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Old 13.02.2011, 11:43
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BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

I am considering buying one but I am worried about the rear wheel drive on snow (i.e. on winter road trips to the mountains). In the UK we don't have winter tyres so I can't get really useful feedback from review websites.

Does anyone have one of these or had experience and give a quick insight into whether I am worrying about nothing....
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Old 13.02.2011, 11:51
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi

I would suggest you buy one with XD which is the 4 wheel drive version, it makes a hell of a lot of difference on the snow even on a BMW. some
of the other series for example the Z4 and the 5 series have almost a traction control which basically will stop the car sliding, for example the rear of the car may slide 5% out but the car will gain traction again and pull the car straight again, always in control.

I would suggest the xd version,

hope this helps
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Old 13.02.2011, 11:59
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

Thanks Scotty. Its a More4you model which comes with extras but I think that just covers interior spec and sunroof etc. I thought a lot of cars had traction control nowadays so will check this out.

Really like the car though but now I'm getting doubts....
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Old 13.02.2011, 12:41
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi

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I would suggest you buy one with XD which is the 4 wheel drive version, it makes a hell of a lot of difference on the snow even on a BMW. some
of the other series for example the Z4 and the 5 series have almost a traction control which basically will stop the car sliding, for example the rear of the car may slide 5% out but the car will gain traction again and pull the car straight again, always in control.

I would suggest the xd version,

hope this helps
Scotty, traction control does not stop slides. It tries to prevent skidding.
No equipment is going to stop a slide on ice, snow or water once the slide begins. Traction control affects wheels that are slipping, not sliding. ABS, ESR ASR or whatever you have by any other name, all attempt to prevent a skid, or a slip but once the vehicle is in a slide, it is by definition 'out of control'. No driver aids will regain control of the car, the best they can do is cut the power to the wheels or brake certain wheels and the untrained driver will just sit and wait until the car stops sliding, at best they may attempt to reduce the time the car is in a slide by regaining traction whenever the road surface and conditions permits. On ice and snow that is briefly and intermittently. Driver training and skid avoidance is the best you can do. Cars attempt to control skids. Only the driver can attempt slide control. That said, Volvo and Mercedes are prototyping devices that take control of the steering to avoid slides, but nothing yet to control slides.
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Old 13.02.2011, 12:45
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

yeah they do have traction control, but on certain specs of bmw's the car will not allow the back of the car to step out past a certain point, when the cars reaches a certain point it will regain traction to which ever wheels, on normal cars it is just a traction control to stop you skidding
but if the skidding is too much it will carry on slipping,

it sounds like you are looking at a bmw with some extras, but i mean what is your price range, it might be worth looking at a 4x4 instead or you desperate for a bmw?
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Old 13.02.2011, 12:50
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi

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Scotty, traction control does not stop slides. It tries to prevent skidding.
No equipment is going to stop a slide on ice, snow or water once the slide begins. Traction control affects wheels that are slipping, not sliding. ABS, ESR ASR or whatever you have by any other name, all attempt to prevent a skid, or a slip but once the vehicle is in a slide, it is by definition 'out of control'. No driver aids will regain control of the car, the best they can do is cut the power to the wheels or brake certain wheels and the untrained driver will just sit and wait until the car stops sliding, at best they may attempt to reduce the time the car is in a slide by regaining traction whenever the road surface and conditions permits. On ice and snow that is briefly and intermittently. Driver training and skid avoidance is the best you can do. Cars attempt to control skids. Only the driver can attempt slide control. That said, Volvo and Mercedes are prototyping devices that take control of the steering to avoid slides, but nothing yet to control slides.
I apologise, its a Anti-Skid Control which I was writting about
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Old 13.02.2011, 12:54
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

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yeah they do have traction control, but on certain specs of bmw's the car will not allow the back of the car to step out past a certain point, when the cars reaches a certain point it will regain traction to which ever wheels, on normal cars it is just a traction control to stop you skidding
but if the skidding is too much it will carry on slipping,

it sounds like you are looking at a bmw with some extras, but i mean what is your price range, it might be worth looking at a 4x4 instead or you desperate for a bmw?
"will not allow" ??? Get yourself on an advanced drivers course. I will show you my friends called inertia and mass that will put any car into a slide regardless of any fancy driver aids. BMW's are not able to beat the laws of physics. You have a dangerous trust in these aids, and if followed blindly, will get you into lots of trouble.

One easy example for you.

Your car is rolling down hill on roads with ice . No power is being sent to the wheels, therefore any device that cuts power is now useless. Immediately lock the steering wheel to the left or the right, perhaps an over-reaction to an obstacle or hazzard. The front wheels steering lose grip on the ice, steering is impossible, ABS is hopeless because the wheels are not slipping, they are stationary, not even turning just sliding. No wheels are turning, no wheels are getting power, the car is now in a slide, the back end is coming round. Every little electronic acronym in the sales manual is now useless.

Please explain to me how your God like BMW is going to get this car under control ?
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:01
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

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I am considering buying one but I am worried about the rear wheel drive on snow (i.e. on winter road trips to the mountains). In the UK we don't have winter tyres so I can't get really useful feedback from review websites.
Does anyone have one of these or had experience and give a quick insight into whether I am worrying about nothing....
I had one of these without and a 3series sedan with 4WD. With proper winter tyres and a lot of weight in the trunk the touring mastered almost the same roads covered in snow. Unless you are driving on really treacherous conditions regularly a set of snow chains should work for you as well.
However, it was safer to drive the 4WD, not only on snow but also in heavy rain (the Swiss highways are not great in quickly draining water off the tarmac).
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:03
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

Our price range is up to 25k.

