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  #21  
Old 21.04.2011, 14:11
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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its in the t&c's, so not hidden, is it there fault people don't read it??
Quite frankly, yes, in fact they've become so common, almost everyones reaction is to just click "agree", they're non sensical legal jargan no one can understand, it's not an excuse to bury dodgy clauses in legalese.
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  #22  
Old 21.04.2011, 14:20
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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Do you have an iPhone? Have you seen how the t&cs are presented to you? Yes, it is Apple's fault: The t&cs are massive, literally 50 thousand words. That's a book if you would print it. Writing anything in there is a legal matter, but not and open communication to their customers.

I am not saying that Apple is a regime. I am saying that they make a hidden profile of my movements on my PC. Any regime that wants to has so the tool to control me better. Concrete example: The German police had a long discussion and by now has a "federal troyan" - an "official" computer virus they can use to spy on terror suspects' PCs. How convenient is it to have his movement history on that PC!
From there it is really not that hard to see how the same thing that might be good in the hands of one country fighting terrorism can get pretty quickly into a tool that helps less friendly countries suppress people.
I think that a record of your position stored over years is an absolutely breach of trust for me. I am an Apple fan, I have a Mac, iPhone, iPod... and my next pc will be a Mac again. My next phone? Not so sure.

yes I have an iphone, am I bothered about this data caching, nope, not in the slightest.

I doubt apple will ever do anything with this data, if they harvested it there would be so much it would be useless.

I've worked for mobile phone operators in the past and present, and I can say with 100% confidence that unless 'they' are already looking for you then 'they' really couldn't give a stuff about where you have been or what you have been doing, 'they' don't just pick random people to spy on for a laugh and especially here its a real ball ache for the authorities to get any sort of access to your data.

as for less friendly countries, they would already know where the people are, if they have a mobile phone then they know within (upto) a few meters where you are, who you text, where you surf and can listen into your calls, all from the comfort of there own office.
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  #23  
Old 21.04.2011, 14:40
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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I've worked for mobile phone operators in the past and present, and I can say with 100% confidence that unless 'they' are already looking for you then 'they' really couldn't give a stuff about where you have been or what you have been doing, 'they' don't just pick random people to spy on for a laugh and especially here its a real ball ache for the authorities to get any sort of access to your data.
You know... I have worked for operators as well and currently work on data mining solutions based on all the data you can monitor in networks. That's far more than only some location updates. And while I very well know how much "the man" knows about you when he cares to look... I am still worried about this particular case:
You cannot store all information for very practical reasons. The question is: What data do I keep? How long? This file is a profile for a single subscriber and apparently only includes cells and time - but over a long period. Honestly: For marketing activities is this info in this form pretty much useless. I don' need to know where ONE guy has been, I need to monitor mass movements, pretty much like you monitor traffic jams. But this is different and I have the feeling that Apple is there still at the beginning. The beginning of what? is my question... I don't care if my movements are part of a big system that calculates "oh, this saturday are 20% more shoppers in the city than the same time last year" - but I very well care about an individual profile that opens the door to various ways of potential abuse.

Just a thought/example: You and I both know what you can see and what not. The interesting stuff for a government is typically what they cannot see from their office. Simple example: The US authorities could always locate a phone within the US, but that's boring. It is far more interesting to know where some people have been exactly when they visited countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen... and unless the local authorities give you access, you cannot track what's going on in foreign networks. Since 2008, more and more business visitors complained that when entering the US, their laptops were taken away from them and controlled. Back then did most experts say "I have no idea why the department of homeland security believes that of all people do terrorists save critical data on their hard-drives before they enter the US"... perhaps they did but were not aware of it?
http://www.pcwelt.de/news/Datenschut...er-263239.html
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  #24  
Old 21.04.2011, 14:50
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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but I very well care about an individual profile that opens the door to various ways of potential abuse.

I'm still struggling to see how this data could be abused
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  #25  
Old 21.04.2011, 14:54
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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I'm still struggling to see how this data could be abused
Jealous spouse, Employer. Anyone who needs to question where you were at a particular time.
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  #26  
Old 21.04.2011, 14:57
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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Jealous spouse, Employer. Anyone who needs to question where you were at a particular time.

they would need to physically have your handset to do that, and know what app to install and how to use the data.

the authorities can get that info from the phone operators anyway.
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  #27  
Old 21.04.2011, 14:59
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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they would need to physically have your handset to do that, and know what app to install and how to use the data.

the authorities can get that info from the phone operators anyway.
There is no chance authorities can get infos from operators unless there is a specific order from a judge (at least in CH).
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  #28  
Old 21.04.2011, 15:00
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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they would need to physically have your handset to do that, and know what app to install and how to use the data.
No. The data is synced to your PC. A day in the office and whoever can get his hand on your PC at home can read it out. It is probably just a matter of days till someone publishes a tool that not only allows the data to be shown in a map but also changed... employer: I know tons of people who have itunes on their work PCs. If you sync your phone, the employer has the data.
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  #29  
Old 21.04.2011, 15:03
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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There is no chance authorities can get infos from operators unless there is a specific order from a judge (at least in CH).
Well, we live in the better part of the world when it comes to that point... put it this way: If I was a terrorist, I would not rely on nobody reading my SMS. (Or the SMS getting delivered in half of the world if it includes the wrong key words...)
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  #30  
Old 21.04.2011, 15:09
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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No. The data is synced to your PC. A day in the office and whoever can get his hand on your PC at home can read it out. It is probably just a matter of days till someone publishes a tool that not only allows the data to be shown in a map but also changed... employer: I know tons of people who have itunes on their work PCs. If you sync your phone, the employer has the data.

if they wanted to sack you they'd only have to check you web access and see you spend all day on EF lol
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  #31  
Old 21.04.2011, 15:14
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

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if they wanted to sack you they'd only have to check you web access and see you spend all day on EF lol
I think the essence of the complaint is how easy it would be though if someone wanted this info. As said, if you want it from a telco, you get a court order to have it released which is no small matter.

if you were wondering where your husband was last night without asking him, you just wait until he sync's his phone next and then the file is freely available to you to use and its a doddle to get into.

Another example is lose your phone and the person who picks it up doesnt just have your address book now, he has your movement history which has no end of uses.

Technically you can argue this data has not been put in a public place but it misses the point - if you wanted this info on your phone you would have said so.
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  #32  
Old 21.04.2011, 19:15
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

German authorities are requesting answers from apple regarding privacy issue. So does also US senator Al Franken.
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  #33  
Old 27.04.2011, 15:26
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Re: iPhones and iPads secretly track your location and store your profile...

Official Apple response:

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Why is my iPhone logging my location?

The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it's maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location...
well, that's alright then!
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