Biased moderation

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Motorschweitz
	I don't post all that much, I try to be helpful when I do, I occasionally lurk, and follow some interesting debates (even contributing every so often) that get clouded by annoying catfights. I think the mods do a fantastic job. And, by far, my favorite poster on this forum since I joined about 10 years ago has been st2lemans. Just piping in from the back of the room.

Nobody is at the back of the room. Just because you might have not posted a lot or have an opinion that might seem marginal to some does not put you in the back of the room.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	It's funny how people draw conclusions from limited data. My openly flaunted left-wing views, for example. There's no need to share this information, but I don't mind: firstly, I've never identified as left- or right-wing (they are not terms that we commonly apply to voters in Australia, and frankly, shouldn't be applied to politics in the US either, as pretty much no member of Congress can truly be described as "left-wing" when you look at the spectrum worldwide). But if you're interested, I always voted for the Liberal candidate in Australian elections and for the Conservative candidate in UK elections. And before you get too excited, the confusingly named Liberal Party in Australia is one of the most conservative parties there; think former Prime Ministers Tony Abbott, the blockhead just hired to advise on trade negotiations for the UK, or John Howard. .

Haha, you didn't have to justify yourself but you did it in a very elegant and gentle way. I can definitely relate to your views.

	Quote:
	I prefer to think of Mark as Australian, which he was (as well).

I forgot.
He was a great guy.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:
	Jeez, you guys are prolific! I'm replying to posts made this morning and now we're three pages on in the thread. Oooooooh, oooh, I recognise that QUOTE! That's me!!!!! It's funny how people draw conclusions from limited data. My openly flaunted left-wing views, for example. There's no need to share this information, but I don't mind: firstly, I've never identified as left- or right-wing (they are not terms that we commonly apply to voters in Australia, and frankly, shouldn't be applied to politics in the US either, as pretty much no member of Congress can truly be described as "left-wing" when you look at the spectrum worldwide). But if you're interested, I always voted for the Liberal candidate in Australian elections and for the Conservative candidate in UK elections. And before you get too excited, the confusingly named Liberal Party in Australia is one of the most conservative parties there; think former Prime Ministers Tony Abbott, the blockhead just hired to advise on trade negotiations for the UK, or John Howard. I am, however, vehemently anti-Trump, because I see him as an ignorant, uninformed fool, a conman, a liar, a cheat, and an all-round despicable individual. I'm not anti-GOP. I don't like all of their policies (although I'm not sure they have any left), but I don't love all the Democrats' ideas either. I do believe that the US should provide basic healthcare for all its residents, just as the UK, Australia, Canada, NZ, and almost all other first world nations do—nations where the opposing political parties have learned to agree on essentials and work together. I would say that I'm much more of a moderate individual, politically. I'm on the right to some extent economically but less so socially. Again, if anybody's interested. But I'm not a slave to the right and I will and do object to, and call out, behaviour and policies that I see as detrimental to the population as a whole. I can see, however, why some might label me left-wing when the basis for comparison is the noisy, vehement, obdurate, rather extreme right-wing bloc that insists on dumping on everybody else—without evidence or reasoned arguments—on this forum. If I recall correctly, I made the post referring to TonyClifton's hole-digging in the coronavirus thread. There were no politics involved there. My issue with him, and others, is his repeated fact-free, unsupported claims. As a scientist and contributing member of EF, I can't let misleading or plain false information stand unchallenged. And I believe it's right that I call it out as a moderator, too. So there you have it. I'm a politically moderately conservative individual, living in a relatively very conservative country, who requires hard facts and evidence to back up claims. And undoubtedly I bring a lot of that background into my moderation, which by the way, is worth at least what I am paid. Undoubtedly, there is at least a couple of other moderators who are far more to the right of me, politically, and at least one who is to the left (and has even, gasp, voted that way in national elections!) All I ask is that EF members post truthfully and accurately, and listen to others' viewpoints. Oh, and stop moaning about some post of theirs that was deleted months ago because they were being an arse. I prefer to think of Mark as Australian, which he was (as well).

