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  #21  
Old 31.12.2010, 13:04
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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I will stick to Eric Berne, thank you very much. He got the patterns figured out pretty well.

I think I disagree with your definition of what's important in therapy. I think it is not the relationship btw patient/therapist. Loads of them think they are some kind of gods. I think it is actually the patient realizing how much power is in his self healing. It is fast and efficient with a good, ego-less therapist, it can be as efficient without those costly sessions. One needs strength and good support network, no matter what.
Any therapist who thinks he (or she) is a God is in more need of therapy than the person they are seeing. Indeed if not psychotic they are most probably dangerous.

Central to the development of the therapeutic relationship and subsequent alliance is to help the client realise their own ability to self help and self heal. Not everyone has had the good fortune to have had a life in which they have been able to acquire these skills through everyday living. The sooner you are no longer needed by your client the more successful your work has been. You are not there to make your clients dependent on you - quite the opposite.

Central to our being human are the relationships we hold with other people. If we have had a good enough life and subsequently have good enough relationships to carry us on through life it is unlikely we would need formal therapeutic help. The majority of people who seek formal help often lack the ongoing support and help they need in their everyday lives. As a therapist you are a catalyst seeking to help your client bring about changes outside the room in which you meet. Those changes are in their current (and sometimes new) relationships. People seek to change their inner worlds in order to bring about change in their outer world.

The question of being 'egoless' in therapy is a significant one. There is a long tradition of attempting to be a 'blank screen' onto which your client can project their inner world so as to make it available for analysis. You mention Eric Berne who understood how we all occupy roles for each other in life. There is a therapeutic role which the therapist needs to know and understand. Winnicott and many of the British School of psychotherapy have long discussed Transitional Space - the intuitive unspoken link between therapist and client in therapy. There is also every opportunity for a placebo effect to be in place.

I personally believe that it is not so much what you say or do in therapy but who you are that helps your clients the most. This is something we can all do and be for each other and is above all else a matter of letting go of preconceptions. I have the good fortune to have found friends (some of whom are therapists) who have those core therapeutic attributes of being caring, emphatic and sincere. These are the people I rely on to help me through life. Not everyone has my current good fortune. There was a time when I also did not.
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  #22  
Old 31.12.2010, 15:36
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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You mention Eric Berne who understood how we all occupy roles for each other in life.
He was the king. I wouldn't mind letting him rant, fo sho. Others, I tend to be skeptical. More therapist talks, less space there is for the client.

It's New Year's Eve, it's fun to be frank.

My theory is, and I am not a specialist at all - it's all about gut feeling. If there is a gut feeling telling you, yes, this is a person, who wants to help me, than so be it. Family, friends, strangers, therapists.

And another theory, JLP is right.







The couch should be used for worthier things than yap. Ehm...

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....therapeutic attributes of being caring, emphatic and sincere...
I agree. Can you buy that for money? Honest?

EF is wonderful. It provides all this, annonymously. There are some amazing people out there.

I do like debates. I just question the motives at times, that's all.
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  #23  
Old 31.12.2010, 18:22
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Re: The patterns that we live by

I would generally spend less than 15% of the time in my room talking. And most of that time would be in asking questions and/or feeding back what I am hearing to my client to let them know what I believe I am hearing them say (and the occasional analysis). You are right to say that the couch should be available for worthier things than yap. Many of the people that I meet however tend to want to yap rather than get into what are the real issues that brought them to me. In order to challenge these defenses against change I do need to play a reasonably active part in the relationship. I doubt if I would be of much use if I sat in silence nodding occasionally. I want to get the most out of our limited time together. This does however need to be paced. Moving too fast can be counterproductive. I predominantly use my experience and intuition to sense what is right at the time for the person I am with. Most people will let me know if I am wrong.

You are totally right to trust your gut instincts. It could be argued by some that having an issue of trust with your therapist could be the very scenario that you need to have to deal with the core issue of trust that you have brought to the therapy room. In my experience few can survive such an initial issue however and it would be best for most not to proceed. Not everyone can be trusted. You may well be totally right.

