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Old 15.10.2011, 19:02
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Re: Double standards

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..well I've moved one of them as I think you are right but you can't win 'em all. Well I never can, so I don't see why you should.

Supper calls - i.e. Mr Longbyt calls. Adieu
thanks for moving it. It's not about winning but understanding what the policy is, which so far remain unclear (at least to me, and it could have been easily stated by 3 mods in this conv so far). 1 or more mods did look at the thread (including the creator) and yet declined to move.

I have further questions on the topic mimi raised but for now:

enjoy your supper.
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Old 15.10.2011, 19:27
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Re: Double standards

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thanks for moving it. It's not about winning but understanding what the policy is, which so far remain unclear (at least to me, and it could have been easily stated by 3 mods in this conv so far). 1 or more mods did look at the thread (including the creator) and yet declined to move.

I have further questions on the topic mimi raised but for now:

enjoy your supper.
Ok, since I was one of the mods to thank, it was pretty way back, now I am called to report, lemi think:

I genuinely appreciate when observant members either self mod, helps others or suggest something which is reasonable and good, hence the thank.

Usually if there is a colleague who did something, though, I can express the fact I like you noticed, with the thank, but don't challenge colleague's decision until we have time to discuss and then we decide. We can also see there is somebody else already working on the thread.

Things are far to fast, though, to have long lingering debates over a place of thread in indiv subforums. I think this little inconsistency is normal. Mods do as well as they can. We are all often making decisions on our own, pretty much, heavy cases do get discussed, but I think I wouldn't expect members being really upset about not having the thank feature, taking the thread move too personally or creating too much fuss about mods actually being human and thus inconsistent. I woulnd't, at any time, jump into colleague's unfinished thread modding action, though, since it has already created some crazy bugs, hard to fix, and it's unprofessional. Sometimes get get shifted this way into wherever and butchered into pieces. Sometimes some action needs multiple steps and I am on my way out, school/work/french/family/tutoring, every mod has different amount of time to mod, and it's ok. You can always shoot a pm to remind or ask, without considering that there has been some kind of mod conspiracy against members or deliberate inconsistency just to show power.

I personally think both xbox and SP3 belong to OT, cute kids into family, since often family deals with expat kid lingo and development, often it is mixed languages, so I think it's pretty nicely put.

We have rules, a lot of it happens fast and we welcome suggestions. I think reporting posts and some member's self modding actions, too, is the nicest way how to care for our sometimes unruly and funny and completely normal, big community.

I had a thread moved to OT by a colleague it was actually on makeup in CH, I didn't sweat it. It's not worth the drama, or multiple moves, etc. People adjust, without thinking something evil has been done to them.

I think if things get shuffled around (of course they get sometimes forgotten, too sure), it actually shows people are taking care of the community and housekeeping, instead of just merely PR. Things also seem ignored at times, when we decide not to react to reported posts, not for laziness, but I'd say about 20% of the reported posts actually do warrant having some work done on them.

HTH
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  #23  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:39
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Re: Double standards

I disagree. IIRC the DB landmarks thread was in Forum support. There are valid arguments for leaving it there (it has to do with a Forum member and nothing else). I'm not at all bothered about it moving to Off topic, though.

I thanked your post in that thread for its cheeky suggestion that most of DB's posts were off-topic.

"Cute things kids say" is definitely in the right place, in Family matters/health. Last time I checked, kids were fundamental components of families, and yes, the thread is about children in Switzerland. If you don't have any of your own, you'll have to take my word on that.

To answer your rhetorical question, of course we care about misplaced threads. Of course we try to move them into the correct sub-fora. But we can't catch them all.

Do you talk to your co-workers and boss like this at work? Or your family members? Just wondering.
  #24  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:39
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Re: Double standards

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Ok, since I was one of the mod, it was pretty way back, now I am called to report:

I genuinely appreciate when observant members either self mod, helps others or suggest something which is reasonable and good, hence the thank.
Understood, I am not complaining about the thank, other than what it seemed like at the time.


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Usually if there is a colleague who did something, though, I can express the fact I like you noticed, with the thank, but don't challenge colleague's decision until we have time to discuss and then we decide. We can also see there is somebody else already working on the thread.
so this is some sort of first come first serve policy? fair enough, if that is what works for modding

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Things are far to fast, though, to have long lingering debates over a place of thread in indiv subforums. I think this little inconsistency is normal. Mods do as well as they can. We are all often making decisions on our own, pretty much, heavy cases do get discussed, but I think I wouldn't expect members being really upset about not having the thank feature, taking the thread move too personally or creating too much fuss about mods actually being human and thus inconsistent. I woulnd't, at any time, jump into colleague's unfinished thread modding action, though, since it has already created some crazy bugs, hard to fix, and it's unprofessional. Sometimes get get shifted this way into wherever and butchered into pieces.
inconsistencies are normal. Being evasive about an issue or unresponsive is not. Nobody is upset( well except for those who state physical violence as UM said) but as Mimi said, there seems to be a large inconsistency that mods seem unwillingly to accept. wether on their group member creating topics OR deleting posts.


