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Old 05.11.2017, 12:12
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Selling stuff

OK. So I'm trying to sell some stuff as I'm leaving the country, but just found I need 10 posts to post anything in the market place while I have 0. I'm not really a forum guy and do not have the habit to post random stuff anywhere online... Just wondering why 10 post is necessary? I can understand the moderator want to prevent spamming... But maybe the rules can be relaxed a little?
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Old 05.11.2017, 12:24
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Re: Selling stuff

This has been asked before.

https://www.englishforum.ch/forum-su...ket-place.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/forum-su...osts-more.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/complain...furniture.html
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Old 05.11.2017, 13:02
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Re: Selling stuff

Post it on 'tutti' or 'ricardo.
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Old 05.11.2017, 14:24
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Re: Selling stuff

This is not a selling site. It is a community forum for english speaking people in Switzerland to help each other. Members who have helped the community have the benefit of being able to advertise stuff for sale to other members for free.
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Old 05.11.2017, 14:43
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Re: Selling stuff

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OK. So I'm trying to sell some stuff as I'm leaving the country, but just found I need 10 posts to post anything in the market place while I have 0. I'm not really a forum guy and do not have the habit to post random stuff anywhere online... Just wondering why 10 post is necessary? I can understand the moderator want to prevent spamming... But maybe the rules can be relaxed a little?
Sorry, but no - for precisely the reason you signed up. The rules for the Marketplace are quite clear.

https://www.englishforum.ch/items-sa...uncements.html

EF is not a selling site yet people continue to join to offload their items without contributing anything to the forum itself in the way of comments/observations/insights/arguments. So the rule of 10 meaningful posts (no fluff stuff) plus being a member for a week before the Marketplace is accessible was put in place. If you don't like it there are plenty of other dedicated selling sites where you can try and sell your stuff.
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Old 05.11.2017, 14:55
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Re: Selling stuff

Personally, I've always thought this rule is a real pity.

Yes, some of us, here, on the forum, spend time asking for and offering help to others, some of us contribute wisdom or arguments of greater or lesser value, some of us are just bantering or passing the time. Yet all of us need to buy things. So I'm completely happy about anyone posting ads to sell something.

I don't feel that a newbie wanting to advertise right away is in any way abusing me, I don't see any need for being allowed to advertise being a special privilege gained by first following certain steps, and I don't mind one bit whether or not the person advertising has already made a personal mark on the English Forum.

However, chrispwu, the rules about advertising on this forum are set out clearly, there for us to read before we join, or choose not to because the rules don't suit us. So all members have to abide by them. At least until someone changes them, and if that ever happens, then, too, the new rules will be binding on all the members.
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Old 05.11.2017, 15:41
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Re: Selling stuff

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Personally, I've always thought this rule is a real pity.

Yes, some of us, here, on the forum, spend time asking for and offering help to others, some of us contribute wisdom or arguments of greater or lesser value, some of us are just bantering or passing the time. Yet all of us need to buy things. So I'm completely happy about anyone posting ads to sell something.

I don't feel that a newbie wanting to advertise right away is in any way abusing me, I don't see any need for being allowed to advertise being a special privilege gained by first following certain steps, and I don't mind one bit whether or not the person advertising has already made a personal mark on the English Forum.

However, chrispwu, the rules about advertising on this forum are set out clearly, there for us to read before we join, or choose not to because the rules don't suit us. So all members have to abide by them. At least until someone changes them, and if that ever happens, then, too, the new rules will be binding on all the members.
The danger is that the forum becomes saturated by people selling Ikea wardrobes and bundles of toddler clothes. There are dozens of ways of selling things online but many of them are paid for. Any options which would potentially be free would be inundated.

The forum seems to be foremost a community which contributes to a huge resource of info which seems to be super useful to especially newbies. It has a market place for people who can be shown to contribute to that forum.

If someone just purely wants to flog their stuff for free with no obligation to contribute there's Ricardo, Ebay, FB, etc.
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Old 05.11.2017, 15:47
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Re: Selling stuff

doropfiz, I wish I could agree with you. But I checked back through the Forum Support section here for both "selling" and "Marketplace" and everyone I found complaining about not being able to post in the Marketplace basically got their 10 or more posts and then buggered off from the forum or didn't bother to get their count up to 10 and buggered off anyway. I don't see why people should be allowed access to the Marketplace straightaway, it's not what the forum is about or exists for. If they can't be bothered to contribute to the forum then why should they be allowed to abuse the Marketplace access. Because that's what happens - they rush a load of stuff in there, get rid of it all and then disappear never to be heard from again. And we've all seen the silly fluff posts some members try and use to get their post counts up - to me that is abusing the forum as a whole since they add nothing meaningful to any threads they post in.

Yes, people do want to buy and sell and that's why the Marketplace was set up, but I for one have never used it to buy/sell anything. I might one day I guess if I see anything that interests me, but it's not my first port of call. I rarely look at anything in that section. It's not why I joined EF.