Obviously you cannot buy sincere human qualities (or pretend to have them - not for long anyway). The issue of paying to see a therapist is however an issue that brings all such issues to the fore. If you have friends and family who will help you and your problems are not too severe you will not need to see someone in a professional capacity.

I do not know if there are any voluntary organisations for English speaking people in Switzerland (such as relate and the Samaritans in England). It would be useful if anyone reading this could post their contact details. As I have explained elsewhere if you can get your doctor to refer you and they can find an English speaking therapist most of the cost could be covered by your medical insurance.

At my daughter’s school I belong to a group of fathers who are the primary carers for their children. We all swop skills and abilities in order to help each other get on in life. I can contact one person (who is a mechanic) to check a car I am thinking of buying, someone else re learning to ski etc. I have helped my colleagues out on many occasions with my specific skill. I am also setting up a free support group for parents at the school dealing with problems of relocation.

I do however need to pay my rent and feed my family. This is my job and I do need to charge people to see me. I do actually have lower negotiable fees and a no fee client (these are people who cannot pay me what is the standard rate in Basel).

As someone who questions my own and other people’s motives all the time I would support you in also doing so. It is important however for everyone to do this about themselves as much as about others. It is very easy to project one’s own anger and anxieties onto others and see one’s own issues in the motivations of others.

It would however be totally unethical to explore this in any depth online here. This format unfortunately restricts any discussion of these issues to a general and inevitably limited level. Proper confidentiality requires formal therapy in a proper therapy room. I cannot be an in-depth therapist here.
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  #24  
Old 31.12.2010, 18:31
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Re: The patterns that we live by

Basel Therapist:

Do you have a problem you'd like to talk about? We'd be happy to help you (well, some of us would).
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  #25  
Old 31.12.2010, 18:47
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Re: The patterns that we live by

I can't help anyone I had some wine, besides had my help quota for this year run out.
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  #26  
Old 31.12.2010, 19:19
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]When you listen carefully even a fool has something of significance to say.
And the great thing about this oil, you see sir, is as it is made from only the most venemous snakes blood, it will cure any - and I mean any - ailment whatsoever.
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  #27  
Old 31.12.2010, 21:10
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The drivel that we are exposed to...

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Wait, I just read this post before mine... shouldn't this be posted in "job wanted"?
or under "life needed", perhaps...
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  #28  
Old 01.01.2011, 13:22
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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Basel Therapist:

Do you have a problem you'd like to talk about? We'd be happy to help you (well, some of us would).
Thank-you olygirl! You started my day with a very large laugh When I read your reply!

Fortunately I have already found some people in my life who can help me when I need it. Can I put you on my reserve list however (just in case they all go out skiing or something).
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  #29  
Old 01.01.2011, 13:26
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Re: The patterns that we live by

I think her question was a rhetoric one to see why you started the thread...
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  #30  
Old 01.01.2011, 14:21
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Re: The patterns that we live by

Having been a member on EF for the past 3-4 months I wanted to start a thread. This is the first on line forum I have belonged too and I wanted to try and find a place for myself on it. I have posted replies on other threads but haven’t been able to find anything which seemed right for me recently. I am new to both Basel and to forums so there is much for me to learn about EF. I would like to thank all those people who have done their best to educate me on this subject.
Anyway, I thought about it being the end of the year and all those New Year Resolutions etc people would be making perhaps a debate about change might be an interesting topic. There have been several threads on EF about therapy and therapy related issues. This is what I do and is my vocation. Why not post something about this? I thought people might find this interesting. The only other topic that sprang to mind was why there are so few yellow letter boxes in Basel.
Something academic or overly philosophical didn’t seem right for EF (I do read, study and discuss such stuff). Talking about what I do seemed a more real option. I was concerned about issues of confidentiality and so worked hard to keep everything about the people I meet general and unspecific so as to ensure no-one would find themselves feeling exposed. It felt ok to talk about what I do personally and how I do it in a fairly open way. In my efforts to find a ‘voice’ I thought I might try being a bit literary in how I wrote (I must admit to not being the best of writers). From some responses I gather that resulted in a ‘pop’ psychology tone.
Perhaps I should have gone with the yellow letter boxes?
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  #31  
Old 01.01.2011, 14:37
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Re: The patterns that we live by

Hi BT, I found your initial message interesting, food for thought. But then something seemed to be "off" in the approach, and people may have picked up on the uncomfortable sentiment ?

