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Old 05.08.2020, 17:50
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

I agree with Greenmount.

Why not create a sticky about deleting an account, and be open and clear about the procedure etc?
Note that I would expect EF to create this. This is in my opinion not moderator responsibility.
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  #142  
Old 05.08.2020, 18:04
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Re: Someone to keep an eye on Mk. 2

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... Ok, in short I'd be really interested to know whether there is this possibility or not.
I know other online fora remove not only the user's name but also the content of their posts.
I can't speak for Editor Bob's tools, only tools that mods have access to. Keep in mind our forum runs on a pretty old software so it might not have all the snazzy tools of other fora.

I can delete an account in the mod control panel, but that doesn't remove the person's posts. It removes personal registration/login data. What that means is if my account is deleted, "3Wishes" is gone. You can't search for it any more on EF and I can't log in again. No one can search for threads or posts by me, because now I'm "guest". All my private messages are deleted and not viewable even by the person I originally sent them to.

Search engines/slurp spiders might have cached public pages, but that's not EF's database so we have no control. Also as mentioned before, if the account is gone and the post is attributed to "guest" it would be difficult to argue many posts contain personally identifiable information. Sure, you know you made that post but that doesn't mean everyone on the planet knows or could find out from a random post. Since posts aren't searchable by name any more, it would be a lot of work for someone to try and piece together that these posts by "guest" are a specific former user's posts, and then use said posts to identify that person in real life.

Random example: How would I prove to a court that I made that specific post on that specific day, talking about my dog, AND that the post could identify my actual name or e-mail or something else that falls under GDPR's personally identifying information AND therefore the post harms me and needs to go?

That brings up another point. There is no "reinstatement" of a deleted account. If someone who deleted wants to come back, he or she has to register again just like a new user. The old account isn't accessible or searchable. Those who have chosen to be banned can request reinstatement, which means all the blobbies and stuff are still here and they're still attributed to the same name. The PMs are still here should you want to read them.

I can't really fault anyone for wanting to delete, nor for wanting to come back. People get fed up with fora for various reasons. If someone on EF wants to delete I can say "sad to see you go" but ultimately, if I respect that person I have to respect their choice. If they want to come back, that's okay with me too. It's only the people we've perma-banned who are not welcome back.

In my experience (not just on EF), few walk away from fora and never look back. EF is a community, if an unusual one, and people are curious what's going on and like to peek in from time to time. Nothing wrong with that.

Sorry, that wound up being a really long post.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 06.08.2020 at 16:23. Reason: anonymized a bit in case the quoted user decides to delete
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  #143  
Old 05.08.2020, 18:06
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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For goodness' sake, the thread about pots and pans was cleared up.
Yeah, I just read it. One of us was very kind. There was nothing extremely urgent, offensive or alarming. Why the urgency, gm? For goodness sake.

A few members who competed over pricier cookware? And? Any casual convo you'd invite yourself in, you risk running into "I got better...pricier" or the reverse schtick "I eat with hands, moi". I kinda like that I found out that people eat from precious stuff.

Threads be organic beasts.

Thanks, 3Wishes for summarizing. Basically, mods can anonymize only.
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  #144  
Old 05.08.2020, 18:13
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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..... Why not create a sticky about deleting an account, and be open and clear about the procedure etc?
Note that I would expect EF to create this. This is in my opinion not moderator responsibility.
Yes, that makes sense to me too.
It's part of the forum procedures ..... 10 posts to get to the sales-section .... how to get out/delete account.
This way every newbie can decide whether they agree before they even open an account.

Okay, I know 99.9% of the newbies do not read any rules/information but then the article "Unwissen schützt vor Strafe nicht" (Ignorance is no excuse in law.) applies.
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  #145  
Old 05.08.2020, 18:54
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Re: Someone to keep an eye on Mk. 2

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I can't really fault anyone for wanting to delete, nor for wanting to come back. People get fed up with fora for various reasons. If someone on EF wants to delete I can say "sad to see you go" but ultimately, if I respect that person I have to respect their choice. If they want to come back, that's okay with me too. It's only the people we've perma-banned who are not welcome back.

In my experience (not just on EF), few walk away from fora and never look back. EF is a community, if an unusual one, and people are curious what's going on and like to peek in from time to time. Nothing wrong with that.

Sorry, that wound up being a really long post.
Thank you, it was a long but very informative post and I appreciate you took your time to write so many details.