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I personally think both xbox and SP3 belong to OT, cute kids into family, since often family deals with expat kid lingo and development, so I think it's pretty nicely put.
while I disagree, it seems that im not the only one who does disagree with that. whatever. it's very relative as the subject in discussion is NOT kid lingo and development, but cute gems from mini whoever.

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I think if things get shuffled around (of course they get sometimes forgotten, too sure), it actually shows people are taking care of the community and housekeeping, instead of just merely PR. Things also seem ignored at times, when we decide not to react to reported posts, not for laziness, but I'd say about 20% of the reported posts actually do warrant having some work done on them.
to be fair, as off lately i've been pretty quick to report and state on the threads said inconsistencies. action not so much. mods participation included afterwards in said threads.

I guess in the end we can sum up anything in this life as "we are just humans"


thanks for your reply is the closest i've got to an actual answer
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Old 15.10.2011, 19:41
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Re: Double standards

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Do you talk to your co-workers and boss like this at work? Or your family members? Just wondering.
As my job consists of dealing with complaints and fixing things, I have to. it is a requirement to be consistent with ones judgements. so far, no ad hominem attacks where done anywhere in this thread and the questions were perfectly legal.

if that was an attempt at strawman, regarding my behaviour, please be aware that is OT.

the evasiveness of some mod posters and refusal to clearly state things, goes directly to show somewhat of double standard which is what some of the ef members are concerned about.
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Old 15.10.2011, 19:52
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Re: Double standards

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As my job consists of dealing with complaints and fixing things, I have to. it is a requirement to be consistent with ones judgements. so far, no ad hominem attacks where done anywhere in this thread and the questions were perfectly legal.


the evasiveness of some posters and refusal to clearly state things, goes directly to show somewhat of double standard which is what some of the ef members are concerned about.
Neat editing of your post there, just as I was about to reply.

Anyway, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. There is no concerted effort to apply double standards. There is no attempt to favour one group of posters over another. There has been no evasiveness by any moderator, only straight answers.

Yes, we try to move misplaced threads. Help your community by reporting them whenever you see them.

In the time taken to respond to your multiple posts in this thread, I'm sure we could have moved numerous threads to their rightful homes.

Congratulations on making all those posts in this thread using real words. Not a single lolcat in sight.
  #27  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:56
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Re: Double standards

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Neat editing of your post there, just as I was about to reply.

Anyway, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. There is no concerted effort to apply double standards. There is no attempt to favour one group of posters over another. There has been no evasiveness by any moderator, only straight answers.

Yes, we try to move misplaced threads. Help your community by reporting them whenever you see them.

In the time taken to respond to your multiple posts in this thread, I'm sure we could have moved numerous threads to their rightful homes.

Congratulations on making all those posts in this thread using real words. Not a single lolcat in sight.
I needed to edit as it would seem that i was talking of non mods. plus you were awfully close to a strawman argument.

There has been evasiveness… enough to see the amount of times there was talk about thread moving but not about the actual question.

Congratulations in doing a direct answer. I'm sure that if this would have happened in post 6 or 8 of this thread, you could have rightfully moved said threads.
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Old 15.10.2011, 20:03
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Re: Double standards

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Congratulations in doing a direct answer. I'm sure that if this would have happened in post 6 or 8 of this thread, you could have rightfully moved said threads.
Uh, yeah -- actually, it's the same answer I gave in an earlier post, which in turn was my first post after asking you to specify the threads to which you had referred.

You've got your answer. Any more posts in the same vein would be trolling, I'd have thought.
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Old 15.10.2011, 20:14
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Re: Double standards

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Uh, yeah -- actually, it's the same answer I gave in an earlier post, which in turn was my first post after asking you to specify the threads to which you had referred.

You've got your answer. Any more posts in the same vein would be trolling, I'd have thought.
sorry to disagree on your first statement. Unless my explorer is wrong I only see you in posts 6 and 8, back on 23 with your answer to my rethorical question and then on 26 stating about the time it takes to answer my posts

If you see my 24th posts Im clearly stating that mc's answer is the closest I've got, followed by yours at 25th and my further explanation on 26th.