It is difficult to speak delicately about a sensitive subject such as therapy from the view-point of the professional.
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  #32  
Old 01.01.2011, 14:39
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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Having been a member on EF for the past 3-4 months I wanted to start a thread. This is the first on line forum I have belonged too and I wanted to try and find a place for myself on it. I have posted replies on other threads but haven’t been able to find anything which seemed right for me recently. I am new to both Basel and to forums so there is much for me to learn about EF. I would like to thank all those people who have done their best to educate me on this subject.
Anyway, I thought about it being the end of the year and all those New Year Resolutions etc people would be making perhaps a debate about change might be an interesting topic. There have been several threads on EF about therapy and therapy related issues. This is what I do and is my vocation. Why not post something about this? I thought people might find this interesting. The only other topic that sprang to mind was why there are so few yellow letter boxes in Basel.
Something academic or overly philosophical didn’t seem right for EF (I do read, study and discuss such stuff). Talking about what I do seemed a more real option. I was concerned about issues of confidentiality and so worked hard to keep everything about the people I meet general and unspecific so as to ensure no-one would find themselves feeling exposed. It felt ok to talk about what I do personally and how I do it in a fairly open way. In my efforts to find a ‘voice’ I thought I might try being a bit literary in how I wrote (I must admit to not being the best of writers). From some responses I gather that resulted in a ‘pop’ psychology tone.
Perhaps I should have gone with the yellow letter boxes?
Yellow boxes are alright to ask about, really. I would strongly recommend my New Year's Resolution thread! Especially if you are against making resolutions, or have some quirky ones to post. And don't be afraid to post philosophical threads, too, something I miss here too, why not..It's not always squirl eating, mullet talking, poop discussing mode here. I think people are just careful, maybe tired of lecturing and tirades. Or somebody pushing his own biz. But good discussions are always welcomed, me thinks. I wrote poorly, don't have the time to run over it. Nobody will chop your head off for some stylistic or editing errors.
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  #33  
Old 01.01.2011, 15:24
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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I will stick to Eric Berne, thank you very much. He got the patterns figured out pretty well.

I think I disagree with your definition of what's important in therapy. I think it is not the relationship btw patient/therapist. Loads of them think they are some kind of gods. I think it is actually the patient realizing how much power is in his self healing. It is fast and efficient with a good, ego-less therapist, it can be as efficient without those costly sessions. One needs strength and good support network, no matter what.
Just looked up Eric Berne and, if I understand correctly, was impressed by his "diagnosis by intuition" which I've found to be a missing factor in diagnosis.

Personally,I've just read Viktor Frankls "The reason to say yes to life" and was very impressed as he managed to survive 3 years in a KZ after losing his wife, parents and brother, by constantly asking himself what does life want from me instead of what do I want from life and what do I have to learn from my situation. He went on to found Logo therapie.

I've always managed to be my own pyschiatrist however and don't really know why other people can't seem to do this
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Old 01.01.2011, 17:00
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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Hi BT, I found your initial message interesting, food for thought. But then something seemed to be "off" in the approach, and people may have picked up on the uncomfortable sentiment ?

It is difficult to speak delicately about a sensitive subject such as therapy from the view-point of the professional.
Having never discussed these sort of issues on a forum like this I most probably wasn't quite 'on' in the approach. Hopefully in time I'll work out my voice.

