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View Poll Results: Should the 10 post limit before posting ads be removed?
Yes. Remove all the restrictions 17 21.79%
Yes, but separate ads from the main forum 14 17.95%
No. Leave it as it is. There isn't a problem 41 52.56%
Ban the Market Place and allow commercial ads only 1 1.28%
I have an alternative suggestion (outline in a post) 5 6.41%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 21.08.2013, 17:37
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Time to change the forum rules/structure?

Having just seen a thread from a new member closed and another deleted I think it is time to change the rules or the structure of the forum. I know this has been discussed before but the problem doesn't go away.

Whilst the forum was set up as a place for people to share information, it is clear that there is the wish for it to provide more of an advertising board than at present.

It seems that the moderators spend a fair amount of time advising new members of the rules and enforcing them. This seems to be counter-productive a lot of the time. It either upsets people who could have become valuable members in future, or leads them to making trivial posts just to conform to the guidelines.

I agree that 10 meaningful posts shouldn't be a major problem but it is clear that doesn't seem to be the consensus of many new members.

Just because the forum was set up in this way, doesn't mean that it has to be cast in stone. The forum has evolved over the years in many ways and this could be part of that process.

There seem to be two options to change this:

1. Remove the 10 post limit before posting advertising. This will certainly create a larger market place section. It is easy to set that to 'ignore' if you don't want to see the ads. Hopefully, the new members will be more contented and then contribute in other sections.

2. Possibly a better idea would be to set up a parallel Market Place/Ad Board, linked to EF. This would leave the main forum just for discussion threads etc.

If nothing is done, this will keep on raising its head for years to come.
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Old 21.08.2013, 17:53
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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2. Possibly a better idea would be to set up a parallel Market Place/Ad Board, linked to EF.
I think this is a brilliant idea.
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Old 21.08.2013, 17:58
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

I wonder. How difficult can it be to make 10 posts? And if the new members find it hard, isn't it obvious that they just joined to sell something? Once that's done, we probably won't see them for dust.
For that, there is www.ricardo.ch and www.ebay.ch.
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Old 21.08.2013, 17:58
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

In the few weeks I was a mod, I managed to get the "property available" rules changed so that newbies could post property as I felt it was very valuable. There's a precedent set in that I think jobs offered works the same way.

Once I stopped being a mod, and after the admin tried half-heartedly to change the rules and ended up getting them arse-about-face, the rules were reverted back to what they were before.

In other words, a combination of apathy and not wanting to encroach on the paid-for advertising will see this idea ignored. Pity.
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:01
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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I wonder. How difficult can it be to make 10 posts? And if the new members find it hard, isn't it obvious that they just joined to sell something? Once that's done, we probably won't see them for dust.
For that, there is www.ricardo.ch and www.ebay.ch.
Making 10 posts is easy if you're happy to accept fluff & bollocks, harder otherwise. Plus they need to be a member for a week.

So what if they just want to sell something and leave?

Ricardo and Ebay are auction sites, usually in German or French. It's not the same as selling to expats. I notice that the Facebook group for expats buying and selling stuff in Basel is getting popular, leading to a growth in the Basel event group I admin and the Basel expats group someone else manages (the latter is very popular). So there is a need. I think EF should cater for it, but as more and more people find the FB groups, the need may go away anyway.
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:05
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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Making 10 posts is easy if you're happy to accept fluff & bollocks, harder otherwise. Plus they need to be a member for a week.

So what if they just want to sell something and leave?

Ricardo and Ebay are auction sites, usually in German or French. It's not the same as selling to expats. I notice that the Facebook group for expats buying and selling stuff in Basel is getting very popular, leading to a growth in the Basel event group I admin and the Basel expats group someone else manages (the latter is very popular).
Good point about the language.