If you do a search here for Marketplace you'll find the debates/polls about allowing access.
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Old 05.11.2017, 15:47
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Re: Selling stuff

One thing sometimes gets forgotten here. It wasn't all roses before the rules were set up.

When advertisements were permitted without these limiting rules, Market Place posts by absolute newcomers were sometimes a series of separate threads with individual items for sale. They simply covered the front page. If moderators combined them, with some replies already written, there was complete chaos in the thread and the unfortunate moderator received -er interesting PMs. The moderators also had the unenviable task of writing innumerable PM's themselves regarding price (compulsory) and missing location and explaining why private phone numbers, email addresses etc were not permitted. From my experience at that time, very new members who hadn't even looked at the forum properly except as a free marketplace, could be appallingly rude to a Mod who suggested gently that there was indeed a logic in a move, addition, deletion, edit to their Thread. I actually had to look up some words which were directed at me!

If all the sales threads had been left in place as posted by new members, possible 'important or urgent' questions or other interesting threads could all too easily be missed in New Posts or Today's posts.

I appreciate that if this flood of threads bothers us as individuals, we can opt to make the Market Place invisible, but that is really tipping out the baby with the bathwater. Market Place is a useful arrangement for members to buy and sell between themselves. If it is invisible, I might miss the odd thing which interested me.

For me personally, I would never have considered buying on here from someone who had had no previous posts. I like to see folks' writing style first!
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Old 05.11.2017, 15:48
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Re: Selling stuff

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OK. So I'm trying to sell some stuff as I'm leaving the country, but just found I need 10 posts to post anything in the market place while I have 0. I'm not really a forum guy and do not have the habit to post random stuff anywhere online... Just wondering why 10 post is necessary? I can understand the moderator want to prevent spamming... But maybe the rules can be relaxed a little?
I do understand your sentiment, and as much as it pains us to see 10 random fluff posts (we delete those, anyways), the rule has its reasons. Helpful effort supports the comunity spirit.
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Old 05.11.2017, 15:52
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Re: Selling stuff

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OK. So I'm trying to sell some stuff as I'm leaving the country, but just found I need 10 posts to post anything in the market place while I have 0. I'm not really a forum guy and do not have the habit to post random stuff anywhere online... Just wondering why 10 post is necessary? I can understand the moderator want to prevent spamming... But maybe the rules can be relaxed a little?


I get that you joined a year ago. Still, since joining, you had nothing to post, not even a complaint?
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Old 05.11.2017, 16:44
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Re: Selling stuff

Even without the rules, this is not the best place to sell stuff these days.

Facebook is where everything is being sold..

I know, I know, you're probably not a Facebook guy either. But that's really where you should go to sell.
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Old 05.11.2017, 16:44
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Re: Selling stuff

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I don't see why people should be allowed access to the Marketplace straightaway, it's not what the forum is about or exists for.
The forum exists as a business and it is about making a profit for the owners.
It may have had other origins, but that is what it is now. I think the history is not known to, and understandably of no interest to, newbies who are looking for whatever they see in the forum, now, including the possibility of advertising.

Although long-term users here, from way back when, might feel that someone has to "earn" access to the marketplace, and should prove that they are "worthy" by making a valuable contribution to discussions, etc., both before and even after selling, there is no real reason why any newby should see it the same way.

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One thing sometimes gets forgotten here. It wasn't all roses before the rules were set up.

When advertisements were permitted without these limiting rules, Market Place posts by absolute newcomers were sometimes a series of separate threads with individual items for sale. They simply covered the front page. If moderators combined them, with some replies already written, there was complete chaos in the thread and the unfortunate moderator received -er interesting PMs. The moderators also had the unenviable task of writing innumerable PM's themselves regarding price (compulsory) and missing location and explaining why private phone numbers, email addresses etc were not permitted. From my experience at that time, very new members who hadn't even looked at the forum properly except as a free marketplace, could be appallingly rude to a Mod who suggested gently that there was indeed a logic in a move, addition, deletion, edit to their Thread. I actually had to look up some words which were directed at me!

If all the sales threads had been left in place as posted by new members, possible 'important or urgent' questions or other interesting threads could all too easily be missed in New Posts or Today's posts.
A huge thank you, Longbyt, for this explanation! It is the first I've seen that makes sense to me in terms of the business model of this forum. I get it, now, that were the forum swamped with user-ads only, so that non-ad threads dwindled to only a small proportion, users may find the forum less likeable or less useful for discussions, and then choose to leave. And that would almost certainly result in less profit for the owner company.
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Old 05.11.2017, 16:53
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Re: Selling stuff

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The forum exists as a business and it is about making a profit for the owners.
It may have had other origins, but that is what it is now. I think the history is not known to, and understandably of no interest to, newbies who are looking for whatever they see in the forum, now, including the possibility of advertising.

