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  #61  
Old 09.05.2011, 15:56
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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Speaking as a west-European, I have no idea if "catholic" or "protestant" are used as insults in other areas of the globe.

Jew, on the other hand, is a common insult that can vary in degree, according to context. It usually means "greedy" or "perverse".

The reason for this has to do with the history of the Jewish community in Europe, mainly in Catholic countries, and its roots are strongly based on the racism and general misconception of the Middle Ages. Jews were seen as greedy and extortionists because they could lend money, while Catholics were forbidden by law (at least in theory). They were considered sorceress/ perverse people who killed children and stole the body of Christ during Easter with the only intention to aggravate the catholic population.

Nowadays, the use of “Jew” as an insult is no longer as offensive to the name-called as a couple of decades ago, but it is nevertheless offensive to the Jew community that is actually still used as an insult, because it is based on misconceptions and very nasty wrong stereotypes.

If you want to call someone a greedy bastard, why not just using that? Common sense is a very wonderful thing... You can insult people in so many "wonderful" ways without disrespecting a certain ethnic / sexual preference group...


But then again, why would we need to insult anyone here in the forum? Why can't we be friends? *sing* Why can't we be friends?
i totally agree. i never say jew i say you greedy bastard and i love your avatar too
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  #62  
Old 09.05.2011, 15:59
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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Other than the animal that produces the milk for the best mozzarella, or a motorcycle, what is a 'water buffalo'?

Tom
see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo_incident

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Hey there Ouchboy, I disagree with the above cartoon, and although I'm the world's most super deluxe South Park fan, I do disagree with that episode.
You're a fag, then...

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Should we cater to the ignorance of others? Yeah. A bit, anyway. Also, there's a spot of logic to it (as if we really required any).
Going reductio ad absurdum on that premise, I would need to end up speaking like a sesame street character to everyone I meet. censoring oneself in that point on the hopes of not offening anyone would severly limit speech, you cannot say it offends X, you cannot say that it offends Y.
Any word can be used to hurt anyone.
y
you have been blacklisted
He is blackmailing me.
"jeez , why do you have to me such a mod about it."
"as tightass as a mod"

I made it a habit of mine to mess with teachers by talking to them in formal 2nd person in spanish. I did it with the full intention of annoy and disrepect, and I never used a single bad, offensive word.


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"Hey, don't call me a dirty Jew - that's anti Semitic!".

"Ha! That's where you're wrong. Language has evolved. Right now, it means anyone who's miserly, greedy and with a big nose. It has nothing to do with actual Jews, irrespective of their cleanliness."
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Is he being anti-Semitic, even though he is insulting, in this case, an Irish Catholic? Yes, of course. He is using a term of racial hate to express the pejorative nature of something else. If anything, it becomes even more offensive.
It's the intent behind it that counts. Someone seems to have agreed with me or give the benefit of the doubt at least. Dave Chapelle more or less agrees, when he talks in the actor's studio about the Nigga'rs episode. He feels like he wants to fight people, but he understands that it is not racially motivated when they congratulate him on the skit.

Tarantino says on the word "nigger"

"I feel that the word, 'nigger,' is one of the most volatile words in the
English language, and any time anyone gives a word that much power, I think
everybody should be shouting it from the rooftops to take the power away."


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What South Park is really saying is that we find homosexuals so disgusting that the pejorative word used to describe them has now evolved to become a pejorative word to describe a whole variety of things.

Now how offensive is that?

But they are not, what they ARE saying is that infact you are not relating it to sexual activity, it has changed from that meaning. The same way that, it was before someone was really gay and now they were homosexuals.

I more or less with Tim Shriver regarding the "R" word, as in petition someone to not use it. I would tend to drop it from my vernacular if it turns out to be so inneficient the message actually doesn't get accross.


