I think we're suffering from a clash of terminologies here.

When you read the word 'pizza', you're probably thinking of something like this:



When Tom1234 types the word 'pizza', on the other hand, he is probably thinking of something like this:



I hope this goes some way toward clearing up the confusion.

Actually, some stuff takes days, like the octopus I bought and cooked yesterday, and my girlfriend made into salad today, while I cooked (briefly, still raw inside) the tuna we didn't eat raw yesterday after marinating it in a home-made Jamaican dry rub made with home-grown habaneros and such!

Tom

For an American, you never cease to amaze me !
As Italian as I am, I still can not stomach the idea of eating octopus, tripes, raw fish, moldy cheese etc.

How do you do it ?

Hey, I still am not keen on "testina di vitello", though I buy it for my girlfriend when I want to get her something "special"!

Tom

P.S. I was going to feed the grilled tuna skin to the cat, but girlfriend got to it first!

It's not a real pizza in your sense of the word- didn't I say that? My wife also makes pizzas that take hours to make.

But it's a useful point to make to those people who say they can't cook for themselves and so eat junk, because they don't have time.

We had a Mexican style meal (I'm not going to say authentic in case you bite my head off), last night. It took about twenty minutes to prepare.
I had made the chili-con carne on Sunday and froze it (and soaked the beans on Saturday). Last night we cooked the rice and just made a few different salsas and guacomole and stuff like that.

So, three days in the making, rather than twenty minutes?

But the preparation last night was only twenty minutes.

If it had been a weekend and not a work day, we would have done it all in one day (apart from the beans).

We had salad last night as well but I didn't grow if from seed in one day - it came from the MIL's allotment.

I think the key points here are that you can eat healthy fast food if you do it yourself.
When you buy a take-away, you don't really know what you are getting in terms of quality and there's probably a lot more fat and sugar than if you had done it yourself.

Which brings us nicely back on topic.

We've covered this before, haven't we... I would suggest that for the larger fast food chains you know exactly what you are getting... food standards and all that. The packs even come with the little labels to tell you.

Actually, no, not in here. There has never had to be food content cited on products here (no exact list of ingredients). Nor meds, that has very recently changed. Slow process but it is happening. The fact the big chains are doing this, is because they have to do it in the EU, anyways.

Tom1234, nobody is being personal, really. I think you have a great family with some neat customs, sure. Nobody is really picking at that. I think it is the fact you are writing as if nobody else did things you and your fambli does. In fact, we do all the things you listed. Cooking from scratch, having things ready in 20mins, well not the water/raw food intensity at all times, no, I do, the rest of the troop sometimes. And have been cautious healthy food minded people. Most people I know and surround myself with are this way. It's a normal thing, a deal we don't really talk about that much. In fact I have very consciously distanced myself from people who would say microbiotic/organic/balanced/whatever instead of telling me how much fun and substance they managed to load up on.

But.

Some of my friends are fat, sure. I do not really think it is because they would self destructively decided to have a pathetic lifestyle (and as you quite often remind us, American one) nor knew how to have a textbook, ideal diet, full of exercise, fresh spring water, raw carrots and what was it...90sec pizza. One of my most influential friends, in fact, lives super healthy, grows his own stuff, is far the most creative and one of the most talented person I know, got me hooked on the ever so fabulous (and American)



and he is large. It's a family thing, really. Some Yanks are big people, and I don't mean fat, really, but tall and all (sorry if this sounds crass). You can picture them obsessing over burgers and other cliches, since it fits the stereotype, but some are just big. I get tired of asceticism here.

I still do not think that the fact I live healthily gives me the right to nag about how other people see their priorities. I think kids need to be fed right, fun and with not much obsession, either. We eat to function, not the other way around. But with a bit more fun and less...primary school calvinism.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Ummm. What you on about?

Major fast food joints have to tell you the nutritional content of the food and it is usually shown on the package.



Not sure how that's related to what you wrote when quoting my post...

They didn't have to do it here, for the longest time. I think there still isn't legislature actually, to have to list all ingredients in CH. If there is, it has been a recent thing, compared to other countries. (I know they do it, but that's because it was a company policy). You still see food products with not listed content here. I know they do it now, my point was, it's actually quite recent that it has become an obligation, it was done before, as a good company policy, not because they were forced by legislature. I actually think nutritional value of some fast food is not as terrible as some people want us to think, the options are not bad at all these days, salads, fruits, fruit juices, etc.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Ah. message too short

Neat customs? We eat normally. Most people on here seem to as well. I'm often in awe of what people cook on here and of what amazing knowledge they have of food.

My comments were directed at the thread to those people who eat junk.

I'm not anti-American at all. However, when looking at possible causes of the current obesity epidemic, it only makes sense to look towards the U.S.A. when searching for possible causes. What is so wrong with that?

Families do eat together. If they eat the same things, in the same quantities, they'll have the same sorts of weights.
This is common knowledge.

I'm not nagging. This is a discussion on fatty food etc. If you don't like every argument then go to another thread.

