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  #181  
Old 09.09.2020, 00:41
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Re: Biased moderation

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I imagine that if you adjust for age conservatives would be more Covid skeptic.
Adjust in which way?
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  #182  
Old 09.09.2020, 01:18
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Re: Biased moderation

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Adjust in which way?
Imagine a simplified model where you have 60 voters, 30 left wingers and 30 conservatives.

Likewise 30 voters are young and 30 are old.

But like in the real world there is a heavy age dependence on voting intention.

Of the 30 conservative voters, 10 are young and 20 are old.

Of the 30 lefty voters, 20 are young and 10 are old.

Imagine the following situation;

Con:
Young: 8 skeptical, 2 not. (80% skeptics)
Old: 7 skeptical, 13 not. (35% skeptics)

Total: 15 skeptics, 15 not

Lefty:
Young: 13 skeptics, 7 not (65% skeptics)
Old: 2 skeptics, 8 not (20% skeptics)

Total: 15 skeptics, 15 not

In such a simple system Young conservatives are 15% more skeptical than young lefties.

Further, old conservatives are also 15% more skeptical than old lefties.

Thus, adjusting for age conservatives are 15% more skeptical than lefties in this scenario.

However both conservatives and lefties unadjusted are equally skeptical overall (50%). Because the dependence on age is greater than the dependence on political views and the ages of the groups are different.

I bet there is this type of effect going on. We know from the data that old people have been taking Covid more seriously. We also know that old people are much more right wing than young people.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 09.09.2020 at 01:30.
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  #183  
Old 09.09.2020, 03:43
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Re: Biased moderation

Can you take your Trump/Coronavirus discussions back to the respective threads please? There is a reason why I don't open those...

And I agree with olygirl. While the constant not so underhand digs have suddenly ceased for whatever reason and have made way for some sort of civil effort, I find myself worrying as to what has brought it on. It almost weirder than the simmering hostility.
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  #184  
Old 09.09.2020, 06:53
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Re: Biased moderation

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Can you take your Trump/Coronavirus discussions back to the respective threads please? There is a reason why I don't open those...

And I agree with olygirl. While the constant not so underhand digs have suddenly ceased for whatever reason and have made way for some sort of civil effort, I find myself worrying as to what has brought it on. It almost weirder than the simmering hostility.
I think the Trump obsessed person is severely jet lagged and has no idea what thread they’re even posting on. Earlier they didn’t seem to know what country they were in.

I hope I’m providing enough simmering hostility for you to fix the weirdness. Mine is nearly boiling over. I’ve got zero patience for the misinformation, cherry-picking data and flat out ignorance going on here. Anyone peddling it gets my fury. Can’t be helped. And again, I’m fine with mods deleting me when I cross the line, just not when they’re neck deep in the argument themselves. Hence this very thread I started.
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  #185  
Old 09.09.2020, 10:14
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Re: Biased moderation

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I can promise on my behalf to think more about the effect my opinions will have in threads for sure ... and not mod when in a debate, though practically it gets tough, mods are active on EF as members.
MusicChick, thank you! I want to at least try to believe you on this. If you do as you promise here, for all your posts, irrespective of your degree of participation in a debate, irrespective of whether you see those posts as being as a "member" or as a "mod", then, yes, I think that would be a worthy improvement. I hope this will work.

As you know, from me directly, I have repeatedly perceived some of your posts (and those of some others) to be agressive and unnecessarily devisive. Not the opinions per se, not that a different view is stated, that's obviously completely fine, but the way you (or others) have chosen to express your own views or comment on those of another. C'est toujours le ton qui fait la musique.

A discussion is interesting when users express divergent perspectives. That is, after all, part of the point of a fourm. It's how it's done that can make interactions really good, or terrible. The atmosphere on EF has been criticised as unnecessarily nasty, boastful, supercilious or aggressive (certainly not only MusicChick's posts, but some of those, indeed, and some of other users). Whenever it is an "other user" everyone can choose, if they wish to, to add that person to their ignore list. Regrettably, the way this forum is run, it is not permitted/possible to block a mod's posts.

