside will be like ripping a plant out and leaving it to dry.
  #194  
Old 04.10.2011, 06:51
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Re: List of the self-deleted

Oooooh a gaggle of mods together
  #195  
Old 04.10.2011, 08:19
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Ok, but really.... Property of what? Tips on how to live in Switzerland? Bunch of informations mixed with lots of bla bla and jokes?

Maybe Ittigen can answer me, but what is on this forum that is so important to keep total ownership on?

Will it really make a difference? Will it really change something? Do you really thing they will take stuff you wrote to do..... what?
Say, for example, an EF member at some time in the future decides to write a book about their experiences in this country and it gets to the publishing stage..... the publisher all of a sudden finds that the author has already given legal right to a company in Sweden to copy and share some of the stories that the author may have posted on EF to their affiliates for financial gain or, after publishing, an affiliate company of The Local pops up and reports that some of these stories have already been published, used or shared by them.

It could get a bit messy no?


Quote:
Intellectual property? Intellectual property? On the English Forum?

Where's that, then?
Ask Uncle Bertrand? (I think you know what I mean)

Seriously, for a Media company The Local and Editor Bob have absolutely no idea. Good communication to their customers should really come naturally to them but instead of making their customers feel like they are part of a successful "club", which creates loyalty to the "brand", they come in clumsily and heavy handed and create this furor amongst us and against the brand.

Because of the way we are being alienated, I for one am once again re-thinking weather I really want to be part of this community.

Last edited by grumpygrapefruit; 04.10.2011 at 09:52. Reason: clarity
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  #196  
Old 04.10.2011, 08:32
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Because of the way we are being alienated, I for one am once again re-thinking weather I really want to be part of this community.
I hope you decide that not only isn't it greener, but that there isn't even any grass on the other side....and whilst it may not be perfect, and whilst the parents are maybe not parenting very well at the moment, its still a great place for us kids to hang out and there is no alternative which will be quite the same.

And you will be sorely missed
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  #197  
Old 04.10.2011, 08:39
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Re: List of the self-deleted

GG, please don't go with out telling us.
You are one of the hearts of this forum.
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  #198  
Old 04.10.2011, 08:50
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Re: List of the self-deleted

I'm so glad we're not all facing nuclear annihilation together, the drama and sheer exaggeration and potential fallout (sic) of the event seriously outweighs a few terms and conditions viewers.

May I suggest a new button after the "Thanks" and "Groan" options? How about a "Drama good enough for Jehovah" option?
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  #199  
Old 04.10.2011, 08:57
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Because of the way we are being alienated, I for one am once again re-thinking weather I really want to be part of this community.
Oh no! Don't leave. That'd be like shooting the cheese (or something)*.



This is how the holes in Swiss cheese are made. FACT.
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  #200  
Old 04.10.2011, 09:07
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Re: List of the self-deleted

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Oooooh a gaggle of mods together
It's a flange of mods.
(It's a gaggle of nordic internet entrepreneurs.)
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