The usual bollocks can be endearing. You know what they are doing, you see they cannot come up with anything better, and you think, ahhh, bless....
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:09
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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The usual bollocks can be endearing. You know what they are doing, you see they cannot come up with anything better, and you think, ahhh, bless....
Yes I'm agree!
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:11
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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Yes I'm agree!
hehehe
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:13
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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Yes I'm agree!
Was that on purpose???? Admit it, you are mocking me
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:16
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

Don't agree. I like the EF market place and like the fact that when buying you can read a little about the seller re their posts. I much prefer to buy from someone who has a fair rep on the forum and would think twice about trusting a newbie if they haven't posted beforehand.

We bought a car from an EF member a few years ago. The car was a bargain, is still going strong and the sellers really decent. However, that is not always the case, and I have noticed in the market place a lot of positive criticism re cars and the price.. this of course helps to prevent buyers or newbies being ripped off. The forum and EFers who go to the bother of warning the community in the market place are a decent lot. Placing the market place into a separate site linked to the EF means you cut off the valuable input EFers make and will make it harder to police re dodgy commercial/ private advertising.
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:27
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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I much prefer to buy from someone who has a fair rep on the forum and would think twice about trusting a newbie if they haven't posted beforehand.
I see your point, however and equally, this also limits the available options to existing members.

Reputation as a marketing point is also difficult to assess.
eg. most of my green blobbies are from posting absolute bollocks which has nothing to do with any items I may well be selling.

"Buyer Beware" will always remain paramount importance when purchasing, so a bit of common sense should guide you away from these dodgey newbies.


I personally have greater concern for the "Lowballers" who log on and within 2 posts are offering 10% of the indicated price.
Nothing restricts these people..... but that's the way it goes.
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:38
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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I see your point, however and equally, this also limits the available options to existing members.

Reputation as a marketing point is also difficult to assess.
eg. most of my green blobbies are from posting absolute bollocks which has nothing to do with any items I may well be selling.

"Buyer Beware" will always remain paramount importance when purchasing, so a bit of common sense should guide you away from these dodgey newbies.

I personally have greater concern for the "Lowballers" who log on and within 2 posts are offering 10% of the indicated price.
Nothing restricts these people..... but that's the way it goes.
Yes. Relying on EF reputation as a measure of the trustworthiness of the seller could be a bad move.

All sales should be treated with greater caution than you would if buying from eBay. At least their rep is linked to selling activity alone. If there could be separate rep for the market place that would get round the issue and it would not need to be part of the main forum.
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:41
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

let's face it, people selling an iPhone for 5 francs over what it's worth get beaten up, anyone selling a car gets beaten up, I say open the door and change policy and if it leads to increased admin and mod tasks, it can be switched back and Deep Purple told to piss off.

EF is nothing without the community so the community should have a say.

Back in the day, I'm sure the old mods would have listened.....
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:41
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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I see your point, however and equally, this also limits the available options to existing members.

Reputation as a marketing point is also difficult to assess.
eg. most of my green blobbies are from posting absolute bollocks which has nothing to do with any items I may well be selling.

"Buyer Beware" will always remain paramount importance when purchasing, so a bit of common sense should guide you away from these dodgey newbies.


I personally have greater concern for the "Lowballers" who log on and within 2 posts are offering 10% of the indicated price.
Nothing restricts these people..... but that's the way it goes.
Well, there's bollocks and there's bollocks, and there is no way you write absolute bollocks

It is not only the rep, but the content of posts/ personality of the poster which is easy enough to figure out from having read posts.
Obviously I dont mean all EFers who have rep, it's fairly easy to spot the time wasters and the self absorbed, no?
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Old 21.08.2013, 18:55
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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let's face it, people selling an iPhone for 5 francs over what it's worth get beaten up, anyone selling a car gets beaten up, I say open the door and change policy and if it leads to increased admin and mod tasks, it can be switched back and Deep Purple told to piss off.

EF is nothing without the community so the community should have a say.