I guess I was a bit foolish to think of anti-Cliftonian Coronavirus views as left wing . I think the point was you have an opinion as do all mods and that's no bad thing. I hope you could tell that I have no bad blood with you (not that you'd care!)

Sorry for singling you out as I have enjoyed reading your posts

I must write out ten times:

I must not judge people's political views by a single internet post.

For all I know St2Lemans could be a extinction rebellion protestor by night and Marton posts in his MAGA cap.

	Quote:	Pancakes
	Should I spice it up a bit with some Kenny Rogers?

	Quote:	RufusB
	If that's your idea of spicy we need to have a conversation

How about spacy Kenny Rogers instead? (Best with headphones!)

How does this work?

[doropfiz]

	Quote:	Chuff
	Guys, I don't think anyone needs to see you both airing your personal laundry in this particularly lengthy and uncomfortable way... please take it to PM?

I think you're right. If anyone has an issue with the behaviour of another, the best place to seek to address this - if at all - would be PM.

From my own PMs, both received and written, over the years, I can see that it's often nicely quick and easy to clarify a misunderstanding, to add something useful to a discussion, to receive a criticism or a suggestion or a request to change something. A lot of the time this works very, very well.

Unfortunately, as Pancakes' post shows, even her best attempts at that didn't bring about any improvement in the quality of the interactions. In other threads, too, there've been posts by several users who've tried to address issues by PM, but to no avail.

With regard to unnecessarily stirring/destructive behaviour, including la provocation pour la provocation, it seems that addressing the matter goes public when PMs have failed, or are ignored, and once someone considers someone else to have gone "too far". Of course, each person's sense of what is "too far" is different.

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Not even Sandy Ocasio? Tom

Not really. She and Bernie are among the most leftist in Congress, but not even they advocate redistribution of personal assets or state-imposed restrictions on career choice or family size. They are more to the left than anyone else in Congress, but way to the right of Mao or Stalin (not that I believe in a single-dimensional political spectrum).

It amuses when I hear good ol' boys describing Sanders as "communist", or even as "liberal" (pejoratively, I assume -- Trump has done this, often). It just shows clearly that these people have no idea of the full range of political ideologies. I think the concept is that anyone from outside Mississippi is a damn commie, and therefore dangerous. I wonder what they make of the UK with its NHS, or Australia with its minimum wage.

[st2lemans]

Actually, I've always liked Bernie, probably because he's from VT.

Tom

[robogobo]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I just looked it up in the dictionary. The official definition of libertarian is: person that disagrees with robogobo.

Hardy effing har. I certainly disagree with Libertarians so by the transitive property, yeah. But there's a whole lot more to it than that. One of the other characteristics is a self-aggrandized bent for snark, like a playground tough guy looking to his minions for a laugh. See the list of thankers below your comment for the minions.

I'd ignore you all but your cavalier attitude continually puts other people in danger. So don't worry, I'm here all night and day for you.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Actually, I've always liked Bernie, probably because he's from VT. Tom

You are from VT? That's really disappointed me.

I imagined you having a huge beard, wearing a khaki baseball cap and a vest and coming from somewhere like Montana or Wyoming, owning multiple weapons and talking mostly about "the feds"

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	robogobo
	Hardy effing hat .... by the transitive property... a self-aggrandized bent for snark

Is that you Dan Quayle?

[robogobo]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Nobody is at the back of the room. Just because you might have not posted a lot or have an opinion that might seem marginal to some does not put you in the back of the room.

Especially when he's fluffing the mods' ego.

[olygirl]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	P Anyways - we need to have diverse modship and membership. I can promise on my behalf to think more about the effect my opinions will have in threads for sure (I did not think my opinions mattered much, tbh, at all) and not mod when in a debate, though practically it gets tough, mods are active on EF as members. .

MC: you are not as innocent as you make yourself out to be. Your modding has caused havoc among posters, threads and I can imagine you caused a riff among the mod team with your behaviour as well. I know for a fact that posters have left because of your modding behaviour. People have written to you imploring you to step down but you ignored these pleas again and again. People have written to the editor but somehow you manage to stay on.


