Thread split following economisto's removal

	Quote:	Textoch
	I truly hope so, but after viewing the responses to Editor Bob's post I am beginning to wonder if this move may turn out to be the last straw for some, if not many.

The implications in his post is nothing short of libelous IMO

[mirfield]

	Quote:	Nil
	The good news is that for the very first time since this T&C drama, I do now think to press the delete account button. Because if this is the way things are now handle in here, it is not the forum I signed up for.

Woah there. Easy tiger. Lets things pan out before you pull the trigger. We don't wan't you doing things in the heat of the moment too. I hope EB is big enough to do the right thing once he's finished being pissed off.

[Liverbird]

	Quote:	Editor Bob
	[paragraph removed]

I'm sorry but not only is this additional comment completely out of order but has no relevance what so ever

[adrianlondon]

1. Pointing out that publishing a rival forum on here isn't a good idea, is good. However, it hasn't really been done that I've noticed.

2. Pointing out that the rival forum appears to be a copy of this one ... I agree. I had a look at it for a few seconds and it's obviously a rip off of here and that fact annoyed me. However, in reality, it's the posts which make up the content not the layout. But it will and does fragment the expat community here, and I for one don't like that.

3. [paragraph removed] ... that is all so extremely out of order that it makes me want to ignore my reservations in (2) and swap over. It was very unprofessional behaviour, really. It's the childish post one would expect from someone like, oh ... me! But I'm no forum owner.

	Quote:	mirfield
	Woah there. Easy tiger. Lets things pan out before you pull the trigger. We don't wan't you doing things in the heat of the moment too. I hope EB is big enough to do the right thing once he's finished being pissed off.

I think EB may surprise you Mirfield.

[summerrain]

	Quote:	Editor Bob
	I suspect this is not the only issue economisto had with EF, but it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. So in reaction to this he has launched his own rival forum. It is basically a carbon copy of EF, using the same software and the same layout of subforum categories. Members are being poached from EF via the usual back channels. If you haven't yet heard from him, or one of his moderation team, or another follower, either you're not on the invite A-list or you'll be receiving a message soon. Clearly this behaviour is not compatable with being a moderator on this forum. For one it has fragmented what was until recently a stable cohesive moderation team on EF. It is also a very severe breach of the trust he was given. And most importantly, a breach of privacy in that your IP addresses, email address, and other private data can be exported, cross-matched, used, and possibly misused elsewhere. Hence the reason for his removal. It's not something I've done lightly. In fact, it makes me sad. economisto was clearly a great mod on here. His efforts and popularity with most people speaks for itself. And I've met him in person and admired his smarts and charm. Even in the bar I watched as he continued to enthusiastically moderate via his phone. I wish I didn't have to boot him off the team. But he has backed me into a corner and left me no choice. economisto remains a member on EF. He is not banned. So maybe he'll post up his version of the story. One thing to note, however, EF never has, and never will, be used for the promotion of rival forums. So a note to everyone... please respect that one request. [paragraph removed] So there we go. As if yesterday wasn't enough drama already. Sorry about the mess.

Ed Bob, you have been most helpful in helping me reinstate my account a couple of weeks back. However, I think some of your comments above are terribly unjust to economisto - especially with regards to his professional life.

Also to clarify, as a member of the other forum, no one was "poached". Most of us on there know economisto in real life and it was a simple "come check it out". He has never ever told us to choose between that new forum or EF and some of us, like me - who dont have a problem with the way the new T&Cs are being rolled out, still post on both forums - and I intend to do so for both in the future.

I never understood EF's hard stance on competitor forums. A little competition is healthy from time to time, to prevent stagnation and if I may add, arrogance.

Its best to close this thread for the time being before it gets out of hand.

OK. Point taken. Deletion of a certain paragraph coming in a few moments. I'll close the thread while it's being tidied.

EDIT: Tidy complete. Thread re-opened.

[mirfield]

	Quote:	porsch1909
	Economisto is no longer a member at EF.

EF's loss

Can I have his rep?

[Clarejane]

Ok now I don't usually get involved in this type of thing, I have a noisy OH that often drowns me out .

Whilst I appreciate the position of the owners of EF feel they are in, I am a little upset at the way this has been handled. I know I don't count for much, I post only when I feel I have a valid contribution to make and don't get involved in much of the wrangling that goes on here.

There are plenty of other sites that have been running far longer which also include many EF members. Some of them have even been named on EF in recent days. There are many businesses that are advertised and are discussed. Some overtly publicised and others a little more veiled.

As someone that has invited other members to her home for a weekly event, I have to say that Economisto has only ever behaved with the upmost integrity where EF has been concerned. He has not once discussed issues regarding other members whilst being a mod. Even when asked he has always politely declined to comment. I don't expect that would ever change.

Surely we have a freedom of choice here and I don't think suggestion and supposition is the right path to follow.

http://www.englishforum.ch/search.php?searchid=7169332

If I do a search for 'glocals' it comes up with over 500 posts which include glocals in them. 500 is the limit which VBB allow to show IIRC so there must be a lot more.

Why is glocals allowed to be promoted on EF in the open But (the other one) isn't allowed to be sent to some members we know in real life through the PRIVATE messaging system on EF?

If we recommend (the other one) to people in the open is that okay? As long as they aren't 'poached' through the PM system?

I am Spartacus.

