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  #181  
Old 28.06.2011, 12:32
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Re: Fast fatty foods

All I know is that my refined-sugar fast is only on its second day and I would kill for a piece of chocolate...

A cold beer wouldn't be bad, either.

But if this is what it takes to turn a whale to an eel...
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  #182  
Old 28.06.2011, 12:36
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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All I know is that my refined-sugar fast is only on its second day and I would kill for a piece of chocolate...

A cold beer wouldn't be bad, either.

But if this is what it takes to turn a whale to an eel...
Eels have got a bad rep as either being a bit slippery or downright shocking.

Why not make a smaller leap from whale to porpoise? Porpoises sound like much more fun.
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  #183  
Old 28.06.2011, 12:37
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I'd agree with most of what was written. But if it were true then some of the reasons why Switzerland doesn't have the obesity levels of other Western countries are clear:

A scarcity of junk food take-aways selling the kind of obesity causing junk that can be consumed in large quantities.
A lack of interest in stupid slimming diets.
Family meals.
Smaller portions at restaurants.
Cooking proper meals at home.


etc etc etc

I truly cannot understand all the people on this forum who cry out for a North American food culture here with their KFCs and In and Outs etc etc/

I don't want that. Can't people see the problems it causes?
An important point of the article, also was that if you compare for example, obesity to smoking, the cause-effect link is less simple with obesity.

You do gain weight when energy in exceeds energy out, and while I agree with much of what you say above, it's not a simple caloric equation for everyone. Lots of individual variation and it is complicated. I think gene expression, as Carlos mentioned is key in a lot of chronic disease, metabolic issues. And they are just starting to understand the genes that work on top of genes to regulate and control expression.

Of course the same might be said for smoking. Not everyone who smokes develops the same diseases, but the cause and effect is a bit more simple in more cases.

I have to admit to an occasional McD too... Next week, when we drive to NL to see the family, and I will have to engage in the excellent Dutch junk food - kroket and friet. Mmmmmm.
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  #184  
Old 28.06.2011, 12:43
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Eels have got a bad rep as either being a bit slippery or downright shocking.
I've been a bit slippery and downright shocking since November 2007, and my rep doesn't seem to have suffered...
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  #185  
Old 28.06.2011, 12:50
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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And age - it's the same for everyone. As you've said yourself - now you're older you're putting on weight.

They've done studies (that would agree with my own observations) that overweight people eat more than they say they do and thin people actually eat less.
(I'm talking about total food intake which includes snacks (which some people choose to ignore when they discuss how much they eat).

Genetics and body type may play a minor role but it doesn't explain the western world obesity explosion but the factors that I mentioned would. *

*However, if you think that Darwin was a fraud and you believe that God created the world in six days then perhaps you also believe that we as a race, have evolved dramatically in the last twenty years which is why are body types and genetic make-up have changed so much.

Personally, I don't subscribe to this view but with your reasoning, I appreciate that you may.

I definitely don't accept the the notion, that if I believe that genetics play a role in one's metabolism I think that Darwin is a fraud and am a stanch fundamental Christian. Such comments just diminish credibility.

Whether you call it 20 year Darwinism or whatever, there are genetic trends based on location. Rate of aging is genetic, and metabolism changes with aging. So I think there's quite the role played there.
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  #186  
Old 28.06.2011, 13:29
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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I definitely don't accept the the notion, that if I believe that genetics play a role in one's metabolism I think that Darwin is a fraud and am a stanch fundamental Christian. Such comments just diminish credibility.
.
So we both agree that it's not genetic changes that have caused the obesity and we as people, are basically the same as we were twenty years ago, give or take a few pounds.


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Whether you call it 20 year Darwinism or whatever, there are genetic trends based on location. Rate of aging is genetic, and metabolism changes with aging. So I think there's quite the role played there.
We both agree n this
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  #187  
Old 28.06.2011, 14:42
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Re: Fast fatty foods

Interesting article I read yesterday about genes and fat...
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  #188  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:02
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Interesting article I read yesterday about genes and fat...
So how can you tell that you've got fat stored internally despite having a slim outwards appearance?

(I guess the doctor can tell at the autopsy but it would be good to know in advance )
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  #189  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:11
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Sounds to me like you should maybe go out with some blinders on or something... Why does it matter to you how they looked or what they ate?

Good on you for only having coffee. Me, I have to be careful about having coffee as I get headaches if I've had it for a day or two but not on the third.


Oh, and, that beached whale bit? Ugly, ugly, ugly. No call for that any more than for using nasty names to call people of different races, different religions, different sexual orientation or anything else that may make them different from you.
Atta girl Peg. Life is all about choices. I agree, we need to start the kids off right. Then, when they are old enough, they can make THEIR choices just like they do for everything else. What to eat, what wear, etc.

Hey Leni maybe they are saying about you, " she purges".

