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  #21  
Old 17.05.2011, 12:22
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

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Thanks for the kind offer, but my hands are full at the moment - i'll let you know if there is an opening.
For some reason, I am subscribing to the the same line of thought as Ouchboy did earlier

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thoughts to live by..
Indeed, I think I am the best and strongest F1 driver and Tennis player and I dont need to go to the track or the court to prove it.

(You're not getting off.. the hook I mean.. that easily.. lady)
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  #22  
Old 17.05.2011, 12:56
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

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Weak men have to prove themselves to be 'stronger' whereas a stronge man doesn't need to prove anything.

precisely why I'm

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.....happy to sit around playing PS3 and watching TV all day if it helped my wife's career .
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  #23  
Old 17.05.2011, 13:17
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

I do not really think it is a gender issue, though, although society pushes for it. I think it is an issue when one cares too much how society labels him/her, worries to much what society establishes as a success. And that goes both for chicks (there are bunch who would never stay at home, do not want to lose their pride, freedom and independence or cannot afford to rely on their partner, either) and guys (I'd say equal amount of guys as chicks worry about what will society - buddies, family, their own ego - say if they "give up" their life for a family).

People still judge you based on earning power no matter how modern people think. You pay for a meal in the resto and the bewildered looks of waiters who can't believe it is the chick who pays. You come to a service counter wherever here, and it is you hubby who gets the eye contact first and welcome, since it is expected, now when you have kids, you stay at home and he makes the decisions.

I think it boils down to what partner you are with, will he/she keep respecting you for the sacrifice, limits and future repercussions that come with stay at home parent, or will he/she penalize you later for this decision even more through jabs, limited access to cash, decisions made without you, etc.

I feel, quite often when it is a nice, couple decision at start to pick one that stays at home, it ends up that person being disrespected, unprovided for, and also career damaged later on. To withdraw from work market certainly isn't a breeze to deal with later on. For women who had babies and for anyone who stays at home with them later on, be it a guy or a woman.

So, I think it is a little more complicated. I respect men who go through this, as much as I respect women going through this. I also respect people who are clocking out huge amount of work to enable this happen, or those who have to decide for one staying home since it is actually cheaper here. Mutual respect is needed, though. I do think, personally, that a guy staying home has it easier considering society aspect, since one would never expect it here, really, while it is expected from women, and that can be rough. I also think it might be possible ego trouble for men, to lose that kind of status society expect from them. But they make awesome conversationalist on the playground, I swear. I can't really hang out with the usual diaper/nanny troubles/expensive groceries chitchat that often come with playdates.
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  #24  
Old 17.05.2011, 13:45
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

I think every good woman should have a man behind her...
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  #25  
Old 17.05.2011, 23:29
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

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Or maybe I just hang out with the wrong people?
Maybe you just hang out with the wrong people.

Reminds me of a Playboy cartoon of two old men on a golf course:

1st guy: "When I was a young guy, all I wanted was a tall blonde with big tatas. Then I realised she was kinda boring, so I found a tall blonde with small tatas but a degree in business. I liked that she was independently wealthy, but she was real bossy and was always checking up on me and nagging me over my ways."

2nd guy: "So what happened?"

1st guy: "Well, she proved too much, so all I'm looking for now is a tall blonde girl with big tatas".

---

Not sure if women see the world any differently.
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  #26  
Old 18.05.2011, 00:24
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

It works out great for some, such as my brother-in-law.

It's freed him to build their dream house, and all that goes with it, and he is one of the best cooks I know. They were fortunate that this option was the best for both of them.

I've never been in a situation where a second income was necessary, however the possibility was always available and encouraged, as that is how I was raised.

Alas, I always attract artistic types who want to be artistic, and thus don't take 9-5 jobs.

Good for them!

Tom
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  #27  
Old 18.05.2011, 10:57
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

MusicChick, I still think it is a gender issue, at least for the time being. I's not only ok for women to stay at home, in Switzerland it's actually expected and "why do you have children anyway if you don't want to take care of them and send them off to some strangers to raise?!?"

Whereas a stay-at-home dad is constantly asked what's wrong with him and isn't he planning to get a job, how long can he leech off his poor wife? We happened to mention at some social gathering that if we have kids, my husband will be the one staying home - and people laughed like it was the funniest most absurd thing they've ever heard.