This all came up, by the way, because someone complained about my old signature. Mind you that i was not faced directly with such complain but by one of the mods. Since said mod asked very nicely and I had my fun, I removed it. But you have to wonder which attitude could be/is more problematic, me pointint out a word, or something not standing up and saying :" I have a problem with it".
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  #63  
Old 09.05.2011, 16:02
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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it might incite some sectarian violence but i dont think a court would hold it as anti proddie or anti catholic whereas anti semitic is well known
The catholics consider it enough of a problem to have an anti defamation league, not sure about the protestants.

Wikipedia reference-linkCatholic League
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  #64  
Old 09.05.2011, 16:28
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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i totally agree. i never say jew i say you greedy bastard and i love your avatar too

That offends those who are born with parents out of wedlock!

What does the marital status of ones parents have to done with the greediness of their offspring.

OFFENDED!!!!
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  #65  
Old 09.05.2011, 16:34
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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Are you sure it isn't? Pretty sure they'll be places where calling someone a protestant or a catholic could cause insult.
oh yeah? where?
...Belfast/Glasgow examples given...

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it might incite some sectarian violence but i dont think a court would hold it as anti proddie or anti catholic whereas anti semitic is well known
You didn't ask if it would hold water in a court of law (though I reckon in in the current PC attitude in the UK, it probably would), you questioned whether it would cause insult.

It would if used in the right, or wrong - if you prefer - context.
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  #66  
Old 09.05.2011, 16:41
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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So you ARE advocating that you should cater to other people's ignorance and bias when speaking.
I think your question is the oldest question since people decided to use certain terms for certain things. Completely forget the vulgarisms and offensiveness, but realize that language functions based on a contract. People agree that certain words in majority of the usage have mostly specific meaning. If you somehow decide to use the word in another meaning, nobody is going to ask you for explanation, but most probably take it differently than you meant it. If 99% of people use some words in a negative way, since it has been lately used in certain negative context (frequence wise) your special context isn't going to change their perception unless you publish a special manual on how to decipher Ouchboy's vocab. That kind of person specific lingo is called idiolect. Your buddies will know it, but a random reader here won't.

General formulaic greetings for example - the most schematic phrases...You might not like a certain greeting so you invent another. People will give you bewildered looks. Just because you meant to use your special code, or the same code but with associate different meanings (less offensive), it is not going to change the history, the etymology, the way people have been recently perceiving it, etc. I know you might think it is the intent that counts, but I don't think so. It's about how people hear it. You use a questionable word, then you have to deal with the consequences. Unless you put a disclaimer at all your posts and spoken sentences or wear a t-shirt saying "Ouchboy is a nice guy". We tend to forget that spoken innocent dialogue or debate is a different thing than having things typed out for ever here. It's quite official, even though we would like to think it is just some chitchat.

By the way, fab Swiss linguist Ferdinand de Saussure is famous exactly for these thoughts on language, standardizing semiotics, etc.

With vulgarisms, taboo words or trying to reincarnate some terms and cause revolution with anti pc language...good luck. And get it over with, since trying to shock gets old really quickly.

Re: having things modded. We all have different pc filters and different personal priorities, I think. Some are allergic to typos, some to serious grammar mistakes, some get peeved by inappropriate lingo, potentially inflammatory terms, etc. It's ok. I think South Park is alrite, since it is so obviously programmed to offend, but can see others objecting. I, personally, do not like to see certain racist terms written for good, since I think as a society we are not over the struggle, just yet.

I like your inovative ways with the term mod.

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Jew, on the other hand, is a common insult that can vary in degree, according to context. It usually means "greedy" or "perverse".
Are you sure it means "perverse"?
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  #67  
Old 09.05.2011, 16:45
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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That offends those who are born with parents out of wedlock!

What does the marital status of ones parents have to done with the greediness of their offspring.

