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  #21  
Old 25.05.2006, 14:41
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

To me, I get no commercial interest from the card. It sounds honest and friendly. But then I may start to wonder about the need for a "recruitment drive".

It's a toughie. Maybe a small-print disclaimer like "english forum is a community based moderated forum" ...I dunno. I've never been good at these things.

No doubt the promise of anonymity may also attract trolls.

just my two cents.

~ Nanda.
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  #22  
Old 25.05.2006, 16:20
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Trolls are simple to cope with....
shamelessly borrowed from somewhere else, I hope they don't mind....
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  #23  
Old 25.05.2006, 18:51
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Ok, I've spent some more time thinking about this, and I'm starting to favour the idea of the "Ausländer" front of the card, and the back as the text explanation. Why? Well I'm starting to warm to the idea of using the little characters as more of a corporate identity? Why? they are colourful, happy and simple. We can also adapt different ones into different situations. We can use them to show diversity, different skin colours, etc. I think it's a good idea to use icons of people to represent the concept of a community, because after all that's what we are!

Now the creative juices are starting to flow and I'm thinking about using the people in web banners (also animated banners), as well as using them in flyers. Eventually I could redesign the top banner of the site to somehow incorporate some of them as well. This would give a consistent feel, while allowing the flexibility to vary and adapt certain elements.

What do you all think of this idea? Going down this road will set a direction for future graphics / communications / marketing, but I think it's a good direction to go in. Any votes?
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  #24  
Old 25.05.2006, 20:21
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

I'm a yes vote. I like the original Ausländer picture and now with the glücklicher Auslanderin on the reverse, I think it's quite catchy.

(I'm not sure about the sex change but let's save that to test if people notice )

Maybe I'm alone in not liking the funky "englishforum.ch" font. I realise it's not Comic Sans, my use of "comic" was more general. Anyway, it's not big deal - I'll still hand out the cards.

=DM=
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  #25  
Old 25.05.2006, 20:43
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Hiya Mark,

I printed the version you emailed to me, to check the Ausländer picture in actual size.

Now I'm thinking that Ausländer (plural) to describe the one guy might be better as singular, or maybe have a second Auslander in the picture. I also think there are one or two too many locals in the crowd.

To solve both of these things at the same time, and to be really clever, how about having ten people all together, two of whom are foreigners? That would make a less busy picture and also be statistically correct ;-)

=DM=
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  #26  
Old 25.05.2006, 21:17
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Hi Diem,

Just before we tie ourselves in linguistic knots.... der Ausländer, die Ausländerin, die Ausländer. I think you are getting ahead of yourself there, most Ausländer wouldn't know the difference, especially since there isn't one

Yes, I did think that 1 in 14 wasn't exactly accurate (unless you live in Zollikon), but what the hell? Can't please everyone. It's just supposed to be an eye catching idea to say that one person in the crowd feels different.

Change of gender is also supposed to show that we appreciate diversity (and occassionally women too). Don't want to get jumped on by anyone do we?

Re: the font - I'm sure it will grow on you

Now onto business... Here's something I knocked up for the A4 flyer. Plan is to do both A4 and A5 sizes for people to print themselves in either colour or black and white versions.

I wrote some more text, but I'm sure the text could do with a big of re-jigging. I didn't like the way some of it was written, so those with good skills with the written word feel free to rewrite parts of it!

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  #27  
Old 25.05.2006, 21:32
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Ok, I obsessed about the back of the card a bit more. I realised (after dealing with the same problem on the flyer) that having the text line up on the left was important, so I moved the girl to the right. I also increased the margins.



Hope that's an improvement to the last one.
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  #28  
Old 25.05.2006, 22:53
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

what the hell does Ausländer mean?

Nick (in the French part of CH)
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  #29  
Old 26.05.2006, 07:59
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

foreigner... or "Out of countryman"
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  #30  
Old 26.05.2006, 08:52
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Hmmm, I guess so far we've all been displaying the classic Röstigraben behaviour and forgetting that the entire country doesn't speak German - sorry!