The recent significant (and for me very sad) exodus from EF was, in one way or another, because some of those users were simply no longer willing to put up with the extent of negativity, aggression and conflict on EF, and some of those specifically, MusicChick, because of the way you used your power as a mod. Those were not just silly, trivial, temporary, over-sensitive flouncers, but in several cases long-term, core members who, though by no means perfect, and nobody is, had contributed much that was good, over many years. Fora fluctuate, that's natural. All of those in which I participate, work better when there's a custom of (or a return to) good manners, overall, and a little restraint. I value the good things about this Froum, and I'm troubled by those people having left. And I'm sad about the reasons given by those of them who made their reasons known.

Thank you, MusicChick, for now determining to make this change. That's a significant step, and a courageous post, and I appreciate that.

I hope that your promise, made here, will become be part of a change that will steer the Forum into kinder waters. Thank you.

Last edited by doropfiz; 09.09.2020 at 21:51. Reason: minor typo
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  #186  
Old 09.09.2020, 10:17
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Re: Biased moderation

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You are from VT?
No, CT.

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I imagined you having a huge beard, wearing a khaki baseball cap and a vest and coming from somewhere like Montana or Wyoming, owning multiple weapons and talking mostly about "the feds"
I never wear hats of any kind, especially not a baseball cap, nor a vest.

I always talk about the 'feds', but the ones up in Bern.


Tom
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  #187  
Old 09.09.2020, 11:56
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Re: Biased moderation

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Seriously, get bent. You have no clue what you're talking about. Those are fighting words.

I'm quaking in my boots.
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  #188  
Old 09.09.2020, 12:01
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Re: Biased moderation

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I imagined you having a huge beard, wearing a khaki baseball cap and a vest and coming from somewhere like Montana or Wyoming, owning multiple weapons and talking mostly about "the feds"
Actual photo of Tom:

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  #189  
Old 09.09.2020, 12:01
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Re: Biased moderation

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The recent significant (and for me very sad) exodus from EF was, in one way or another, because some of those users were simply no longer willing to put up with the extent of negativity, aggression and conflict on EF,
That is an interesting take. Much as I share your regret for their departure (but I'm not sure that some aren't back under different names?), the group that departed all in one go included some individuals who were very much at the heart of the hostility. There were individuals there who unceasingly bullied and mocked newbies. There were people who were unable to disagree without being civil about it. Who actually pushed quite a few posters off this forum with their insatiable hostility.

And after they left, things did actually improve for a while. A bit.

As I have said previously, it is more difficult to spot a bully if he or she is somebody who is mostly on your side in the debates. I think this is clouding the perception of some of us, and why they think the bullies are all and only on the other side. No they're not.

Before taking a swipe at others, they would do well to take a critical look at their own posting style (and that of their friends) and try to imagine what it must be like to be at the receiving end of that.
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  #190  
Old 09.09.2020, 12:05
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Re: Biased moderation

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And after they left, things did actually improve for a while.

As I have said previously, it is more difficult to spot a bully if he or she is somebody who is mostly on your side in the debates. I think this is clouding the perception of some of us, and why they think the bullies are all on the other side. No they're not.

Before taking a swipe at others, they would do well to take a critical look at their own posting style and try to imagine what it must be like to be at the receiving end of that.
I said it would improve after the defections, it did, many of the defectors have rejoined along with their unpleasantness. I feel sorry for the sad souls that left in a hissy fit & have now returned.
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  #191  
Old 09.09.2020, 12:08
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Re: Biased moderation

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That is an interesting take. Much as I share your regret for their departure (but I'm not sure that some aren't back under different names?), the group that departed all in one go included some individuals who were very much at the heart of the hostility. There were individuals there who unceasingly bullied and mocked newbies. There were people who were unable to disagree without being civil about it. Who actually pushed quite a few posters off this forum.

And after they left, things did actually improve for a while.

As I have said previously, it is more difficult to spot a bully if he or she is somebody who is mostly on your side in the debates. I think this is clouding the perception of some of us, and why they think the bullies are all on the other side. No they're not.

