Mod shakeup

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	porsch1909
	What a strange bit of logic. Surely if you signed up there was more chance it would get traction

Probably, maybe I should have kept an open mind. Would you want to be in discussion with people that are all in agreement though? Ultimately I don't think it's the best outcome when there's already a perfectly good forum that just needed a few minor tweaks.

[Treverus]

Maybe, just maybe, we could use the situation for something more positive: Maybe Im getting old but EF has over the last 2-3 years clearly lost a bit of direction. I'm not gonna pretend that it ever was super welcoming to newcomers, there was always a bit of a cliquey thing going on. However, right now there is just generally very little going on at all (outside the predictable political threads on every topic you see come up in the news).

Is there an interest in actual social events? What should the forum be?

I for one am missing the Talacker drinks and I think the one reason I sticked around this forum even when I was abroad for some years was because it was more than a random online forum - I met many of you, including fmf, and that makes all the difference.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Only Ace has posted a PM What I was asking permission to post was neither a PM or rep comment. I also asked & got permission from the sender, who then published a PM!

You quoted his reason for the infraction which is private. Which, as far as I know, you also received as a PM.

[Susie-Q]

	Quote:	amogles
	How about giving the new mod a chance before making sweeping statements like this?

I'm happy to give him a chance and as I have said before, I have no issues with him - I just don't think it is right to give mod rights to people with strong opinions and who can be confrontational. Especially when mod rights were granted during one of those confrontations.

	Quote:	greenmount
	@Ace, it's a wonderful weather outside, you may want to take advantage of it and get a better perspective on these things.... We probably invested emotionally in this online community (in spite of our better judgement lol) but it's just more and more polarised and ridiculous.

I'm cool, thanks. The view of the Libyan Sea from our bungalow on Crete is quite calming, and honestly, this is all a bit groundhog day, so any emotional investment has long since evaporated.

I'm just anxious for the future of the forum, is all. I've put a lot of time and effort into trying to remain balanced, and have been by far the most active in the last couple of years dealing with day-to-day issues like mispostings, closing threads, merging posts and threads, approving new users etc. etc.

My worry is that with two of us gone and the others locked out, it will be down to MC, who's done very little of the donkey work, and FMF, to whom it's all new, so we might end up with more spam getting through (hey, apparently I'm still a Spam Deputy though) and inaction to try to calm the petty squabbles.

Which, I might note, seem to have largely calmed down quite a lot recently. Let's see if it stays that way.

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	This is one of the reasons why I didn't sign up, I didn't think it would get traction and also that it may become an echo chamber.

Was that with your dupe account? You weren't around when the other forums were created. At least not as TonyClifton.

What forum name did you have before you were banned?

[Treverus]

	Quote:	Susie-Q
	I'm happy to give him a chance and as I have said before, I have no issues with him - I just don't think it is right to give mod rights to people with strong opinions and who can be confrontational. Especially when mod rights were granted during one of those confrontations.

Id claim the opposite. It takes a strong opinion and the ability to not avoid necessary confrontations to manage a forum like this one. We once had a super mod who was a bit of a push-over... and the result was pure mayhem.

[Ouchboy]

	Quote:
	I'm cool, thanks. The view of the Libyan see from our bungalow on Crete is quite calming, and honestly, this is all a bit groundhog day, so any emotional investment has long since evaporated. I'm just anxious for the future of the forum, is all. I've put a lot of time and effort into trying to remain balanced, and have been by far the most active in the last couple of years dealing with day-to-day issues like mispostings, closing threads, approving new users etc. etc. Which, I might note, seem to have largely calmed down quite a lot recently. Let's see if it stays that way.

while i have had my disagreements with your style, I can't argue that you didn't put in the work. Enjoy Crete.

[Pancakes]

Maybe the Forum Overlords are just trying to f**k with all of us. Because hey, the more time we argue, the more time we spend here, which equates to more ad revenue for the EF.

[Susie-Q]

	Quote:	Treverus
	Id claim the opposite. It takes a strong opinion and the ability to not avoid necessary confrontations to manage a forum like this one. We once had a super mod who was a bit of a push-over... and the result was pure mayhem.

Strong & fair opinions with necessary confrontation are indeed good - but not biases. I've had posts deleted or been warned by mods who I know agreed with me, but they did so because it was the right thing to do and it was their duty as a moderator.

We will give it time, perhaps this will not be an issue.

[Chuff]

	Quote:	Ouchboy
	while i have had my disagreements with your style, I can't argue that you didn't put in the work. Enjoy Crete.

Ditto to these sentiments.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	You quoted his reason for the infraction which is private. Which, as far as I know, you also received as a PM.

I only posted the reason after permission, which did not form any part of a PM.

You clearly never received an infraction or warning, they have 1 of 5(?) possible reasons, a PM is sent in addition that did contain some whining that was irrelevant to the reason stated for the infraction.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Would you like me to link the post & comment? Clearly an absurd decision.

	Quote:
	Sure, fill your boots if it makes you happy.