I Agree that further answers would be trolling the posters being members or others. Fortunately, we have the thread to attest to what was said.
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Last edited by Ouchboy; 15.10.2011 at 20:15. Reason: why did i say both. someone is trolling i guess.
  #30  
Old 15.10.2011, 20:19
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Re: Double standards

Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn

The week commencing 10th October shall now be renamed 'kick a mod week'

Seriously what's with the argumentative behaviour at the moment? is it the weather?
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  #31  
Old 15.10.2011, 20:19
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Re: Double standards

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so this is some sort of first come first serve policy? fair enough, if that is what works for modding
It may look like it, and sounds ugly, but due to the huge amount of housekeeping and mod moves that need to be done, yes. If it is an issue that needs more, assembly happens, voices of folks of course, do get taken on board.

People have to make fast decisions, and we do check afterwards, sometimes, to verify if it was consistent. Rules are also interpreted personally, I don't see so many differences really, but we are humans thus inconsistent just like members. Some members help, some don't, some mix it up, sometimes it depends on time. Now, we consistently also update the rules, some older mods will have a different attitude to some issues, than me, for example, I am ok with some banter, since I am in an area where EF is squished by other social network, so baby steps and slow growth, I do like things moving here, including some benign and amusing chitchat.

But we are all learning, too. One of the first lessons I got, do it well and fast, get it off the table. Next.

What could be seem evasive, could be the fact not always a mod has time to get involved into pm pingpong, which sometimes can be very ugly.

Another seeming inconsistency could be, that when a thread is started, the noise is low, then it picks up, sometimes mods don't go over board and completely clean up the thread to make it sterile, but only clean up form the point where it seems the ugly friction started. So, you have a beginning, with some bitching, then it picks up on vulgarisms that I know some users dislike, or they seem unecessary to me, so I clean from there, and it seems like the bitching should have been cleaned too. People usually realize that thread moves, thread clean ups, editing, etc. is not personal, and the private reactions I get are positive and supportive. (thanks )

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to be fair, as off lately i've been pretty quick to report and state on the threads said inconsistencies. action not so much. mods participation included afterwards in said threads.
As I said, what can bee seen as inconsistency, or evasiveness, might be just a decision to not mod that particular bit, to not be too heavy handed, and let the community self police. I do have big faith in intelligence and overall netiquette knowledge of our users.

You can't really summon mods, at all times, expect to have all issues acted upon to the rules you perceive, and have them report to you. I appreciate, and am sure others too, reporting posts, when I am online, checking reporting posts is 1st thing I do, when I see a colleague at it, I leave it. But when things don't get done, it is not because people would be lazy or cared too little for EF. If there is a meeting over an issue, too, it is guaranteed it will take longer.

Rules are here not to penalize members, or give us routine and tiresome work. They evolve, too. I think it would be nice to hear from our community something like "i have thought about this, could it be different, perhaps", instead of "what did you do to me" or "I reported a post nothing got done, explain!"

Also, when things get explained here, mods may get shirty, which is unfortunate, but sometimes it really is a rollercoaster. You guys don't see behind the mass of little things we gotta do, we forget that being a member and having mods around might be a patronizing situation. Face to face situation is easier.

It is always good to communicate. Ask anytime you need to know. Often things get done better in pms, too.
This is not personally towards you, but anyone, really.
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  #32  
Old 15.10.2011, 20:22
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Re: Double standards

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other than making the PS3 look like a crappy system nothing. PS3 thread was moved to off topic, xbox360 was either rightly so in there or moved to, according to mods understanding it seems.
Fixed that for ya

I'm sure I placed the Xbox360 thread it in OT section, although for me it should have gone in Daily Life but what ya gonna do?

Your lucky the PS3 thread wasn't moved to the trash section...still early yet though
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Old 15.10.2011, 20:33
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Re: Double standards

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I don't care when my posts get deleted, but at least have an even approach and do the same for other continuously off topic posts on a thread. "drinks with Paul at the Local" springs to mind.

I know I can go off on a tangent and appreciate that banter is not always needed or wanted and creates work for the mods....

BUT it does leave a bad taste in ones mouth to have posts deleted to then see further banter with other members allowed to continue in the same thread.
Now back "on topic" to mimi1981's complaint about her post deletion.

Mods do have a life outside of the forum. We can't (even if we wanted to) be online 24/7. If I come across a thread with a bunch of off topic posts I try to weed them out, what happens after I walk away from my computer in no way should be referred to as a double standard. Sorry but I refuse to stay glued to my desk waiting for said thread to die out so as to be sure not a single off topic post is ever posted to it.