Back in the day, I'm sure the old mods would have listened.....
Sounds fair to me

Doing something different has to be worth a try
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Old 21.08.2013, 19:15
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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2. Possibly a better idea would be to set up a parallel Market Place/Ad Board, linked to EF.
We can call it "ricardo.ch"
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Old 21.08.2013, 19:18
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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let's face it, people selling an iPhone for 5 francs over what it's worth get beaten up, anyone selling a car gets beaten up, I say open the door and change policy and if it leads to increased admin and mod tasks, it can be switched back and Deep Purple told to piss off.

EF is nothing without the community so the community should have a say.

Back in the day, I'm sure the old mods would have listened.....
Well, I'm listening and you are having your say, so all's good, right?

Or does listening = agreeing only?

Couple of personal observations....

1. I don't know what the problem is that this fixes? You want to make it easier for people to posts ads here? Why is that an issue for you? Because you want to buy stuff? Because you think the place lacks traffic? To makes mods lives easier? Just not sure I see to what this is a solution? DP....you say "the problem doesn't go away"....what problem?

2. As a member, i like the mix of stuff here.....feels like one third buying and selling, one third useful info exchange and support and one third banter. I like it.

Final point is.....and i shouldn't say it, but stuff it.....things that we want to change that would truly help the place (eg banning URLs from the first ten posts so that we don't get so much spam), we just can't get done because.....well, it just isn't done. So when things that truly would help can't get done by us, then I'm not sure you'll find much energy to support something which MIGHT overrun the place with crap.

Anyway....just my personal thoughts.....not speaking for my modmates
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Old 21.08.2013, 19:27
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

I would say suck it and see. It's easy to change back.

And in parallel, instead of turning threads into Ming Mong Ping Pong, people should click on the

In the end if it doesn't change, it doesn't affect me.

If it changes for the better then cool.

If it changes for the worse then you have evidence.

It does not stop spammers though So that'll continue to be a fight.....
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Old 21.08.2013, 19:28
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

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Well, I'm listening and you are having your say, so all's good, right?

Or does listening = agreeing only?

Couple of personal observations....

1. I don't know what the problem is that this fixes? You want to make it easier for people to posts ads here? Why is that an issue for you? Because you want to buy stuff? Because you think the place lacks traffic? To makes mods lives easier? Just not sure I see to what this is a solution? DP....you say "the problem doesn't go away"....what problem?

2. As a member, i like the mix of stuff here.....feels like one third buying and selling, one third useful info exchange and support and one third banter. I like it.

Final point is.....and i shouldn't say it, but stuff it.....things that we want to change that would truly help the place (eg banning URLs from the first ten posts so that we don't get so much spam), we just can't get done because.....well, it just isn't done. So when things that truly would help can't get done by us, then I'm not sure you'll find much energy to support something which MIGHT overrun the place with crap.

Anyway....just my personal thoughts.....not speaking for my modmates
I'm agree.

Anyways, patience to create 10 decent posts, for somebody who has been here for a while, just moved in or is moving out, shouldn't be such a big deal..It's not done to bug anyone, it is done for already existing community. Seeing the traffic from a slightly different angle, it is clear that ads section is supported by traffic in non commercial section and vice versa, it is beneficial for both.

OP, the posts you are talking about, were actually ads, posted on behalf of somebody else, on top of by a completely new, just signed up newbie. Somebody advertising labor of somebody else, is a case to be zapped, anyways, no matter how long the poster has been a member.
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Old 21.08.2013, 19:49
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Re: Time to change the forum rules/structure?

I don't see the hate for proxy ads. If people don't post email addresses and/or phone numbers directly on the forum then what's wrong? The email and phone number policy was to protect the stupid from themselves. Yes, it might be more drawn out going through a 3rd party but it's not harming anyone. I see more adverts that you'd consider 1st party that are, frankly, taking the piss.

It is obviously no problem for someone who's a long-time member but if someone joins up to offer something that isn't going to harm the community, a little slack could be cut.
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