[ennui]

	Quote:	olygirl
	A group of former posters actually created a rival forum and had it up and running. Unfortunately, there just wasn't enough interest so it all led to a lonely road with little traffic and no real significance.

As I recall, a certain long time member here had massive butthurt over something trivial and talked trash about the alternative forum. Plus other people had their panties in a twist over the loss of “loyalty” to EF. So same old shit. It was right around when the local was introduced into ef. Typical petty nonsense. It was sad.... basically nice people.

Alternative groups can co-exist. It‘s not an either or situation. To demand loyalty in such a way is controlling.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I'm just anxious for the future of the forum,

I wrote as much to Editor Bob yesterday.

[My2pups]

Yes, there were two "breakaway" attempts. Shooting the Cheese, IIRC, was launched by DaveA and some like minded folks. I think it was mostly to make a point towards the mgmt of EF and was never going to be a permanent forum.

EnglishTalk, IIRC, was a "true" effort to launch a rival forum, though not about politics (neither attempt was about politics). Some longstanding/influential members also had gotten tired of the "inner politics" of EF and decided to go elsewhere. Lots of good banter, but ultimately it was a site where some people who knew each other from the EF went to go and hang out. It was fun, but it never really had the "raison d'etre" of how to cope in CH. Ultimately, they ran out of steam and pulled the plug.

EF has always had a purpose of helping out newcomers to CH. Yes, there have been ups and downs, numerous battles between the self proclaimed "old guard" and newbies and of course... the political arena which spilled over to the Mod team. I think the EF has suffered from the loss of members from both sides of the political spectrum who have been banned or left on their own. I have been especially bothered by some of the bannings that seem politically motivated. Why ban a member permanently, short of physical threats or some clearly defined metrics? Yes, some members caused a lot of Mod time to be wasted but if a Mod is tired of cleaning up, then maybe it is time to move on... JMO

EF goes through periodic "existential crises" and I am confident that this one, too, shall pass... And if it gives cause to review why (and what) we contribute, then this is a good thing. Again, JMO.

One last thought; many procedural disagreements could be solved if Editor Bob would show up occasionally to set direction/reaffirm policy. Maybe TheLocal could give us a new EB if the old one is bored/tired with EF. Like Mods, maybe it is time to move on and bring on fresh leadership.

	Quote:	Chuff
	And "Englishtalk" was another, I believe.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	Pancakes
	Maybe the Forum Overlords are just trying to f**k with all of us. Because hey, the more time we argue, the more time we spend here, which equates to more ad revenue for the EF.

Of course they are, it happens every time.
Increased traffic in the forum is like gold to them.


I personally think that there is a different ‘Editor Bob’ now, not sure when the change occurred but the behaviour has changed significantly.

[Susie-Q]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	Of course they are, it happens every time. Increased traffic in the forum is like gold to them.

Do any of us ever click on those ads intentionally? And I for one hardly ever go to The Local as it is a mediocre news source with a paywall.

[My2pups]

LOL... Remember Treverus, there is a lot more to EF than the Off Topic section! Those of us (Treverus included) who joined EF in the early days used the EF a lot to trade tips and to socialize. Lots of curry dinners, Talacker meetups and Wife and I launched Venture Cocktail in Zurich, among other activities.

Most of my current time in EF is spent in the Off Topic forums, as I left CH some years ago and still enjoy the connection. As I spend about a month in CH every year and have close family ties, it still makes sense, though I may not be able to offer as much relevant advice to newbies. I need to see if I can change that. Long live the EF!

	Quote:	Treverus
	Maybe, just maybe, we could use the situation for something more positive: Maybe Im getting old but EF has over the last 2-3 years clearly lost a bit of direction. I'm not gonna pretend that it ever was super welcoming to newcomers, there was always a bit of a cliquey thing going on. However, right now there is just generally very little going on at all (outside the predictable political threads on every topic you see come up in the news). Is there an interest in actual social events? What should the forum be? I for one am missing the Talacker drinks and I think the one reason I sticked around this forum even when I was abroad for some years was because it was more than a random online forum - I met many of you, including fmf, and that makes all the difference.

[Patxi]

All y'all are wack.

I support EditorBob.

Full support for MC and FMF as well. They are both a bit unbalanced and maybe have a few non-conventional beliefs and that's why I like them. They might be biased but don't seem to want to wield their ban-hammers nor infraction fetishes with excessive zeal.

Full support for the rest of the mod team as well. I was only pleased with the expulsion of one of the mods: self-righteous douche that he was. Good riddance.

To the rest of you that don't like it around here: Flounce off.

SRSLY. It's a lame ass forum for expats in Switzerland. Lighten the fûck up.

[My2pups]

It can be likened to the US Supreme Court. Many Judges (of course, not all), after being appointed, move towards the center, regardless of whether they started on the Left or Right.

I agree, let's see what happens. Best of luck to FMF!

	Quote:	amogles
	How about giving the new mod a chance before making sweeping statements like this?