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  #141  
Old 08.09.2020, 13:11
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Re: Biased moderation

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Umm, that is NOT the reason.

Tom
I know, I got it.
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  #142  
Old 08.09.2020, 13:18
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Re: Biased moderation

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I absolutely hate Donald Trump and Musicchick has been nice to me . Maybe I've just been lucky so far.
I think everyone will probably judge this thread and MC's behavior according to their own personal experiences with her. If you had asked me last March what I thought of MC, I would have had nothing but nice words to say about her. But then (again), her behavior toward me suddenly drastically shifted. I was actually really doing my best to avoid this thread despite my own personal experiences with her, because I didn't want to feel as though I was trying to gang up on her or anything. At the same time, though, I did find it a bit odd that this thread even came to exist, considering. And that told me that certain patterns appear to be emerging, and I finally decided to relay my own experience with a mod here, but without naming her directly.

It's all just starting to feel very grade-schoolish to me, really. I'm not into feeling bullied by anyone and I'm also really not into bullying anyone. And I'm not really into virtual cat fights on online forums. But I relayed my own personal experience, and that's that. I tried making peace with her before but quickly learned my lesson that that's useless, apparently.

It's a beautiful day today... Too beautiful to be wasting it arguing with strangers on the internet, isn't it?
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  #143  
Old 08.09.2020, 13:23
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Re: Biased moderation

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Pancakes - I think I am this "person" you are talking about. Demonstrate where you were targetted by me as a mod. I simply did not agree as a member with some points you vehemently repeat and invest yourself in. I do it politely. Mods as you noticed share their opinions but somehow you decide to point me out and not other mods in the same debate. Why you call my opinions passive aggressive because they happen to disagree with yours, strange . I have never given you a negative rep, nada. I always knew your poltical opinions but dissociated that from parenting we agreed on and shared tips on. You however stooped down to publishing my child's name online and not offer an apology after being edited.

I thanked people who fully share some points with me but that's all. These people I thank aren't ever uncivil.

You bringing in some diagnosis of your political oponents...or rather people you disagree with in a friendly and annonymous political chitchat...have bothered quite a few members. I don't see it as trying to keep peace.

Anyways - we need to have diverse modship and membership. I can promise on my behalf to think more about the effect my opinions will have in threads for sure (I did not think my opinions mattered much, tbh, at all) and not mod when in a debate, though practically it gets tough, mods are active on EF as members.

I think the community is lovely. Don't think about leaving, you belong to it, people appreciate you, me too. Leavers or flouncers are a bit like door slammers. We get it and it's part of some stuff but still..
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I do take a strong interest in psychology (my best friend is a professor of psychology and we talk almost every day), but I have never brought in any kind of diagnosis for any of my "political opponents" here, as you said. I had, however, once mentioned that numerous psychiatrists have said that Trump has the characteristics of a psychopath (don't "shoot the messenger" for that). Or perhaps you are referring to the time that Urs Max had mistakenly accused me of calling him (her?) a psychopath? After which I had copied and pasted that string of comments to clear that up and to prove that I had in fact never once called him or her a psychopath. I had simply stated that emotions are necessary in moral decision making because a lack of emotions such as empathy is a characteristic of psychopathy. So please tell me where exactly I have diagnosed any of my "political opponents" here, as you suggest that I have?

You know what you were doing, MC. You even went so far as to post and imply that I had been bothering you with messages when in fact it was you who first messaged me out-of-the-blue last winter and then asked me how I was doing and then we began to discuss our kids, etc. We were being very friendly and decent toward one another, but then as soon as I expressed the fact that I do no like Trump in posts here, your attitude toward me shifted dramatically. Once I began to notice that, I attempted to make peace with you and to express that I didn't think badly of you simply because we have different political opinions, but you continued to try to groan every post of mine that you could -- even when it wasn't a political post -- and edit my posts and even accused me of having "bad behavior" here without elaborating on that. I don't think it's pure coincidence that your behavior toward me dramatically shifted here (in fact, it did a complete 180) once I expressed in posts that I am not fond of Trump. And you yourself just stated that you think me expressing the fact that I don't like Trump is considered "bad behavior" in your mind.

So no, it isn't you simply expressing your opinions that has made me say that you were being "passive aggressive." It's your targeting of people who do not share your political opinions and then using your status as a mod to try to belittle them, etc. as well as to accuse people of having "bad behavior" for simply expressing their own political opinions.

Again, I had done my best to try to make peace with you -- even wishing you and your family well -- which you then took as a means to try to belittle me by editing that post and then accusing me of having "bad behavior" but not elaborating upon that accusation.