You feign innocence in order to detract from the issues caused by your modding. Your stubborness reinforces my belief that you stay as a symbol of power. I applaud your vocal circle of friends for sticking up for you but there are many longtime posters on the board who have noticed your growing biases as a mod and find it's time for you to become a commoner again.


You have promised to rethink your posts but will you also rethink your modding behaviour? People will be watching closely how you mod in the future and they will not be silent if they see you abuse your powers again.


I care for this board too much to see a mod abuse their power time and again. If you cannot separate your political views from your mod responsibilities, you need to be honest with yourself and step down. We'll see what the future brings.

[robogobo]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	Is that you Dan Quayle?

I don't know what that means. But nice snark.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	You are from VT? That's really disappointed me. I imagined you having a huge beard, wearing a khaki baseball cap and a vest and coming from somewhere like Montana or Wyoming, owning multiple weapons and talking mostly about "the feds"

I bet the vest and weapons are true. With a Hello Kitty sticking out of his many vest pockets!

	Quote:	robogobo
	Hardy effing har. I certainly disagree with Libertarians so by the transitive property, yeah. But there's a whole lot more to it than that. One of the other characteristics is a self-aggrandized bent for snark, like a playground tough guy looking to his minions for a laugh. See the list of thankers below your comment for the minions. I'd ignore you all but your cavalier attitude continually puts other people in danger. So don't worry, I'm here all night and day for you.

I rarely groan...but you remind me of Trump in your callous disregard as anyone who proffers a different view from you, are idiots...or "FAKE NEWS". Perhaps, you cannot see that others have a point here? Or are you too narcissistic to think your view is the ONLY view??

PS...just so we are clear, I spent 2 months back in PA and there is no confusion on my part as to where I was or where I am (Just returned on Saturday). I may have a slightly broader perspective on this virus as to how this affects many in the US. And for the record, the economic reality is not looking so good. I am not a Covid Denier... This virus is here to stay; the question is: at what cost?

[robogobo]

	Quote:	terrifisch
	I rarely groan...but you remind me of Trump in your callous disregard as anyone who proffers a different view from you, are idiots...or "FAKE NEWS". Perhaps, you cannot see that others have a point here? Or are you too narcissistic to think your view is the ONLY view?? PS...just so we are clear, I spent 2 months back in PA and there is no confusion on my part as to where I was or where I am (Just returned on Saturday). I may have a slightly broader perspective on this virus as to how this affects many in the US. And for the record, the economic reality is not looking so good. I am not a Covid Denier... This virus is here to stay; the question is: at what cost?

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed the point being made by k_and_e in the POST I WAS COMMENTING ON:

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I just looked it up in the dictionary. The official definition of libertarian is: person that disagrees with robogobo.

Can you point out the point I missed? I'm sure there's something very Trumpian in my omission.

Nice try. And speaking of points, what exactly is your point? You come in here for what reason? I lay out clear arguments. Sorry if you have a hard time following.

	Quote:	robogobo
	Oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed the point being made by k_and_e in the POST I WAS COMMENTING ON: Can you point out the point I missed? I'm sure there's something very Trumpian in my omission. Nice try. And speaking of points, what exactly is your point? You come in here for what reason? I lay out clear arguments. Sorry if you have a hard time following.

Just reposted my comments in the correct thread (my bad!) For the record, robogobo, you and Trump seem, to have much in common...Keep at it, I find it hilarious!

[robogobo]

	Quote:	terrifisch
	Just reposted my comments in the correct thread (my bad!) For the record, robogobo, you and Trump seem, to have much in common...Keep at it, I find it hilarious!

Seriously, get bent. You have no clue what you're talking about. Those are fighting words.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	I guess I was a bit foolish to think of anti-Cliftonian Coronavirus views as left wing .

Apparently, views about the virus itself aren't skewed to one political wing or the other, until it comes to rules around the wearing of masks, etc. Must admit, that did surprise me. Decent podcast if you have the inclination: https://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/statu...27003801792512

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Apparently, views about the virus itself aren't skewed to one political wing or the other, until it comes to rules around the wearing of masks, etc. Must admit, that did surprise me. Decent podcast if you have the inclination: https://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/statu...27003801792512

I imagine that if you adjust for age conservatives would be more Covid skeptic.