Ausländer is usually the first word that someone learns when they come here (at least to the German part) because it is something that they are constantly reminded of. Therefore I figured that it would be a well recognised word for all expats, but I forgot about the French part

I can't really print two versions of business cards, but I could make two versions of flyers. Can we have a quick survey from some of you in the French speaking part about whether a translation of the word would be recognisable to all expats in the french part, or whether a different word should be used?
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  #31  
Old 26.05.2006, 09:23
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

I personally think that Auslander would not be recognised here in the French part, etranger is the word we are more familiar with, mind you , if you are aiming for the English speaking community why not stick with Foreigner

Nick
PS what does "Röstigraben" mean
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  #32  
Old 26.05.2006, 09:56
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

The "Röstigraben"

See this thread for discussion on the Röstigraben.

The problem is that the word "foreigner" just doesn't have the same impact, nor prompt the same emotional response as "Ausländer", at least for those of us in the German speaking part, who hear it every single day.

Maybe the French part is a little less uptight and not obsessed about foreigners?
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  #33  
Old 26.05.2006, 11:45
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

perhaps we could use another word to cover it for all languages?
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  #34  
Old 26.05.2006, 12:52
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Mark

If you are short on Fonts, I have thousands, I can do a disk and send your way if you want? I am assuming you work on a Mac if you are a designer? the fonts are Mac fonts. I also agree with Diem on the comic style typeface......sorry maybe a less contrived and more natural handscript would work better?

Otherwise I think it all looks great

Nicky
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  #35  
Old 26.05.2006, 14:06
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

she's a designer and a Boro supporter. Say no more
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  #36  
Old 26.05.2006, 17:39
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Hi Nicky,

Yes I am short on fonts, so would appreciate the disk.. This might come as a bit of a shock, but not everyone who designs stuff does so on a mac. At least not since Adobe and other started producing their wares for the PC as well (which was quite a while ago) I can convert mac fonts, but the results aren't always 100% - but hey better than nothing!

I'm always open to suggestions - if you think I should be using a different script typeface, please suggest one. I take you agree on my reasons for not using a sans serif...
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  #37  
Old 26.05.2006, 18:12
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Hiya

I know that you can all programmes for PC's just the majority of designers use Macs just assumed you might be :-)

I can send the fonts if you let me have your address

I don't actually agree on the serif issue, but its not to say I am right, its just the legacy i have stuck to from my time at Uni, I've always tended to stick to the same font for a job, sometimes maybe using a different font for a title, but I like to use say Helvetica, frutiger, franklin etc.. and make use of all the different type face cuts. I was always told not to use more than 2 fonts per job and again its something I have stuck to....but then maybe I am just set in my ways :-)

Nicky
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  #38  
Old 26.05.2006, 18:47
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Hi Nicky,

Yes, the general rule is to never use more than 2 fonts (unless you have a good reason which you can justify). The other general rule is don't use 2 fonts from the same family, because they can clash. I'm sure you learnt that rule at uni as well. In this design there were only two fonts. Well except for the A4 page which had three, but if it's a logo, it kind of doesn't count I originally tried the englishforum.ch in Impact - believe me - it really sucked. You can find my address at my website, which is linked in my profile Thanks in advance for the CD!

By the way - I'm not a graphic designer, at least not one who is formally trained. I just tinker, and look at the work of other graphic designers (which is not always very good I might add!)
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  #39  
Old 28.05.2006, 10:36
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Just a few comments which might be of use to you, Mark, if I may...

It might be a good thought to translate "foreigner" into all 4 national languages - just out of fairness to all of the Swiss groups who alienate us. Ok, that was a wisecrack...but seriously, at least add French and maybe Italian, too.

FR is a bilingual canton, so that means the foreigners get it in 2 languages. Complaining about foreigners is definitely something which unifies the Swiss, who would otherwise disagree on most other things.

If using the French word, don't forget the accent on the e - "étranger."
un étranger (m) / une étrangère (f) / les étrangers (pl.)
If you capitalize the word, there is no longer an accent on that first e.

I like the full text you wrote. It just needs a few punctuation touches at the end. Anyone else agree?

I agree with a couple of other people - better fonts do exist. That font doesn't look wacky or fun or zany. It looks sloppy. That's my personal opinion.

I also prefer the STXihei font - I think it goes well with the text, and the images. It look clean, light, friendly, inviting, proper yet laidback. A bold font wouldn't do in this case. I'd be happy to give my feedback if anyone puts up more examples of font.