I have been aware of most of the points you have explained here, however, the question was still in the air so to speak. Not only for me or meloncollie but for other people too.
I agree with you, it doesn't make much sense to ask EB to have the content of one's posts removed (not only user name and other details) apart from emotional reasons.

I know one is tempted to look back and peek in and probably there's nothing wrong with that, just thinking that once you decided to delete your account then that should be it, no more peeking in/being tempted to register again. No more whatever made you leave the forum. IMHO either you do it or you don't. But I understand the reasons for returning here, this is not meant to criticise anyone.
Of course people have different opinions on this one too, I'm pretty sure.

Thanks again, 3Wishes.

Last edited by greenmount; 05.08.2020 at 19:22.
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  #146  
Old 05.08.2020, 19:47
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Yeah, I just read it. One of us was very kind. There was nothing extremely urgent, offensive or alarming. Why the urgency, gm? For goodness sake.

A few members who competed over pricier cookware? And? Any casual convo you'd invite yourself in, you risk running into "I got better...pricier" or the reverse schtick "I eat with hands, moi". I kinda like that I found out that people eat from precious stuff.

Actually it was frying pans and so they weren't eating from them. In fact even if they had wanted to, they couldn't because they didn't actually own the 54,000 dollar set. They were trolling.

You're not the only one who can do passive-aggressive in your posts you know.
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  #147  
Old 05.08.2020, 19:57
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Re: Someone to keep an eye on Mk. 2

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Thank you, it was a long but very informative post and I appreciate you took your time to write so many details.

I have been aware of most of the points you have explained here, however, the question was still in the air so to speak. Not only for me or meloncollie but for other people too.
I agree with you, it doesn't make much sense to ask EB to have the content of one's posts removed (not only user name and other details) apart from emotional reasons.

I know one is tempted to look back and peek in and probably there's nothing wrong with that, just thinking that once you decided to delete your account then that should be it, no more peeking in/being tempted to register again. No more whatever made you leave the forum. IMHO either you do it or you don't. But I understand the reasons for returning here, this is not meant to criticise anyone.
Of course people have different opinions on this one too, I'm pretty sure.

Thanks again, 3Wishes.
Again, EF is a public internet forum. You do not need to be a member to read posts - you only need to be a member to write posts.
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  #148  
Old 05.08.2020, 20:41
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Yes, that makes sense to me too.
It's part of the forum procedures ..... 10 posts to get to the sales-section .... how to get out/delete account.
This way every newbie can decide whether they agree before they even open an account.

Okay, I know 99.9% of the newbies do not read any rules/information but then the article "Unwissen schützt vor Strafe nicht" (Ignorance is no excuse in law.) applies.
This. Make it a sticky topic.

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Again, EF is a public internet forum. You do not need to be a member to read posts - you only need to be a member to write posts.
Exactly.
  #149  
Old 05.08.2020, 22:08
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

Just wondering. If I change my sig to include the recently flounced member's username... will I get into trouble?
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  #150  
Old 05.08.2020, 22:27
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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In my understanding flouncers are people who keep threatening to leave only to to reappear in a week, or threaten to leave in order to flame others but again have no intention of leaving.
We had many who flounced about 10 years ago, some self deleted, some stopped posting. Many of those people returned & have over the last 6 months been leaving deleting their accounts. What I noticed, many were very left wing, they no longer have the safety in no's & need to justify what they write without 2 or 3 friends bullying anyone who disagrees with them.
The Forum has been a much nicer place since the defections.
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  #151  
Old 05.08.2020, 22:30
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Just wondering. If I change my sig to include the recently flounced member's username... will I get into trouble?
I think you'd have to ask him. But I don't know how.
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  #152  
Old 05.08.2020, 22:42
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Okay, I know 99.9% of the newbies do not read any rules/information but then the article "Unwissen schützt vor Strafe nicht" (Ignorance is no excuse in law.) applies.
Under GDPR this has changed.

If T&Cs are too long or too wordy to read all the way to the end, or worded in some way that uses legalese or roundabout language to conceal or obfuscate something, then GDPR says it possibly doesn't count, even if the user specifically agreed to said T&Cs. In other words, the onus of proof has shifted from the user to the service provider.
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  #153  
Old 05.08.2020, 23:00
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Under GDPR this has changed.

If T&Cs are too long or too wordy to read all the way to the end, or worded in some way that uses legalese or roundabout language to conceal or obfuscate something, then GDPR says it possibly doesn't count, even if the user specifically agreed to said T&Cs. In other words, the onus of proof has shifted from the user to the service provider.
Oh goody. Soon this will be applied to all contracts ..... tenant not paying rent .... rent is mentioned at the end of the contract .... tenant claims never to read an entire page - I mean who does that?! .....
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  #154  
Old 05.08.2020, 23:07
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Under GDPR this has changed.