Thank-you for such constructive feedback!
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Old 01.01.2011, 17:10
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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Yellow boxes are alright to ask about, really. I would strongly recommend my New Year's Resolution thread! Especially if you are against making resolutions, or have some quirky ones to post. And don't be afraid to post philosophical threads, too, something I miss here too, why not..It's not always squirl eating, mullet talking, poop discussing mode here. I think people are just careful, maybe tired of lecturing and tirades. Or somebody pushing his own biz. But good discussions are always welcomed, me thinks. I wrote poorly, don't have the time to run over it. Nobody will chop your head off for some stylistic or editing errors.
It would be nice to get a few more adult tone threads and a bit more thoughtfulness in debates. Prehaps that could be a new year resolution (or not)!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
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  #36  
Old 01.01.2011, 17:17
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Re: The patterns that we live by

If your native language is English but you thought 42 was a reference to anything other than Douglas Adams, I wonder what your nationality is or I wonder if I am just clueless myself?
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Old 01.01.2011, 17:19
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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Just looked up Eric Berne and, if I understand correctly, was impressed by his "diagnosis by intuition" which I've found to be a missing factor in diagnosis.

Personally,I've just read Viktor Frankls "The reason to say yes to life" and was very impressed as he managed to survive 3 years in a KZ after losing his wife, parents and brother, by constantly asking himself what does life want from me instead of what do I want from life and what do I have to learn from my situation. He went on to found Logo therapie.

I've always managed to be my own pyschiatrist however and don't really know why other people can't seem to do this
I have sent out Viktor Frankl's 'Mans Search For Meaning, to dozens of people as a birthday Present. He is an exceptional man and it is well worth reading his books.
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  #38  
Old 01.01.2011, 17:21
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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If your native language is English but you thought 42 was a reference to anything other than Douglas Adams, I wonder what your nationality is or I wonder if I am just clueless myself?
This may have been a somewhat classic Freudian slip on my behalf!
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  #39  
Old 01.01.2011, 17:31
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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If your native language is English but you thought 42 was a reference to anything other than Douglas Adams, I wonder what your nationality is or I wonder if I am just clueless myself?
Well, my mother tongue is English and I hadn't a clue what that was about until I looked it up. One could say a lack of general knowledge on my part... but there are other things higher up my priority list.
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Old 01.01.2011, 18:03
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Re: The patterns that we live by

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It would be nice to get a few more adult tone threads and a bit more thoughtfulness in debates. Prehaps that could be a new year resolution (or not)!
Whe one realizes we are all adults, mostly , in our daily lives and existence and you take this as a mini playground aside of the helping out and info bit, it is easier to just chill..This does not represent people's business or how seriously they really live or take life, despite the fact that most people show off to some extent. There have been some decent debates here, with humor and insincere tones, but overall, it is mainly the way you look at inet comunication, with a grain of salt. I understand having job you have, lot of people do here, some part I do daily too and it is hard to laugh. But there really is a specific sense of humor here, or, not taking oneself too seriously. Whatcha think?

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Personally,I've just read Viktor Frankls "The reason to say yes to life" and was very impressed as he managed to survive 3 years in a KZ after losing his wife, parents and brother, by constantly asking himself what does life want from me instead of what do I want from life and what do I have to learn from my situation. He went on to found Logo therapie.
He is fascinating. I need to read up on him. I take him somewhat an oposing pole that very tangible Berne, he was so uncanily tangible and uber realistic, Frankl seems more of a humanist, philosopher, plus he was a catholic...Two good poles, no?

You know, one of the most influential people in my life is another Auschwitz survivor, he is a writer and I met him through writing courses we organized. There is a strange outlook on life, strange in way that we do cause a lot of the confusion in our lives ourselves. He is very noble and crass, he has his own morals and evil sense of humor. Or maybe that's just being Jewish. I have been working on translating his short story and it is so heartbreaking, I wonder if I ever finish this work. If people can get hold of Arnost Lustig, read him, it is cathartic.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 01.01.2011 at 18:44.
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