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Old 23.12.2010, 20:30
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issues with honesty

Dear All,

how to prove to someone that you are not lying to him that you are telling the truth and nothing but the truth...
the history is that you have lied to this person before times and times again...


desperate....

EJ
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Old 23.12.2010, 20:47
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Re: issues with honesty

Trust takes a very long time to build.
It can be destroyed in seconds.
Sometimes it can return, sometimes it won't.

There's no other way about it with loved ones, except to be openly honest always and deal with the consequences good or bad of whatever happens.
I think we all really believe that we are the sole players in a realtionship, while the truth, in my humble opinion, is quite the contrary. The other (whether it be a love or a relative or a friend, who ever to whom we are close) can really walk away.

If you consider the principle that as you are free to feel, the other is too, then accepting the other as she/he is, and perhaps also living with the consequences of the other's choice, is maybe a step towards healing.

He/she should not be forced to believe you, but should be free to believe you. And.... you might find some peace if you consider it really possible that the other is free not to.

Wish I could find better words to comfort you.
I can only express what I have felt having been, at different times in life, both myself and the other.
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Old 23.12.2010, 20:55
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Re: issues with honesty

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Trust takes a very long time to build.
I actually operate in the opposite way. People start with 100% of my trust. It is up to them to keep it.
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Old 23.12.2010, 21:36
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Re: issues with honesty

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Dear All,

how to prove to someone that you are not lying to him that you are telling the truth and nothing but the truth...
the history is that you have lied to this person before times and times again...


desperate....

EJ
The more you try to convince someone. the less they will believe you.

Stop trying.
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Old 23.12.2010, 21:47
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Re: issues with honesty

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Dear All,

how to prove to someone that you are not lying to him that you are telling the truth and nothing but the truth...
the history is that you have lied to this person before times and times again...


desperate....

EJ
So just to confirm, your history is that you HAVE lied to him again and again? Were they bad lies that resulted in him getting badly hurt? If so then the trust may be gone, likely never to return.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:02
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Re: issues with honesty

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I actually operate in the opposite way. People start with 100% of my trust. It is up to them to keep it.
you must be young... too young
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:08
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Re: issues with honesty

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you must be young... too young
No, I'm just honest.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:11
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Re: issues with honesty

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you must be young... too young
No: you Flavio must be very cynical!

I trust people until they break my trust, then I cut them off. No more mister nice guy, they have killed the relationship

.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:22
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Re: issues with honesty

I beg to differ isabella and Ittigen.. I'll share with a trusted person, I'll speak my private thoughts and feelings. How can that be done immediately with a person unless you have taken the time to know them ?

I might trust an amicable acquaintance with a nascent friendship, but trust as in the possibility of true attachment ? only after a very long time (regardless of the type of relationship)
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:27
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Re: issues with honesty

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I beg to differ isabella and Ittigen.. I'll share with a trusted person, I'll speak my private thoughts and feelings. How can that be done immediately with a person unless you have taken the time to know them ?

I might trust an amicable acquaintance with a nascent friendship, but trust as in the possibility of true attachment ? only after a very long time (regardless of the type of relationship)
I think what Ittigen and Isabella mean is that you generally start out with a healthy baseline of trust when beginning a relationship... this is necessary to feel comfortable enough to do all the normal and healthy things with them like share your mind and your body. Once that initial trust is damaged then the relationship inevitably changes.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:28
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Re: issues with honesty

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Old 23.12.2010, 22:30
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Re: issues with honesty

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I think what Ittigen and Isabella mean is that you generally start out with a healthy baseline of trust when beginning a relationship... this is necessary to feel comfortable enough to do all the normal and healthy things with them like share your mind and your body. Once that initial trust is damaged then the relationship inevitably changes.
So true.
And something often learned the hard way.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:43
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Re: issues with honesty

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I beg to differ isabella and Ittigen.. I'll share with a trusted person, I'll speak my private thoughts and feelings. How can that be done immediately with a person unless you have taken the time to know them ?

I might trust an amicable acquaintance with a nascent friendship, but trust as in the possibility of true attachment ? only after a very long time (regardless of the type of relationship)
When I talk about starting with 100% trust, it means being open and transparent. More than that though, it means believing in the genuineness of the other person. This is the crux of my ethos here.

And I'm similar to you in that it takes me eons to get even remotely attached to someone.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:50
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Re: issues with honesty

This manechean black or white is too superficial (oh betray the trust and you're doomed etc)
I had a fall out with a close childhood friend 2 years ago, and I didn't call back thinking that after 30+ years of friendship we finally had wandered off.
But trust and friendship were stronger. She picked up the phone and we just continued as if there had never been an issue. There was enough trust and care that being friends was just more important.
Which is why I believe that trust can only come with time.

The make or break idea is more reserved to perhaps recent relationships or friendships ?
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:52
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Re: issues with honesty

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Dear All,

how to prove to someone that you are not lying to him that you are telling the truth and nothing but the truth...
the history is that you have lied to this person before times and times again...


desperate....

EJ
The only way to prove it is to have your actions match your words. However, if you've lied often enough, and about non-trivial things, then you may have already lost the battle. Why were you lying to this person to begin with and why should they trust you now? Why the change of heart? I don't even know you and I don't even trust that your intentions are sincere or that you can not lie again.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:54
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Re: issues with honesty

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...how to prove to someone that you are not lying to him that you are telling the truth and nothing but the truth...
the history is that you have lied to this person before times and times again...
...
This problem was first written down about 2600 years ago.
"Even when liars tell the truth, they are never believed. The liar will lie once, twice, and then perish when he tells the truth."

Perhaps you could tried Sodium Pentothol.
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Old 23.12.2010, 22:59
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Re: issues with honesty

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No: you Flavio must be very cynical!

I trust people until they break my trust, then I cut them off. No more mister nice guy, they have killed the relationship

.
Good grief.....so harsh.
Ever heard of mistakes and forgiveness??
I could never think that I am so perfect as to totally rule out forgiving another when they err.
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Old 23.12.2010, 23:18
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Re: issues with honesty

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No: you Flavio must be very cynical!

I trust people until they break my trust, then I cut them off. No more mister nice guy, they have killed the relationship

.
Must be great in that ivory tower, god forbid you ever make a mistake eh Ittigen

OP. you pee'd on your cornflakes by lying in the 1st place, time I guess will be the only way forward for your partners trust issues.
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Old 23.12.2010, 23:45
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Re: issues with honesty

Monsieur Papa Goose and Mademoiselle Leni, it might be a bit of a semantics thing here. Ittigen said "break my trust." I could lose trust in someone but it doesn't mean the relationship will be severed. However, where the trust is so damaged (i.e. broken) that a relationship can't be sustained, then it's perhaps more along the lines of what Ittigen is talking about.

Always remember too that good people can do bad things.
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Old 24.12.2010, 00:10
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Re: issues with honesty

As a linguist, I am rather familiar with semantic issues and still, I find Ittigen's statement too simplistic and judgemental.
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