If T&Cs are too long or too wordy to read all the way to the end, or worded in some way that uses legalese or roundabout language to conceal or obfuscate something, then GDPR says it possibly doesn't count, even if the user specifically agreed to said T&Cs. In other words, the onus of proof has shifted from the user to the service provider.
GDPR does not govern Terms and Conditions.

The GDPR is concerned with privacy law.
Privacy Policies fall into that category, but Terms and Conditions agreements do not.
  #155  
Old 06.08.2020, 01:19
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Those who don't want judgement shouldn't create a scene around it. Flouncers never leave quietly.
Some seem to. I was PMing a dude who has now gone. No fuss. The word flounce is a funny one. Implies pettiness when I guess people are just really pissed off.
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  #156  
Old 06.08.2020, 08:50
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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Some seem to. I was PMing a dude who has now gone. No fuss. The word flounce is a funny one. Implies pettiness when I guess people are just really pissed off.
This. But does it? Imply pettiness? I thought it's about taking this decision impatiently...

I really don't want to debate this term anymore because it seems it belittles everyone who has deleted or will delete their account on EF. Or even if they stop posting here altogether. Which we must know it's just baloney...people have different reasons, being pissed off it also implies taking an emotional decision. Again, not always the case. And that wasn't the point of the thread anyway.

The thread shouldn't include jabs at former/current members. I still think it needs a good cleaning from moderators' part because nobody asked for fuss here. It was supposed to be a "technical" discussion. Thank you.
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  #157  
Old 06.08.2020, 09:00
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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We had many who flounced about 10 years ago, some self deleted, some stopped posting. Many of those people returned & have over the last 6 months been leaving deleting their accounts. What I noticed, many were very left wing, they no longer have the safety in no's & need to justify what they write without 2 or 3 friends bullying anyone who disagrees with them.
The Forum has been a much nicer place since the defections.
I guess your honesty is refreshing. Seems like you (and those who’ve thanked your post) prefer interacting with like minded people. Ok then.
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  #158  
Old 06.08.2020, 09:05
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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This. But does it? Imply pettiness? I thought it's about taking this decision impatiently...

I really don't want to debate this term anymore because it seems it belittles everyone who has deleted or will delete their account on EF. Or even if they stop posting here altogether. Which we must know it's just baloney...people have different reasons, being pissed off it also implies taking an emotional decision. Again, not always the case. And that wasn't the point of the thread anyway.

The thread shouldn't include jabs at former/current members. I still think it needs a good cleaning from moderators' part because nobody asked for fuss here. It was supposed to be a "technical" discussion. Thank you.
I think flouncing in real life has the meaning of acting impatiently and in an exaggerated angry manner in order to get attention. But on the internet, if someone nukes their account they can't exactly get the attention they want, so their only option is to loudly declare they're quitting multiple times.

Those who've deleted their accounts have also deleted their voice. I know in my bar we talk about people when they aren't there.
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Old 06.08.2020, 09:17
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Re: GDPR and EnglishForum

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I think flouncing in real life has the meaning of acting impatiently and in an exaggerated angry manner in order to get attention. But on the internet, if someone nukes their account they can't exactly get the attention they want, so their only option is to loudly declare they're quitting multiple times.

Those who've deleted their accounts have also deleted their voice. I know in my bar we talk about people when they aren't there.
I guess there are people who loudly declare that multiple times. Not one of them. I have discussed about the forum which is a different thing, I don't know if you can see the difference. OK, I think it was a general comment but felt compelled to explain my position. I get it, apparently flouncers are bad...whatever, each to their own.

I haven't discussed much about account deleting because I wasn't that sure I want to delete my account in the first place. I used to like the banter here and knew the humour will take me back again, despite all the storms etc.

Btw, it wasn't even possible some time ago. It is a relatively recent option and by that I mean less than a year or 6 months, I don't know exactly. You simply didn't have this option some time ago. I am glad even The Local has catched up. (we have our jokes about The Local)

Last edited by greenmount; 06.08.2020 at 09:42.
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Old 06.08.2020, 09:37
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Re: Someone to keep an eye on Mk. 2

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I can't speak for Editor Bob's tools
Now now, we all have issues with certain mods, but that's a bit rude.
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