Leni? It is their choice to live the way they do and it is your choice to live yours. If it disgusts you, you have the choices. You can sit and watch them or go to a different cafe'. Peace
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  #190  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:15
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Leni? It is their choice to live the way they do and it is your choice to live yours. If it disgusts you, you have the choices. You can sit and watch them or go to a different cafe'. Peace
Wrong - when I'm going to start subsidising their healthcare by higher insurance premiums then it is my business.
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  #191  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:38
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So how can you tell that you've got fat stored internally despite having a slim outwards appearance?

(I guess the doctor can tell at the autopsy but it would be good to know in advance )
Or surgery. When I had my gall bladder removed, the surgeon told me I had practically no fat stored around my organs.
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  #192  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:44
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Wrong - when I'm going to start subsidising their healthcare by higher insurance premiums then it is my business.
How will you draw the line in a manner that is both accurate and fair? Not clear that basing it on BMI does it. What if people try to loose weight and can't? How about thin people with fatty organs and poor lipid markers. you're simply going to pay more as the population ages. For many diseases the first risk is age.

The idea is to create a large enough risk pool so that risk can be shared across the population, or if you segment, make sure the segments are accurate and fair.
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  #193  
Old 28.06.2011, 15:52
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Re: Fast fatty foods

I tried to hold back on this, but this thread needs this basic piece of Carlin enlightenment before any more comments are cast. NSFW

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  #194  
Old 28.06.2011, 16:32
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Wrong - when I'm going to start subsidising their healthcare by higher insurance premiums then it is my business.
That argument is a pile of manure! I used to live with a man who was thin (about 5'6" and about 145lbs) and had monstrously bad cholesterol, even at age 22. Of course, he drank like a fish BUT he was thin.

I also worked with an optometrist who also was of a slimmer build, athletic even, would go running on lunch break every day... and he too had to go on a special diet because of high cholesterol.

Meanwhile I AM FAT and have NEVER had high cholesterol issues, at all! The doctors LOVE to run all sorts of tests to try to find something to say is wrong aside from "you're fat, you better watch it" and they always come back within the realm of normalcy. Of course, I should watch it anyhow, even though I don't have any of those problems now, even my more "health conscious" relatives did run into problems in their 60's.

So, while many studies show that obesity does have links to certain health issues like high blood pressure and high cholesterol (among other things), it isn't the only answer to how those health issues are acquired.

The idea of "YOU" subsidizing "MY" healthcare is a steaming pile indeed!
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  #195  
Old 28.06.2011, 16:33
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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How will you draw the line in a manner that is both accurate and fair? Not clear that basing it on BMI does it. What if people try to loose weight and can't? How about thin people with fatty organs and poor lipid markers. you're simply going to pay more as the population ages. For many diseases the first risk is age.

The idea is to create a large enough risk pool so that risk can be shared across the population, or if you segment, make sure the segments are accurate and fair.
Agreed - there's no easy way it could be done. As suggested in the article you posted earlier. It's not clear-cut like smoking. I.e. You either smoke or you don't.

What I do know though is if Switzerland gets the obesity rates that exist in the U.K. and the U.S., it's not going to be caused by medical conditions or genetic changes or magic but by over-eating of the wrong sorts of food coupled with a sedentary life-style. And I do know that we'll all be paying more for our medical insurance.
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  #196  
Old 28.06.2011, 16:50
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Wrong - when I'm going to start subsidising their healthcare by higher insurance premiums then it is my business.
Then you have 2 choices stay or leave.

Everything is about choices. You have 2 paths to take. One is the wrong one. If you take that path, and it's wrong, you can just cut across to the other path, you have to bite the bullet, backtrack and go to the other path.
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  #197  
Old 28.06.2011, 17:37
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Wrong - when I'm going to start subsidising their healthcare by higher insurance premiums then it is my business.
Then, you should start with smokers.... Much more issues there than obesity.

People don't die because of someone's else obesity but die for someone's else smoke.
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  #198  
Old 28.06.2011, 17:41
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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It is not the food that cause the problem, it is the person who can't control himself with it.

A KFC once in a while won't hurt you, if you eat it every week, every day, you'll see bad results on your body.

To have it available is to give someone's option to go and eat it. Those restaurants are not responsable of obesity, people are responsable of obesity.
Wow, Nil, we agree then.
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  #199  
Old 28.06.2011, 17:56
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Re: Fast fatty foods

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Wow, Nil, we agree then.
No one is saying obesity is just hormonal or genetics. Not all obese people eat badly by the way. but those who do, yes it is their fault.

I don't agree with you on how you judge people, call them names and insult them on an internet forum and God knows what in ''real'' life.

So no, Honey, we don't connect here.
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Old 28.06.2011, 17:57
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Re: Fast fatty foods

and I agree too!
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