OFFENDED!!!!
Shame on me!! That’s why I could never be a politician! I would end up offending the whole world without noticing!
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  #68  
Old 09.05.2011, 16:55
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

Yes, MusicChick, "Jew" in my mother tongue (Judeu) is also used as a synonim to "extremely devious/ evil person" or "perverse" (might not work in Enlgish though). According to Middle Age tradition it was the Jews who got Christ on the cross (even though we know it was just the Romans), and nothing could be worse that being responsible for the death of the Saviour. It was also believed that Jews stole the "body of Christ" (the mass bread) for sorcery preformed during Easter, they kidnapped christian children and ate their hearts, and it was also the Jews that caused the Black Plague by poisonning the water wells in Europe. Even though all of this is utter nonsense, a Pope Bula was needed to prove the Jews were innocent, but by then it was too late and Jews were seen not only as greedy bastards but also as perverted evil people. It was also too late for the hundreds of Jews that ended up in a pire in Germany and Italy.

If you would like to read about the real laws that lead to some of this non-sense, I advise you the book "The Cathedra of the Sea". It's about Spain, but the rules in Portugal were not very different.

My great-aunt was a Jew, so I now how much she suffered, because people always thought that because of her believes she was an evil witch. I look back and I am happy at least in that sense our community evolved to the best
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  #69  
Old 09.05.2011, 16:57
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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If 99% of people use some words in a negative way, since it has been lately used in certain negative context (frequence wise) your special context isn't going to change their perception unless you publish a special manual on how to decipher Ouchboy's vocab. That kind of person specific lingo is called idiolect. Your buddies will know it, but a random reader here won't.
I'd like to point out to what chemmie did, now is my grandma using idiolect(?) if she complains about bastard?. People threw it here like nothing.
@ 103+ million users between xbox live and PSN plus another unestimated account of PC users, I'd hardly think it' a special context anymore. a playing console is a common household objects nowadays.

messages like : camping fag, and sprayin ghost fag, go and come around the Network a lot. So you have to wonder if it is that we are on the transition of the word.

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Re: having things modded. We all have different pc filters and different personal priorities, I think. Some are allergic to typos, some to serious grammar mistakes, some get peeved by inappropriate lingo, potentially inflammatory terms, etc. It's ok. I think South Park is alrite, since it is so obviously programmed to offend, but can see others objecting. I, personally, do not like to see certain racist terms written for good, since I think as a society we are not over the struggle, just yet.
I don't mind the mod intervention, it was politely and eloquently asked.
I have an issue with someone who says he is offended but goes behind a mod (assuming of course there was such person(s)) to do something.


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I like your inovative ways with the term mod.

I could have said:

I just shot that guy in the face! that was so MusicChick!
Or
She's a Musicchick in the works; i better marry her now.
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  #70  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:02
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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She's a Musicchick in the works; i better marry her now.
Would definitely cure your pre-midlife crisis boredom, but you will have the unmistakeable look of a lunatic in your eye forever more. (Just be careful not to call 5 string basses gay... even though they totally are.)

This thread is modtastic.

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  #71  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:04
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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messages like : camping fag, and sprayin ghost fag, go and come around the Network a lot. So you have to wonder if it is that we are on the transition of the word.
From my experience, the largest users of online systems are teenage boys, you don't think they're using the term "fag" interchangebly with "ghey"? That in fact, it hasn't lost it's original connotation at all. It's mostly a bunch of kids calling each other gays, and knowingly so.
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  #72  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:07
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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From my experience, the largest users of online systems are teenage boys, you don't think they're using the term "fag" interchangebly with "ghey"? That in fact, it hasn't lost it's original connotation at all. It's mostly a bunch of kids calling each other gays, and knowingly so.
In the context of the PM'S more or less no. It's like the Vince vaughn comment electric cars are gay, not "homosexual" gay, but -your parents going to the pr m with you- gay.


I admit Some of them do. I mean I've been killed by my own teammates in hardcore matches for using it as a clan tag. and I LMAO!

EDIT: 2 years ago PSN users were profiled as 28 year old educated, moneyed users. that was back when 12.5 M were in it.

Last edited by Ouchboy; 09.05.2011 at 17:21.
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  #73  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:09
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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From my experience, the largest users of online systems are teenage boys, you don't think they're using the term "fag" interchangebly with "ghey"? That in fact, it hasn't lost it's original connotation at all. It's mostly a bunch of kids calling each other gays, and knowingly so.

