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  #41  
Old 28.05.2006, 11:46
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In defence of script/comic fonts

Just wanted to hop on my soapbox for a second. This post has nothing to do with the proposed design, but it more a little bit of an opinion piece on some elements of typography. If this is a boring subject for you, please skip to the next post

It is a common trait of the unwashed masses that they think that the font Comic Sans MS is "really cool". This fact is despised by most designers, to the point where they start to bristle every time they visit a website using it. I can totally understand this position.

Also, like teenagers that grow up and realise that having most of your underwear hanging out above your jeans just looks plain stupid, many computer users also realise that Comic Sans MS should not really be seen in very many places (or anywhere for that matter). Maybe there should be an "advanced" setting in each windows configuration where Comic Sans MS has to be manually enabled for advanced users?

However, I just wanted to point out that not all script or comic fonts are like Comic Sans MS. Just like not all foreigners are criminals and thieves, we shouldn't allow our predjudices to shape how we think about the other poor, honest, hard-working script fonts.

The point to this is that there are times - sometimes - when a script (or even a comic) font is appropriate for design. It's not always done in bad taste.

I hope you enjoyed my little typography rant - and remember - next time a script or comic font comes knocking at the door asking for bread and water, don't slam the door in their face.
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  #42  
Old 28.05.2006, 21:38
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

OK, solid suggestions for punctuation...
IMO, the last sentence is actually 3 sentences.

You could put periods after both "community" and "cultivated."
I know punctuation can be a rather personal thing and varies a bit in English, so I wanted to see what other people thought.

However, that might chop it up too much and dry out the friendliness of the message. Another option is to throw in the word "as" after community.

"Everyone is welcome in our communtiy as we believe..."

Maybe a cheerful exclamation mark after the "come and see for yourself?"

Last edited by Carrie; 28.05.2006 at 22:32.
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  #43  
Old 28.05.2006, 22:11
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

I know that it's us the "Ausländer/étrangers" who are the target audience, which is why wherever we live here in CH, we know how we are referred to. That was my joke - to have the word foreigner in all 4 languages - the irony of having adversity served with a side of diversity!

I don't think there needs to be a comma between "foreigners ranging" in the second paragraph. That looks fine to me - I think you can leave it as is.

Typing englishforum.ch into the browser without the www works, true. I remember a time when it was a problem.

I had a cool idea that would fairly represent the girls, but you'll have to say whether or not it's possible and time permits. I don't know how much you can tweak the graphics. Is there a way to highlight a boy and a girl from the faded crowd? Or better yet, a girl-person of color if you're feeling guilty?

None of this feedback is life-or-death. Ultimately, you've done an excellent job of getting your message across. If everything were to stay as is at this point, it's fine. Again, the written text was my favorite part!

And I'll keep it in mind to learn more about typography.
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  #44  
Old 29.05.2006, 10:02
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Deadline passed, cards sent to printers

Just for info - the deadline for changes / feedback on the cards has now passed, so I have sent them off to the printers. I expect them on Thursday. I ordered 1,000 cards.

Nicky - sorry I wasn't able to draw on your font CD for this project (since post doesn't run that fast, or on weekends), but if you could still send it to me anyway I'd appreciate it - I might be able to use some of those fonts on future projects.
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  #45  
Old 29.05.2006, 10:28
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Quote:
IMO, the last sentence is actually 3 sentences.

You could put periods after both "community" and "cultivated."
I know punctuation can be a rather personal thing and varies a bit in English, so I wanted to see what other people thought.

However, that might chop it up too much and dry out the friendliness of the message.
Let's try it:

Original:

We understand that integration is important, but we also understand that you don’t want to completely change who you are. Everyone is welcome in our community, we believe diversity is something that should be cultivated - come and see for yourself.

Changed:

We understand that integration is important, but we also understand that you don’t want to completely change who you are. Everyone is welcome in our community. We believe diversity is something that should be cultivated. Come and see for yourself.

Hmmm. Not sure if that is working. Now it does seem very short. The main point here is that the concepts were linked together before, now they are not. Come and see for yourself was linked to both of the previous concepts, now it seems loosely connected to only the second one. I think the meaning and the intention is now lost.

Quote:
"Everyone is welcome in our communtiy as we believe..."
Except if it were written like that there should really be a comma after community (co-ordinating conjunction). So if your purpose was to remove a comma by using "as" it doesn't really have that effect - sorry

Quote:
I had a cool idea that would fairly represent the girls, but you'll have to say whether or not it's possible and time permits. I don't know how much you can tweak the graphics. Is there a way to highlight a boy and a girl from the faded crowd? Or better yet, a girl-person of color if you're feeling guilty?
Ummm, I'm not really sure what you are trying to acheive here. This was just a fun idea to catch people's attention, it was never intended to turn into an exercise in political correctness or some sort of gender issue. I said in an earlier post the selection of the figures had nothing whatsoever to do with anything at all. Surely the basis of equality is to ignore gender/race, which is pretty much exactly what I'm doing. I think working ourselves into a tiz on who's on the front and who's on the back, who is black and who is white is not very useful use of time... Also, as I said earlier - highlighting two figures completely changes the entire purpose of the message, which was to focus on one isolated person in a crowd.

Actually - I'd like to make a small point here if I may... I contest that the person in the crowd is in fact a girl. Just because she has short hair, does that mean we assume she is a boy? Or a lesbian (would that be more politically correct?) Surely we shouldn't be reinforcing messages that boys should have short hair and girls long hair? Disclaimer: I have no problem whatsoever with lesbians, with long or short or no hair at all, I'm just trying to illustrate a point here.

Right - now that the girls are grossly over-represented in this design should we take steps to restore the rightful place of males to the design?

No I didn't think so.