If I come online at a later date and happen to think about some wayward thread I might go back and double check on it to see if it's staying on topic but there's no guarantee that I'll even have time to look at it because of the other hundred or so Mod actions I'm busy with.

Believe me, we try to do the best job we can BUT we can't be everywhere, every minute of every day to attend to every post on the forum. It's not a double standard, it's just a forum.

Now if you would excuse me I have a couple of spammers to ban before I take a break from this virtual drama world.
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Old 15.10.2011, 20:34
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Re: Double standards

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sorry to disagree on your first statement. Unless my explorer is wrong I only see you in posts 6 and 8, back on 23 with your answer to my rethorical question and then on 26 stating about the time it takes to answer my posts.
So, what you're saying is that after I asked you to specify the threads to which you were referring (posts 6 and 8 -- I had to ask twice before you replied), I then answered your question with my next post (#23), then repeated that answer (with some information given earlier in the thread by vwild1) at post #26. Or, to put it another way:

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Uh, yeah -- actually, it's the same answer I gave in an earlier post, which in turn was my first post after asking you to specify the threads to which you had referred.
So, what is it about my first statement that you disagree with?

  #35  
Old 16.10.2011, 01:45
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Re: Double standards

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So, what you're saying is that after I asked you to specify the threads to which you were referring (posts 6 and 8 -- I had to ask twice before you replied), I then answered your question with my next post (#23), then repeated that answer (with some information given earlier in the thread by vwild1) at post #26. Or, to put it another way:
as i said it was a simple question, an answer like: "we don't have a stance" as it's on a rethorical level should have sufficed. No examples needed be provided, since you were kind enough to answer I did it with you

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So, what is it about my first statement that you disagree with?
perhaps I misunderstood your statement but for me earlier implied 6 and 8 posts not 23.




@ vwild1 : i can take where mimi is coming from as she could easily be typing about messages that were still present in between the ones that got deleted? which could possibly mean that the mod jumped the threads.

you'd have to ask her when she gets back from her real life. perhaps is not a matter of double standard but consistency on your work, regardless of how much time you are in this virtual world.

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Old 16.10.2011, 02:04
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Re: Double standards

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..since you were kind enough to answer I did it with you ..
Get a motel room, you two.........


Heh, I should really delete this post, shouldn't I, in order to be consistent, no derailing, no hijacking, no lascivious anything...wait, what if it is funny. We let some things be, and it really depends. Inconsistency is normal, apart from rules we have our own filters, just like with anything else. Even Swiss with their rules function on the base of justified exceptions.

By the way, pointing things out is really healthy, so we appreciate it, same with reported posts, it makes our housekeeping 100x easier and more constistent, systematic, since we don't have a rota. Debating over this is good, everybody needs feedback, members, mods, everyone. It makes this place better.



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Old 16.10.2011, 07:17
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Re: Double standards

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@ vwild1 : i can take where mimi is coming from as she could easily be typing about messages that were still present in between the ones that got deleted? which could possibly mean that the mod jumped the threads.

you'd have to ask her when she gets back from her real life. perhaps is not a matter of double standard but consistency on your work, regardless of how much time you are in this virtual world.

Now, to me, the phrase "your work" implies that mods are employed to mod on the forum, which would also imply a wage or salary ... afaik, our mods are all volunteers, who sacrifice their own time to help keep this place ticking over and more orderly than it would otherwise be.
Personally, I am grateful that these people donate their time and effort to help manage the forum - without them, there'd be far more spammers for a start!
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Old 16.10.2011, 07:23
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Re: Double standards

Ignoring semantics, it is understood what was meant. We have been fighting for a 10% raise ( from CHF0 )

Not all Mods get to be online together ( we have very different backgrounds and work hours both at real work and on the forum, again not very consistent ).
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Old 16.10.2011, 07:41
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Re: Double standards

There is a lot of modding to be done if the bar of this Forum is to be above a sandpit and sometimes our discretion / free time to manage such burning issues won't satisfy all Users. No apologies there, but please do continue to help us all by reporting posts or threads you feel are inappropriate, as I know you kindly do already via the 'Report Post' facility.

Thanks.
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Old 16.10.2011, 07:43
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Re: Double standards

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please do continue to help us all by reporting posts or threads you feel are inappropriate, as I know you kindly do already via the 'Report Post' facility.

Thanks.
For that, we are thankful as they have indeed assisted us.
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