Another one (of my opinions) is that I think you should really put "www." before "englishforum.ch" to be clear (unless your goal is to keep out dull riff-raff like me! ). I always find it confusing when I don't see the "www" on web addresses.

And thanks for adding the girl - on the reverse side where she belongs, of course!
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Old 28.05.2006, 11:27
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Quote:
FR is a bilingual canton, so that means the foreigners get it in 2 languages. Complaining about foreigners is definitely something which unifies the Swiss, who would otherwise disagree on most other things.
That may be true, but remember that the target audience here is not Swiss. The thing which hopefully unifies all foreigners from all Swiss language areas is that they are made to feel like foreigners... That is the point behind the message.

Quote:
If using the French word, don't forget the accent on the e - "étranger."
un étranger (m) / une étrangère (f) / les étrangers (pl.)
If you capitalize the word, there is no longer an accent on that first e.
Thanks for that - will do. I should point out I'm only going to do a French version of the flyers which will be PDF downloads. People who want business cards will have to be content with the german text, since I am stumping up the cash for this out of my own pocket. If someone else wants to put up the cash for a French version - no problem, otherwise people in French areas will have to be content with printing their own flyers. I don't want to get into making the main message multiple languages since the impact will be lost. I know you were only joking about that, so I didn't consider it as a suggestion.

Quote:
I like the full text you wrote. It just needs a few punctuation touches at the end. Anyone else agree?
People might find it easier to agree (including me) if you specified which changes you are talking about. I've scanned through it again and it looks correctly punctuated to me. There could be some debate over whether there should be a comma between "foreigners ranging" in the second paragraph, but aside from that I didn't spot any errors. In short - concrete suggestions please.

Quote:
I agree with a couple of other people - better fonts do exist. That font doesn't look wacky or fun or zany. It looks sloppy. That's my personal opinion.
Yes I'm sure better fonts do exist, just not on my computer! So far we've had some who like it, some who don't. I personally like it, it's not the world's greatest font, but I think it works in this concept.

Just to re-iterate my earlier message - the deadline for this is Monday morning, 29th May. The reason for this deadline is because I have some other cards that have to be printed at the same time. Therefore, if anyone suggests another font, and I agree to use it, it must get to me before Monday morning. Nicky - it was a very kind offer of you to post a CD to me, and I would love to have it, but those fonts won't make it to this project!

Quote:
I also prefer the STXihei font - I think it goes well with the text, and the images. It look clean, light, friendly, inviting, proper yet laidback. A bold font wouldn't do in this case. I'd be happy to give my feedback if anyone puts up more examples of font.
You could also put up your own examples of fonts... I like the STXihei font as well. I'd love to use it, except that doing so would break one of the basic rules of typography, which I'm not prepared to do. I do appreciate that Diem took the time to post some examples of fonts that he liked, it's just that he obviously skim read the typography book I sent him a while back...

So just to re-iterate the "rules" for someone else who wants to change the font:

1. Script or Serif fonts will be considered, not sans serif
2. You must suggest something constructive and post an example of what it looks like.
3. If accepted, you must get it to me by Monday morning (suggestion: email).
4. I'm open to changing any of the 3 fonts used, but be aware there is a design and a purpose to the way the typography has been used. Some basic knowledge of typography would be a plus.
5. You should be able to give a small number of words to back up the suggestion, why it is good etc.

Quote:
Another one (of my opinions) is that I think you should really put "www." before "englishforum.ch" to be clear (unless your goal is to keep out dull riff-raff like me! ). I always find it confusing when I don't see the "www" on web addresses.
Actually, that would be a nice bonus - someone who can't figure that out will probably be the sort of person who sends me emails saying "couldn't register". But seriously - I think that the .ch is enough of a clue, especially since the text talks about the fact that we are web based. Many companies advertise without the www. Trying typing it into the browser without the www - you'll see it still works!

Quote:
And thanks for adding the girl - on the reverse side where she belongs, of course!
No thought was given to the importance of using either males or females in any given order, it's simply the way they graphics turned out. If I did want to walk on eggshells I would have also printed AusländerInnenInIInnNeeenene instead - but call me a chauvanist, I think such linguist sillyness is just plain stupid. . I do apologise that both figures are white though

Last edited by mark; 28.05.2006 at 11:30. Reason: bolded some text...
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