A huge thank you, Longbyt, for this explanation! It is the first I've seen that makes sense to me in terms of the business model of this forum. I get it, now, that were the forum swamped with user-ads only, so that non-ad threads dwindled to only a small proportion, users may find the forum less likeable or less useful for discussions, and then choose to leave. And that would almost certainly result in less profit for the owner company.
Actually this was a problem long before the 'business' side was in place. Before it was sold to The Local. At the time, voluntary folk were keeping it ticking over nicely after Mark's death. The logic of implementing Market Place Rules at that time was not to improve business value, but to keep the original idea going. A forum to help English speaking folk living and working here. The effect of masses of market place threads 'taking over' the forum was as much a problem to the 'voluntary' folk then as it is now to the owners' potential financial gain.
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Old 05.11.2017, 16:57
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Re: Selling stuff

Ordinary members selling stuff in the Marketplace earns The Local absolutely nothing so I don't see how you think that benefits them. People/companies/groups who put paid advertising into the Commercial section do earn The Local money - but they're the only ones who do.
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Old 05.11.2017, 17:03
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Re: Selling stuff

I'm no digital native, but if the market place 'takes over' and normal, helpful users lose interest and stop giving information, folk stop asking questions, EF loses clicks, and without EF constantly coming up on Google searches, no-one will come on here to see the advertising. So no-one pays to advertise. Possible scenario?

Last edited by Longbyt; 05.11.2017 at 23:41. Reason: Typo
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Old 05.11.2017, 17:08
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Re: Selling stuff

I also think being aquainted with EF members who are selling things adds a degree of trustworthiness to the sale.
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Old 05.11.2017, 18:47
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Re: Selling stuff

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Post it on 'tutti' or 'ricardo.
This is really helpful. Thanks! I was actually trying to find some local "craigslist" alternative while zurich.craigslist.ch itself seems a bit inactive. Since I don't speak German (I blame myself not learning it, but too heavy workload while people in my company only speak English so I became lazy...), I was not able to find a better website until your comment.

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I get that you joined a year ago. Still, since joining, you had nothing to post, not even a complaint?
Sorry I just spend too much time staring at my work computer (10+ hours per day doing circuit simulation/design work), so I was trying to avoid read anything on a screen with a backlight during my leisure time to get relaxed... Hiking and skiing is kinda my thing. I know I'm outdated!


Everyone else, thanks a lot for your comments and explanation about the forum rules. I was thinking it might be a bit rude to ask "where to sell 2nd hand stuff" while this forum already has a marketplace, but luckily I got the answer so I don't need to ask I think it does make sense to have the 10-post limit for various reasons you've mentioned. I also don't want to spam with fluff posts just to get the magic number 10, which will ironically defeats the purpose of the limit. I'll try to post the ads on tutti and ricardo and see how it goes. Again, thanks for all your help!
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Old 05.11.2017, 18:53
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Re: Selling stuff

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This is really helpful. Thanks! I was actually trying to find some local "craigslist" alternative while zurich.craigslist.ch itself seems a bit inactive. Since I don't speak German (I blame myself not learning it, but too heavy workload while people in my company only speak English so I became lazy...), I was not able to find a better website until your comment.



Sorry I just spend too much time staring at my work computer (10+ hours per day doing circuit simulation/design work), so I was trying to avoid read anything on a screen with a backlight during my leisure time to get relaxed... Hiking and skiing is kinda my thing. I know I'm outdated!


Everyone else, thanks a lot for your comments and explanation about the forum rules. I was thinking it might be a bit rude to ask "where to sell 2nd hand stuff" while this forum already has a marketplace, but luckily I got the answer so I don't need to ask I think it does make sense to have the 10-post limit for various reasons you've mentioned. I also don't want to spam with fluff posts just to get the magic number 10, which will ironically defeats the purpose of the limit. I'll try to post the ads on tutti and ricardo and see how it goes. Again, thanks for all your help!
Wow!

That is about the best response from a "Why can't I sell my stuff" noob I have ever read.

My hat is off to you.
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Old 05.11.2017, 22:29
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Re: Selling stuff

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Ordinary members selling stuff in the Marketplace earns The Local absolutely nothing so I don't see how you think that benefits them. People/companies/groups who put paid advertising into the Commercial section do earn The Local money - but they're the only ones who do.
It's perhaps worthwhile pointing out that The Local has, at least since I've been a mod (2014 or so), never tried to interfere with our policy on marketplace rules or other posting policies and guidelines. As you say, they do take paid advertising, which is always clearly marked as such, and only there do they ever take any direct action or ask the moderators to do so.

I only joined the forum around the time they took it over, and although I can understand peoples' concerns - and yes, there was a lot of concern at that time - I can only say that they've always seemed happy to remain very much hands-off on these sorts of questions.
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