We've been looking at estates rather than 4x4s, we don't see ourselves needing a 4x4. We live in Basel and will be doing the odd trip in the winter to the mountains - but not enough to warrant a 4x4, and for our budget you aren't getting a great 4x4.

I want the BMW because its a good deal (guy is moving to America so needs a quick sale), so its just an opportunity really rather than a must have. Its a lot smarter than the alternatives we have been looking at. Because of the model type it has leather interior, big sunroof, sat nav etc.

The next best alternative is a VW Passat - which we like and would probably go for if I get scared away by the rear wheel drive issue.

Summary - its a smart car I have fallen for but am concerned about getting stuck in the snow either around town or on a trip to the mountains.
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:07
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

You may also want to check the tyre size on this particular car: The narrower the tyre the better it will handle on snow (all other factors like winter/summer tyres, profile etc being equal).

EDIT: I was referring to traction. On second thought the braking might be better on a wider tyre.
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:16
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

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"will not allow" ??? Get yourself on an advanced drivers course. I will show you my friends called inertia and mass that will put any car into a slide regardless of any fancy driver aids. BMW's are not able to beat the laws of physics. You have a dangerous trust in these aids, and if followed blindly, will get you into lots of trouble.

One easy example for you.

Your car is rolling down hill on roads with ice . No power is being sent to the wheels, therefore any device that cuts power is now useless. Immediately lock the steering wheel to the left or the right, perhaps an over-reaction to an obstacle or hazzard. The front wheels steering lose grip on the ice, steering is impossible, ABS is hopeless because the wheels are not slipping, they are stationary, not even turning just sliding. No wheels are turning, no wheels are getting power, the car is now in a slide, the back end is coming round. Every little electronic acronym in the sales manual is now useless.

Please explain to me how your God like BMW is going to get this car under control ?
yawn
It's amazing what people do on a sunday afternoon to get people to give them attention because no one else wants to talk to them, poor you
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:18
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

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Our price range is up to 25k.

We've been looking at estates rather than 4x4s, we don't see ourselves needing a 4x4. We live in Basel and will be doing the odd trip in the winter to the mountains - but not enough to warrant a 4x4, and for our budget you aren't getting a great 4x4.

I want the BMW because its a good deal (guy is moving to America so needs a quick sale), so its just an opportunity really rather than a must have. Its a lot smarter than the alternatives we have been looking at. Because of the model type it has leather interior, big sunroof, sat nav etc.

The next best alternative is a VW Passat - which we like and would probably go for if I get scared away by the rear wheel drive issue.

Summary - its a smart car I have fallen for but am concerned about getting stuck in the snow either around town or on a trip to the mountains.
to be totally honest with you, i think you will be fine with any purchase, having four wheel drive would help in some respect.

Some other considerations would be maybe a volvo xc90 or the baby version xc80, or maybe a volkswagen tiguan,

good luck with your search
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:32
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

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yawn
It's amazing what people do on a sunday afternoon to get people to give them attention because no one else wants to talk to them, poor you
It's also amazing what tripe people spout on a Sunday afternoon and then when their spouting are proved to be tripe, they then continue with even more tripe...
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:45
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

Hey guys lets not get into a brawl huh?!! only room for peace and love in my thread

Thanks for offering opinion and help xkcd and scotty.
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:49
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

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It's also amazing what tripe people spout on a Sunday afternoon and then when their spouting are proved to be tripe, they then continue with even more tripe...
But this was your only contribution to this thread???????

interesting
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Old 13.02.2011, 13:50
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

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"will not allow" ??? Get yourself on an advanced drivers course. I will show you my friends called inertia and mass that will put any car into a slide regardless of any fancy driver aids. BMW's are not able to beat the laws of physics. You have a dangerous trust in these aids, and if followed blindly, will get you into lots of trouble.

One easy example for you.

Your car is rolling down hill on roads with ice . No power is being sent to the wheels, therefore any device that cuts power is now useless. Immediately lock the steering wheel to the left or the right, perhaps an over-reaction to an obstacle or hazzard. The front wheels steering lose grip on the ice, steering is impossible, ABS is hopeless because the wheels are not slipping, they are stationary, not even turning just sliding. No wheels are turning, no wheels are getting power, the car is now in a slide, the back end is coming round. Every little electronic acronym in the sales manual is now useless.

Please explain to me how your God like BMW is going to get this car under control ?
and you haven't actually contributed to this thread either but hey, i just talk tripe
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Old 13.02.2011, 14:09
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

What model is it and 4 or 6 cylinder engine? I only had very few situations this year that the rear wheel drive would struggle in the snow, usually beginning of winter and few times when the roads were completely covered with snow. It's annoying but you can use DSC/DTC in such situations. I went to the mountains few times and never really lost traction there. I'm happy with the rear wheel drive in normal situations on the road. It handles beautifully and brakes very effectively. If you believe you will drive in the snow a lot though, I would go for xDrive. There should be plenty to be found on www.autoscout24.ch
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Old 13.02.2011, 14:18
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

Its 4 cylinder.
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Old 13.02.2011, 14:23
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

It depends what you want to do with your car. Even with snow tyres it is certainly going to be more hassle with rear wheel drive. I live up a hill in Zürich and I have noticed that rear wheel drive cars do struggle in snowy an icy conditions. I would go for the sensible option you mentioned. It would be rather irritating to find that your BMW was dictating where you want to go in winter time.
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Old 13.02.2011, 14:30
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Re: BMW 3 series touring combi (ie: rear wheel drive in the snow?)

Nixi I think you have posted what deep down I know. Its such a nice car though...
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