Listen, I don't care that we don't get along anymore. It's fine. One I was forced to realize that making peace with you was impossible, I've been doing my best to ignore your posts in order to avoid any confrontations and to spare any of the other members here of having to endure "catty drama." I don't come onto this forum to fight with people. It's not something I enjoy doing. I also don't enjoy feeling that someone who once acted like a friend here is now targeting me because I express the fact that I am not a Trump supporter.

Take care.
Guys, I don't think anyone needs to see you both airing your personal laundry in this particularly lengthy and uncomfortable way... please take it to PM?
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  #144  
Old 08.09.2020, 13:49
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Re: Biased moderation

Well this has a lot in it to unpack.

Absolutely have diversity. Embrace opinions. Be fully aware that folk may not agree with you and that it's not the end of the world... however...

There is passive aggression in some moderator's behaviours. There are - certainly in my opinion - attempts to belittle/police/divide.

Is it a perfect community - nope. Wouldn't even know what one of those looks like. But it holds a pretty sweet spot for a lot of people.

There are clearly huge inconsistencies in the way mods operate. Personal biases absolutely come into it and I believe it is both disingenuous and naive to say that they don't. People are biased. It's the way it is.

If people are bothered by something, they should feel that they should be able to say something without risk of personal attacks. "Politeness" appears to be subjective. That's the problem with written-only communication I guess.

My two penn'orth.
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  #145  
Old 08.09.2020, 14:15
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Re: Biased moderation

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I've recently learned that that makes you a libertarian which I've been told is akin to stepping in dogshit while wearing wooly socks.
You are better off than me since I don't even know what that term means any more. People use it pretty much for everything now.
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  #146  
Old 08.09.2020, 14:29
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Re: Biased moderation

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I've recently learned that that makes you a libertarian which I've been told is akin to stepping in dogshit while wearing wooly socks.
I just looked it up in the dictionary. The official definition of libertarian is: person that disagrees with robogobo.
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  #147  
Old 08.09.2020, 14:52
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Re: Biased moderation

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Mods can't be ignored...
Well......
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  #148  
Old 08.09.2020, 15:04
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Re: Biased moderation

I'm no big fan of MC but even I think this thread is dreadfully boring
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  #149  
Old 08.09.2020, 15:20
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Re: Biased moderation

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Guys, I don't think anyone needs to see you both airing your personal laundry in this particularly lengthy and uncomfortable way... please take it to PM?
No problem. As far as I'm concerned, it just is what it is. And hopefully from this point forward, we'll just do our best to try to ignore each other. I do that more out of respect than anything else -- just not wanting to get into it.

But if I may say one more thing... Someone here gave me some great words of advice a few months ago. If you end up feeling targeted here on the EF or if you find yourself in a heated argument that just keeps going in circles, often the best thing really is to just take a long break from the EF, even if you have to force yourself to do it... Clear your head, let the waves settle and step away from all the noise. I think many of us have become a bit 'programmed' to be addicted to the EF and/or at least to use it on a daily basis, but if it's something that often ends up ruining your day or putting you in a bad mood, just remove yourself from all the noise for a while.

Another quote I once heard that really seems to make a lot of sense: "If it costs you your inner peace, it's too expensive."

And with that said, I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite, because I'm currently laying out in the sun and reading a book on quantum gravity that is making my head feel like it's going to explode.
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  #150  
Old 08.09.2020, 15:20
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Re: Biased moderation

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I'm no big fan of MC but even I think this thread is dreadfully boring
Should I spice it up a bit with some Kenny Rogers?
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  #151  
Old 08.09.2020, 16:50
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Re: Biased moderation

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Should I spice it up a bit with some Kenny Rogers?
If that's your idea of spicy we need to have a conversation
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  #152  
Old 08.09.2020, 16:59
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Re: Biased moderation

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If that's your idea of spicy we need to have a conversation
Ha haaa!!! I was joking!
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  #153  
Old 08.09.2020, 17:42
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Re: Biased moderation

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I just looked it up in the dictionary. The official definition of libertarian is: person that disagrees with robogobo.
For me, the most classically Libertarian member of this forum is st2lemans, and being a true Libertarian isn't necessarily a bad thing. The problems and conflicts arise when you have a Libertarian in a position of power in a setting where laws and rules are key to the success of that position, particularly regarding their position of authority over others.

Sorry to use Tom as an example here, but he's strikes me a man who lives his life by his own rules and has a casual disregard for rules which he sees as an infringement on that. By the same measure, whilst he's very forthright in expressing his opinion by the use of thanks and groan buttons, I've never seen him impose his opinion or will upon others. In my opinion, that's classic Libertarian behaviour and I have no issue with it.
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  #154  
Old 08.09.2020, 17:49
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Re: Biased moderation

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For me, the most classically Libertarian member of this forum is st2lemans, and being a true Libertarian isn't necessarily a bad thing. The problems and conflicts arise when you have a Libertarian in a position of power in a setting where laws and rules are key to the success of that position, particularly regarding their position of authority over others.