This is very true---teenage boys, but a good percent of all teenage boys, who are the next generation of men, and when they use that language and they have been used to using it-without any context to earlier meanings, we will just be the old grumpy seniors complaining about "back in my day".
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  #74  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:10
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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It usually means "greedy" or "perverse".
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"Jew" in my mother tongue (Judeu) is also used as a synonim to "extremely devious/ evil person" or "perverse" (might not work in Enlgish though).
Yeah, I was thinking it certainly isn't used synonymously to "perverse" in English. Your poor aunt, I will eat a chocolate bar now in her honor.

I know people use still use it in racial slur way, but the ones I have heard face to face were quite immature. Just parroting ways they heard at home...really. Which I think is the point of that South Park character flaw
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  #75  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:24
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

eh eh, if you don't give me a bite from that chocolate bar I'm going to call you a jew... I mean... a greedy bastard... I mean... GIMME SOME CANDY!!!!
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  #76  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:26
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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"Jew" in my mother tongue (Judeu) is also used as a synonim to "extremely devious/ evil person" or "perverse" (might not work in Enlgish though).
Were you born in 13th Century Cordoba or do you mean by some people.
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  #77  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:28
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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EDIT: 2 years ago PSN users were profiled as 28 year old educated, moneyed users. that was back when 12.5 M were in it.
It is the most expensive of the consoles.
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  #78  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:33
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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Would definitely cure your pre-midlife crisis boredom, but you will have the unmistakeable look of a lunatic in your eye forever more.
Bah, that's your Fernets!

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One day, somebody will appreciate my 5-string, heavy metal baby. It's about the warm fuzzy sound, the thump of the low B, aaaah . Call it whateva.

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@ 103+ million users between xbox live and PSN plus another unestimated account of PC users, I'd hardly think it' a special context anymore. a playing console is a common household objects nowadays.
Honestly I think it is more a success of a marketing scheme rather than a sign of some serious linguistic revolution (and you should get out more, really, all this gaming, nuts!). It will be forgotten, I am sure, in a few years. Take Barbie that some people played with a little too much. I have been called conceited Barbie so many times. Am I gonna shoot myself for that? Nope. And now, people don't even want to get Barbie for their kids anymore, it's embarrassing for some. I bet in a few years you will chuck your toys.

All this noise coz somebody reported you post...I am sure you won't lose your sleep over it. Happens to the best of us .

We won't mind you calling my bass names, if you see us in action.
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  #79  
Old 09.05.2011, 17:39
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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(and you should get out more, really, all this gaming, nuts!) .

I can't play, PSN is down. And it totall I have only played 4d 20h or so (Black Ops that is). gaming is done from 2300 to 0200
And I do get out, mostly when there is no food in the fridge, but that's besides the point.

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All this noise coz somebody reported you post...I am sure you won't lose your sleep over it. Happens to the best of us .
It's just my question of why people get so bent out of shapes about words. To "report" it (can you report a signature?) and not be able to speak up on a forum. Also, I cannot post funny pics like the Stalin one, or disaster girl.... Why should this forum be deprived of laughter!!!

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We won't mind you calling my bass names, if you see us in action.
I shall name your bass " The Rutten"
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Old 09.05.2011, 18:49
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Re: the F word: hopefully a serious discussion will ensue...

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The catholics consider it enough of a problem to have an anti defamation league, not sure about the protestants.

Wikipedia reference-linkCatholic League
We don't care. Like being British, we know we're superior and everyone else is just jealous.

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Yes, MusicChick, "Jew" in my mother tongue (Judeu) is also used as a synonim to "extremely devious/ evil person" or "perverse" (might not work in Enlgish though). According to Middle Age tradition it was the Jews who got Christ on the cross (even though we know it was just the Romans), and nothing could be worse that being responsible for the death of the Saviour. It was also believed that Jews stole the "body of Christ" (the mass bread) for sorcery preformed during Easter, they kidnapped christian children and ate their hearts... Even though all of this is utter nonsense,...
Sadly the blood libel/Protocols of Zion is still current in many Arab and Muslim countries.
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