Before taking a swipe at others, they would do well to take a critical look at their own posting style and try to imagine what it must be like to be at the receiving end of that.

Also an interesting take. It's the terrorist/freedom fighter debate I suppose. I think a lot of the posters referred to above were not bullies. They did, however, stand their ground, refuse to be cowed, and spoke their mind. Mostly with a good deal of civil humour.

I'm interested in a discussion of what constitutes bullying - I know what I understand it to be. "Bully" is a term often hurled around when a discussion is not proceeding along anticipated lines. It often appears to be used as a trump card in order to claim some moral highground, particularly when the hurler does not agree with /like the hurlee.
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  #192  
Old 09.09.2020, 12:10
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Re: Biased moderation

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That is an interesting take. Much as I share your regret for their departure (but I'm not sure that some aren't back under different names?), the group that departed all in one go included some individuals who were very much at the heart of the hostility. There were individuals there who unceasingly bullied and mocked newbies. There were people who were unable to disagree without being civil about it. Who actually pushed quite a few posters off this forum with their insatiable hostility.
After some of them left, the amount of red-rep and accompanying comments that I was receiving went right down.
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  #193  
Old 09.09.2020, 13:48
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Re: Biased moderation

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Actual photo of Tom
My hair is a lot long, and I don't wear vests!

Also, I normally leave the top two buttons open, haven't worn a watch in decades, and when I did I wore it on the RH wrist, not the left!

Tom
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  #194  
Old 09.09.2020, 13:50
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Re: Biased moderation

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My hair is a lot long, and I don't wear vests!

Tom
Then we need to get you one!

EF vest!
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  #195  
Old 09.09.2020, 13:55
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Re: Biased moderation

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After some of them left, the amount of red-rep and accompanying comments that I was receiving went right down.
My amount of deleted posts also decreased drastically
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  #196  
Old 09.09.2020, 14:54
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Re: Biased moderation

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I imagine that if you adjust for age conservatives would be more Covid skeptic.
Perhaps because they're also more likely to be skeptical of science, as the religious often are. That is... Until they need to see a doctor, of course.
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  #197  
Old 09.09.2020, 15:19
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Re: Biased moderation

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I'm interested in a discussion of what constitutes bullying - I know what I understand it to be. "Bully" is a term often hurled around when a discussion is not proceeding along anticipated lines. It often appears to be used as a trump card in order to claim some moral highground, particularly when the hurler does not agree with /like the hurlee.
It's easy: bullying is when I stand my ground and insist that you*'re wrong because I actually know you're wrong.
Sometimes "bullying" is just that.

*"you" in general, I don't mean you, RufusB.

Last edited by greenmount; 09.09.2020 at 20:54. Reason: *
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  #198  
Old 09.09.2020, 18:18
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Re: Biased moderation

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Also an interesting take. It's the terrorist/freedom fighter debate I suppose. I think a lot of the posters referred to above were not bullies. They did, however, stand their ground, refuse to be cowed, and spoke their mind. Mostly with a good deal of civil humour.

I'm interested in a discussion of what constitutes bullying - I know what I understand it to be. "Bully" is a term often hurled around when a discussion is not proceeding along anticipated lines. It often appears to be used as a trump card in order to claim some moral highground, particularly when the hurler does not agree with /like the hurlee.
Does "standing your ground" and "refusing to be cowed" extend to sending menacing PMs and hounding certain users, no matter where they were or what they were posting?
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  #199  
Old 09.09.2020, 18:21
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Re: Biased moderation

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It's easy: bullying is when I stand my ground and insist that you're wrong because I actually know you're wrong.
Sometimes "bullying" is just that.
Everybody on EF appears to "know" they are right.

So either some of them are mistaken or there are different shades of right.
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Old 09.09.2020, 20:47
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Re: Biased moderation

Yes, most people here appear to think they're right (of course not everyone is, and definitely not all the time), unfortunately some have an overwhelming need to have the last word in every argument. There's a time and place for everything, not sure if it's worth wasting one's precious energy (and privacy, a little bit) for fruitless debates after which everyone will carry on as usual.
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