Sorry to use Tom as an example here, but he's strikes me a man who lives his life by his own rules and has a casual disregard for rules which he sees as an infringement on that. By the same measure, whilst he's very forthright in expressing his opinion by the use of thanks and groan buttons, I've never seen him impose his opinion or will upon others. In my opinion, that's classic Libertarian behaviour and I have no issue with it.
“I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough.” ― Christopher Hitchens
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  #155  
Old 08.09.2020, 17:58
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Re: Biased moderation

I've no time for Hitchens, Dawkins, Chomsky, etc. Much prefer to hear what people think for themselves.
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  #156  
Old 08.09.2020, 18:04
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Re: Biased moderation

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Mod rhymes with God, just saying.

Tom
It also rhymes with Cod. And that also is a bit fishy.
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  #157  
Old 08.09.2020, 18:18
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Re: Biased moderation

A bit along the lines of Hitchens is this Classic Libertarian joke:

Little boy says to mom : “when I grow up, I want to be a libertarian”

Mom says : “sorry dear, you’ll have to choose”
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  #158  
Old 08.09.2020, 18:20
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Re: Biased moderation

Jeez, you guys are prolific! I'm replying to posts made this morning and now we're three pages on in the thread.

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Because there's at least one mod who very openly flaunts left wing views at least as much as MC does right wing. That's fine to a degree as long as there's balance.

I quote from one of their recent posts.

"Tony, stop digging or you'll never climb out of this hole you're creating."
Oooooooh, oooh, I recognise that QUOTE! That's me!!!!!

It's funny how people draw conclusions from limited data. My openly flaunted left-wing views, for example. There's no need to share this information, but I don't mind: firstly, I've never identified as left- or right-wing (they are not terms that we commonly apply to voters in Australia, and frankly, shouldn't be applied to politics in the US either, as pretty much no member of Congress can truly be described as "left-wing" when you look at the spectrum worldwide). But if you're interested, I always voted for the Liberal candidate in Australian elections and for the Conservative candidate in UK elections. And before you get too excited, the confusingly named Liberal Party in Australia is one of the most conservative parties there; think former Prime Ministers Tony Abbott, the blockhead just hired to advise on trade negotiations for the UK, or John Howard.

I am, however, vehemently anti-Trump, because I see him as an ignorant, uninformed fool, a conman, a liar, a cheat, and an all-round despicable individual. I'm not anti-GOP. I don't like all of their policies (although I'm not sure they have any left), but I don't love all the Democrats' ideas either. I do believe that the US should provide basic healthcare for all its residents, just as the UK, Australia, Canada, NZ, and almost all other first world nations do—nations where the opposing political parties have learned to agree on essentials and work together.

I would say that I'm much more of a moderate individual, politically. I'm on the right to some extent economically but less so socially. Again, if anybody's interested. But I'm not a slave to the right and I will and do object to, and call out, behaviour and policies that I see as detrimental to the population as a whole.

I can see, however, why some might label me left-wing when the basis for comparison is the noisy, vehement, obdurate, rather extreme right-wing bloc that insists on dumping on everybody else—without evidence or reasoned arguments—on this forum.

If I recall correctly, I made the post referring to TonyClifton's hole-digging in the coronavirus thread. There were no politics involved there. My issue with him, and others, is his repeated fact-free, unsupported claims. As a scientist and contributing member of EF, I can't let misleading or plain false information stand unchallenged. And I believe it's right that I call it out as a moderator, too.

So there you have it. I'm a politically moderately conservative individual, living in a relatively very conservative country, who requires hard facts and evidence to back up claims. And undoubtedly I bring a lot of that background into my moderation, which by the way, is worth at least what I am paid. Undoubtedly, there is at least a couple of other moderators who are far more to the right of me, politically, and at least one who is to the left (and has even, gasp, voted that way in national elections!)

All I ask is that EF members post truthfully and accurately, and listen to others' viewpoints. Oh, and stop moaning about some post of theirs that was deleted months ago because they were being an arse.

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The forum was founded by a South-African expat (R.I.P.) who was far away from a right-winger or Brexiteeer or Trumpeteer. He had something else in mind when he created this site.
I prefer to think of Mark as Australian, which he was (as well).
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  #159  
Old 08.09.2020, 18:22
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Re: Biased moderation

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I've no time for Hitchens, Dawkins, Chomsky, etc. Much prefer to hear what people think for themselves.
Hitchens has a point, though. Sometimes there is a very fine line between one's self-perceived "personal freedoms" and someone's delusional sense of entitlement.
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Old 08.09.2020, 18:33
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Re: Biased moderation

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pretty much no member of Congress can truly be described as "left-wing" when you look at the spectrum worldwide
Not even Sandy Ocasio?

Tom
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