And your comment about eating to function is exactly one of the things that's wrong with mainstream food culture in the U.S.

Some of us actually live to eat and don't see it the way you do.


And, you are the one who said that fruit and vegetables are so boring.

That, IMO, is one of the problems. You appear to see healthy eating as a chore.

It's not. I replied to that particular post and I gave examples of where eating vegetables can be fun for both adults and children and I get sneered at by you.

Saw this this morning - seems appropriate to the thread (or the little I've read of it). Chocolate covered bacon for breakfast anyone?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gall...354148&index=1

OK it's in the US; the UK just has things like deep fried mars bars!

You mean those who you catch? See in a cafe? See them in films? They are not even Yank here. So why dissect American food culture all the time? You argue with your family being healthy, I can argue with my Yank family and friends, where far from your truth, no so many people are actually obese. In fact the people who are interested in healthy food there, have been the most inspiring to me, most fun, most inventive, and the least proud of it, since they really are super busy with other exciting projects, etc. Let's mention that as well, when we are at the finger pointing. You talk so generally about something that to me does not appear general at all. The issue of obesity might not be as black and white, as bunch of people try to say here. It does not always boil down to entitlement, selfishness, poor knowledge, lack of interest, etc.

I don't think they are. It's more the people who present them as marvels all the time and think fat people cannot see it and that's why they are fat. Too simplistic. So, if boring means lacking depth, then I guess so. Depth is not always abused as an excuse, you see...But maybe it equips us searching for ways that are more efficient. Black and white reasoning, shaming one culture into certain attitudes, mockery, is not a long term sustainable method.

I love raw food but won't push my theory on anyone. In fact long years of being vegan I never shared it with people since there are so many cliches and folks who don't get it, who stereotype. I never did and I won't expect all people to joyfully load up on peeled carrots, raw peppers and unbaked, sundried bread, as I love to do. What I do with my child, how happily she cooks with me and eats crazy healthy stuff is one thing, another is my gripe with "healthy" (but while we are at the critical mindset), inedible Coop kid range, for example, yuck, that's another thing. As if kids the age of 2-4 had the mindset of being aware of eating healthily and won't mind the poor taste.

We have this running joke in our family about raisins being "nature's candy" as some hippie people we know ban candy and push raisins on kids instead, it cracks me up anytime I munch on raisins. I bet their kids have moonpies stashed away somewhere. Pockets full of twinkies.

You see where I am going? I don't need to point fingers at any particular culture, love to eat healthily, but am not naieve in a way that I think people just need to stick to raw fruits, etc etc. or retraining them into other mindset using negativity towards certain culture.

So, debate yes, but let's leave US out of it. I wonder how that's gonna go...

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

I'm sorry, I'm confused about your statement. You keep telling me to leave the U.S. out of it. Is this an order as a Mod? Or is it a polite request?


I haven't been criticising the U.S. in this thread but merely stating that if we want to fully understand the Western world obesity epidemic, then we should look to the U.S. to see where they have gone wrong as the problem is greatest there and the problem started there.

What part of the above statement could you possibly contradict?

If we wanted to study the causes of plane crashes, we may look at planes and not ships or cars.

Aaah, that's makes me laugh.

Ok, where were we.

Mods are members, some of then also enjoy a good debate, etc etc. and manage to my knowledge very professionally those two hats separate, in a pretty fine way.

So, yes. Leave belligerence out of it. No use to make stereotyping comments about cultures, when in fact we are talking about a world phenomenon, sadly. If you approach it as it is, a world phenomenon, since it really is all over the place, innit, then you have a higher chance to actually do something about it. Sedentery is not a US invention. Convenience is not a US invention. Sure there are sad stats, but shrugging all sophistication off, just to point fingers is not going to help those who are in search for treatment and better life. It will hurt them in the process, just like some of the comments in this tread..

If you want to advise on good diet, demonstrate it with family anectotes, etc. it is all fine. I appreciate people chipping in with ideas how to make things better, without being particularly negative.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

The US is positively slender according to this list...

However I think people turn their attention to the US because of the sheer volume of obesity statistics over there.

I'm not at all convinced by that in some cases.

Yes, your word is final and you can delete posts which don't tie in with your side of the debate - so removing greenies which were given because someone actually agreed or found my post funny.

Not everyone agrees with you and I got quite a few points for my posts.
And these 'nasty, negative, insulting, judging' accusations flying around have gotten out of hand, too.

And I don't think calling vegans/hippies 'smelly' very nice either.
Sadly, I can't remove that post.

That wasn't criticising the U.S. It was criticising those people, at that particular restaurant, cramming six hamburgers into their mouths, one after the other washed down with the bucket of coke.

Sorry if I mentioned it was in Hawaii but that's where it was.

If someone, on another thread, said they saw locals eating dog, it would have make sense to say it was in South Korea rather than saying nothing or saying it was in their local Migros cafeteria.

It was a personal observation and I had never seen anything like it before and yes, those particular people were acting like pigs. It was, to my eyes, quite disgusting.

Those were my thoughts at the time.