You have to be a strong person not to let this get to you.
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  #28  
Old 25.01.2012, 09:14
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

Seems like there are still wannabe macho guys out there trying to dictate how their partners should live their lives. And when equality is explained they resort to childish behavior, throwing toys out of the pram because they can't comprehend having to accept their domestic responsibilities beyond providing a household income.

Men need several female characters to keep them functioning in their gender rôle: Lover, cook, mother, au pair, friend and someone to show off to the guys. Tough call for one woman to perform all those duties simultaneously. The military call it swing-rôle, the ability to change profiles in the course of a mission. Females are built better for that, (exclude map reading and parking vehicles of course).
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  #29  
Old 25.01.2012, 09:38
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

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Your thoughts on the men behind the women - if you have even ever considered them..
A relationship is teamwork. Sometimes the man is in the background, sometimes the woman is in the background and sometimes they walk side by side. If it's balanced, then I'd say the relationship is functioning, mature and beyond power struggles and insecurity issues.
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  #30  
Old 25.01.2012, 10:09
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

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Your thoughts on the men behind the women - if you have even ever considered them..
Not getting into the gender issues and what society thinks, I think it has got more to do with the understanding of each other. When a woman is working, even if she is not career minded, it takes a lot from the man to keep her working without too much of pressures. And vice-versa. A woman gives up her career because of the potential career a man can have and how for the family it can open up better opportunities. Having said that i know many men in the ordinary world and not the likes of Mr. Thatcher, who have let their careers and jobs take a backseat because they felt the wife had a better job/career (my husband not in that list though )
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  #31  
Old 25.01.2012, 10:22
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

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Seems like there are still wannabe macho guys out there trying to dictate how their partners should live their lives. And when equality is explained they resort to childish behavior, throwing toys out of the pram because they can't comprehend having to accept their domestic responsibilities beyond providing a household income.

Men need several female characters to keep them functioning in their gender rôle: Lover, cook, mother, au pair, friend and someone to show off to the guys. Tough call for one woman to perform all those duties simultaneously. The military call it swing-rôle, the ability to change profiles in the course of a mission. Females are built better for that, (exclude map reading and parking vehicles of course).
I would argue that the gender roles are so mixed at this time it is not easy for anyone. Sure there are still problems with equality for females in some workplaces but at least a female can demand her rights. Men on the other hand (I am talking married with children) are absolutely stuggling to try and meet everyones needs moreso when his partner works or has a career as well. I am not suggesting women stay at home and not work but working women are a lot more demanding. A man's role in today's society is so undefined, he has to be so many things to so many people there is little time left for himself and his needs. Having been a house husband for a few years there is a duality of levels of respect, on one hand people admire the concept and at the same time (often unconsciously) the same people think well you not really a man letting your woman do all the work. This leads to problems in your relationship, you have to be a damn strong man to not lose your masculine role and identity. Whilst your wife struggles to give up her dominant role when she finishes work, "I just want to be treated like a woman" well darling that is difficult when you so demanding and still trying to be the boss. Lots of questions and no easy answers.
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  #32  
Old 25.01.2012, 10:34
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

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A relationship is teamwork. Sometimes the man is in the background, sometimes the woman is in the background and sometimes they walk side by side. If it's balanced, then I'd say the relationship is functioning, mature and beyond power struggles and insecurity issues.
Great in theory but to get to that level of relationship there WILL BE a lot of power struggles and insecurity issues, throw in a couple of kids so you are time poor and sleep deprived and you realise it is not so easy. Women struggle to take a background role (once they have had a leadership role) just as much as men did and do.
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  #33  
Old 25.01.2012, 19:13
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Re: What do you think of the men behind the women?

It's unavoidable for women to leave their traditional role nowadays but I can't understand that there are guys who like to pick up on it. So many couples divorce at some stage and that often leaves the supporting partner (gender doesn't matter) in a economically bad situation because they haven't been in the workforce for 5, 10 or 20 years.

Many husbands of "famous" successful women that come to my mind had or have a career of their own. Be is the the businessman Mr. Thatcher or the physicist Joachim Sauer (Merkel's husband).
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