Last edited by mark; 29.05.2006 at 23:15.
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  #46  
Old 29.05.2006, 15:06
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French assistance needed

Flyer report: OK, I've now done black and white as well as colour versions, as well as A4 and A5 sizes (with slightly different amounts of text).

The final phase is to modify the word Ausländer to French. Carrie provided us with Etranger, but now I have a further question. In the german version I split the colouring so that the "Aus" and "länder" were different colours. Is such a split possible with Etranger? Or should I leave it in one colour?
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  #47  
Old 29.05.2006, 22:04
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Re: French assistance needed

Quote:
Flyer report: OK, I've now done black and white as well as colour versions, as well as A4 and A5 sizes (with slightly different amounts of text).

The final phase is to modify the word Ausländer to French. Carrie provided us with Etranger, but now I have a further question. In the german version I split the colouring so that the "Aus" and "länder" were different colours. Is such a split possible with Etranger? Or should I leave it in one colour?
The word "étranger" has no such split that I'm aware of.
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  #48  
Old 30.05.2006, 09:20
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Flyers now available

Ok everyone - the flyers are now finished. You can jump on over to this thread and download them:

http://www.englishforum.ch/showthread.php?p=3539

Now that the flyers and business cards are out of the way, I can start on the next project - T-shirts!

My plan for the shirts is to produce the artwork as a .PDF file. The idea would be that anyone who then wanted a t-shirt could order it themselves from one of the many online shirt printing places like www.t-shirt.ch. This way you get to choose from many different styles of shirt and arrange payment and delivery directly with the company. This means that I don't have to get involved in the t-shirt printing/distribution business - which is a good thing!

My initial ideas for t-shirts:

Idea 1
Front: simple text message like "blah blah blah"
Back: englishforum.ch

Idea 2
Same as idea 1, but with the teeth from the first business card designs. I'm not sure at this stage whether this will work. Designs may have to be limited to a single colour.

Any other t-shirt ideas?
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  #49  
Old 30.05.2006, 11:03
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

"The other general rule is don't use 2 fonts from the same family, because they can clash. I'm sure you learnt that rule at uni as well."

Never actually come across that rule ever?? I regularly in type setting use for example helvetica light for body copy and helvetica bold for headings sub headings.....never in my 15 years in design have i heard that this was a typography no no

I've had visitors for the weekend and didn;t get chance to send the disk so I'll post it on sometime this week

Nicky
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  #50  
Old 30.05.2006, 19:14
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Quote:
Never actually come across that rule ever?? I regularly in type setting use for example helvetica light for body copy and helvetica bold for headings sub headings.....never in my 15 years in design have i heard that this was a typography no no
Just re-read what I wrote, when I said "family" I didn't mean like a bold and light from the same typeface. What I meant to say was "type", as in don't mix two different sans serif fonts, don't mix two serif fonts, but 1 sans serif and 1 serif is usually ok. You often see a serif used in body text and a sans serif for the headings etc. Of course you can stay in the same font and use bold, colour or whatever to create the same contrast as well, also a common trick. I think with that further explanation you probably know what I'm banging on about now

Quote:
I've had visitors for the weekend and didn;t get chance to send the disk so I'll post it on sometime this week
Cool, looking forward to it. It seems that the biggest thing missing from most people's font collections is decent big bold fonts - I've sorely missed these. I don't have any projects right now that I need fonts for, but you know what it's like. Actually... there is the t-shirt idea

Mark
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  #51  
Old 30.05.2006, 19:27
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

sorry, mis-understanding, i call a typeface a family, i.e the Helvetica family...

But yeah completely agree about not using two different serifs or san serifs on the same job!!! tsk!! a deffo No No :-)

By the time everyone has read these posts they'll be half trained typographers!!! we should keep quit or we could be talking ourselves out of a job!!
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  #52  
Old 30.05.2006, 20:21
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

fontspotting
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  #53  
Old 01.06.2006, 01:06
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Re: Flyers now available

Quote:
Any other t-shirt ideas?
Auslanders do it in English...


englishforum.ch

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  #54  
Old 06.06.2006, 16:32
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Just a quick update. Both flyers *and* visitor cards are now available. See the announcements area for more details.
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Old 06.06.2006, 16:45
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

I've updated my link to your site with the newer image
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Old 20.06.2006, 07:42
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Just an update on this subject. To date only one person has taken cards, despite many people expressing interest in this idea. Since I shelled out the cash to have them printed and I have a huge pile of them sitting here, I'm a little disappointed with the lack of uptake... It's not like I made it difficult - all you have to do is email me your address!
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Old 20.06.2006, 08:34
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

I'll take some off your hands shortly, maybe over a beer or two
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  #58  
Old 20.06.2006, 08:51
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Hi Mark,

I also took a bunch of cards that you don't know about Distributed a bunch of them at a meetup group. I'm hoping to take over as organiser of that group, so I'll be able to give out more.

Cheers,
=DM=
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  #59  
Old 20.06.2006, 16:04
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

Quote:
Hi Mark,

I also took a bunch of cards that you don't know about Distributed a bunch of them at a meetup group. I'm hoping to take over as organiser of that group, so I'll be able to give out more.

Cheers,
=DM=
Actually, I did know about it - and you were the person I counted in my above total of "one"

I received a couple of emails today (after my last post) from people giving me their addresses - so it looks like more people are getting their act together - keep the emails coming people!
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  #60  
Old 20.06.2006, 18:46
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Re: Marketing / Promotion of englishforum.ch

A free way to advertise the site would be to mention it in a travel board with a Expat forum, like thorntree.lonelyplanet.com or BootsnAll.com ...pleople search those on a regular basis.

Oh, and wouldn't the flier be more 'fun' if it was done up in the same flavor of graphics that the SVP is so found of?

stu
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