The new forum is a direct consequence of a meeting I had with Economisto a couple of weeks ago. We were chatting about the loss of direction at EF, the lack of a clear leader, the cack handed communication, the toleration of all kinds of stuff which would never have been tolerated in 'the old days', and the end result was an email with a link upon which I clicked and found myself in something much closer to my idea of an internet forum than the shambles that EF has become.

I am a minor moderator over there, because I'm crap at this kind of thing, but thought it only fair to offer to help out. It is worth reminding members that I have no moderatorial privileges whatsoever at EF, and never have had, despite what half the banned seem to think. I'm not remotely interested in the backroom stuff here, because the frontroom stuff is entertaining enough, thank you very much.

I have no intention of leaving the EF - I don't see why I should have to, having been a member of several other forums over the years - but this latest turn of events is disappointing, especially the completely unwarranted (un)professional attack in the last paragraph.

The forum wasn't set up as a 'rival' to EF, but rather as an attempt to restore some of the original vision which has clearly been lost over here. A quick glance at the member list over there will tell you all you need to know.

Why both can't coexist alongside the third, more 'chatty', forum is beyond me. To suggest that the new forum was set up with sinister motives is bollocks.

Somewhat ironically, several members of the new forum will be in Zurich this evening at a party. If anyone wants to ask us about it, please feel free. No doubt some of us will be visiting the west and south of Switzerland over the next few weeks, too. We don't want to leave anyone out, after all...

DB, this is exactly it. EF has achieved critical mass but, once again, seems rudderless (or the captain's been on the plonk again). If EB is, as Paul from THE LOCAL say, running this place then his presence needs to be more obvious.

Kudos to EB for removing the bits he removed rather than rant and close. Respect.

I believe both can exist, I am now posting in compliance and full knowledge of the new T&Cs, lucky ol' me.



Edit- if you visit, you'll see that EF has it beaten hands-down for wealth of information. The choice is yours - as previously put, the member of the community makes the community valuable - but the community has to understand and agree with the direction that the owner or responsible has defined.

This is not a recommendation but simply to make people aware of what the "competition" is (or isn't).

[Phil_MCR]

I was late to this thread so have missed the paragraph that seems to have upset a lot of people.

I think this is another prime example of bad communication. If EF had said, that from a conflict of interest perspective, it will not permit the owner/management of a rival forum to be a mod on EF, I would understand that.

It would be clear, understandable, and I think also reasonable. But there's simply no need to go beyond that.

EDIT: who can email/pm me a copy of that last paragraph? sounds like it was a corker!

[MathNut]

I am really unhappy too with the way this has been handled (and will miss eco on the forum. )

Be that as it may... some people have policy questions, I'm still a mod for the time being and so I'll do my best to answer them. Here you go:

-------------------------------------------------------
Our position on the 'other' non-EF forum (the cheesy one) has always been that you are free to mention it in PMs, emails, anywhere else you like - just not on the open forum.

Same with this one.

(We couldn't enforce any other policy anyway, as mods can't read PMs.)

	Quote:	JoanP
	DB, this is exactly it. EF has achieved critical mass but, once again, seems rudderless (or the captain's been on the plonk again). If EB is, as Paul from THE LOCAL say, running this place then his presence needs to be more obvious. Kudos to EB for removing the bits he removed rather than rant and close. Respect. I believe both can exist, I am now posting in compliance and full knowledge of the new T&Cs, lucky ol' me. Edit:- if you visit, you'll see that EF has it beaten hands-down for wealth of information. The choice is yours - as previously put, the member of the community makes the community valuable - but the community has to understand and agree with the direction that the owner or responsible has defined. This is not a recommendation but simply to make people aware of what the "competition" is (or isn't).

Although there isn't a wealth of information there it has 1300 posts in 6 days.

Quality not quantity.

	Quote:	MathNut
	I am really unhappy too with the way this has been handled (and will miss eco on the forum. ) Be that as it may... some people have policy questions, I'm still a mod for the time being and so I'll do my best to answer them. Here you go: ------------------------------------------------------- Our position on the 'other' non-EF forum (the cheesy one) has always been that you are free to mention it in PMs, emails, anywhere else you like - just not on the open forum. Same with this one. (We couldn't enforce any other policy anyway, as mods can't read PMs.)

What about glocals that has been mentioned or linked to over 500 times on EF?

I've just had a look at the Who's Online section over there.

This announcement has done more to increase traffic than anything else over the last week.

Cheers, EB!

	Quote:
	I've just had a look at the Who's Online section over there. This announcement has done more to increase traffic than anything else over the last week. Cheers, EB!

Membership has almost doubled!

[mirfield]

	Quote:	MathNut
	(We couldn't enforce any other policy anyway, as mods can't read PMs.)

There's always the swear filter.

	Quote:	MathNut
	I am really unhappy too with the way this has been handled (and will miss eco on the forum. ) Be that as it may... some people have policy questions, I'm still a mod for the time being and so I'll do my best to answer them. Here you go: ------------------------------------------------------- Our position on the 'other' non-EF forum (the cheesy one) has always been that you are free to mention it in PMs, emails, anywhere else you like - just not on the open forum. Same with this one. (We couldn't enforce any other policy anyway, as mods can't read PMs.)

I respect that you have to adhere to the rules and am happy to help; I assume glocals is also within scope of that position?

http://www.englishforum.ch/search.php?searchid=7169677

So to be clear, www.whatever.ch is not permitted but whatever dot ch would be?