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View Poll Results: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to here it ?
Yes 23 79.31%
No 6 20.69%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 03.06.2011, 18:00
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to here it ?

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Yo Dawg. I heard you like saying So you're saying.

So I put a you're saying in you're saying so you can keep on saying you're saying while you're saying.
And yet I didn't even say anything. I just typed it.
And you didn't actually hear it. You just read it.

Unless you have synesthesia. That would be kind of cool.

  #62  
Old 03.06.2011, 20:28
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to here it ?

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Ever get tired of being obviously and provably wrong?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sound




Defintion 1 is your (sole) definition. That is, the experiential sensation.
Definition 2 is the other definition, that is, the mechanical effect in the medium.

However there is another definition of sound, which encompasses both (emphasis added) and which I particularly like:

Vibrations that travel through the air or another medium and can be heard when they reach a person's or animal's ear

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...w=1366&bih=643




Aah, now where was I...

Oh yes,

Context Dear boy, context...

"the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium."

"...if no one is around to hear it"
  #63  
Old 03.06.2011, 20:29
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to here it ?

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And yet I can promise you that the deaf person will still sense those sound waves traveling through the ground and air and will still know that something fell.
Nobody is denying/arguing that the tree fell or not.
  #64  
Old 04.06.2011, 12:52
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

I did, two pages ago.
  #65  
Old 04.06.2011, 13:10
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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I did, two pages ago.
Of course. Sorry. You will just have to take me on trust that it did. I wouldn't lie to you.
  #66  
Old 04.06.2011, 13:15
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

Where is HashBrown when you need him, eh?
  #67  
Old 04.06.2011, 13:27
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

Suppose we record the sound of the tree falling, with no one present.

Did it make a sound?

Or are you claiming that it depends on whether or not we listen to the recording?

If we listen to the recording more than once, did it make more than one sound?

Tom
  #68  
Old 04.06.2011, 13:37
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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Of course. Sorry. You will just have to take me on trust that it did. I wouldn't lie to you.
Trust someone who doesn't exist? Are you mad?
  #69  
Old 04.06.2011, 14:06
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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Trust someone who doesn't exist? Are you mad?
Careful, you will have religious types banging on the door...
  #70  
Old 04.06.2011, 14:10
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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Suppose we record the sound of the tree falling, with no one present.

Did it make a sound?

Or are you claiming that it depends on whether or not we listen to the recording?

If we listen to the recording more than once, did it make more than one sound?

Tom
You record sound waves and store them. You do not record the sound. The recording replays the sound waves via a speaker and you the interpret the waves as a sound. Sounds can only exist within a conscious mind, not in a recording. Recordings are useless without the/an observer.

The nature of reality is that it only exists in your mind. Without a conscious mind, there is no reality, just waves.
  #71  
Old 04.06.2011, 14:21
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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The nature of reality is that it only exists in your mind.
I think that we do perceive reality according to how we are *biologically capable* of perceiving it. But I also think that Man is NOT the measure of all things... and that there is a reality that exists independently of consciousness. For example, the hydrogen atom existed long before humans did. And while I am certainly not limiting my definition of "consciousness" to that which can only pertain to humans, at the same, I don't believe that there existed consciousness prior to the evolution of life. Of course, though, this may be a slippery slope... and depend on one's definition of consciousness. Even light has been shown to behave intelligently and act as though it may be conscious (e.g. quantum electrodynamics).
So I guess the argument in this thread depends on 1) The definition of "sound" but also 2) Your definition of consciousness.
Sorry to rant...
  #72  
Old 04.06.2011, 14:27
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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Without a conscious mind, there is no reality, just waves.
Perception may be a matter of collapsing wave functions, but aren't those wave functions alone a "reality?"
  #73  
Old 04.06.2011, 14:39
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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Perception may be a matter of collapsing wave functions, but aren't those wave functions alone a "reality?"
Not a physical reality, no, I would argue not. It is important here to differentiate between a wave and a physical form. As for hydrogen being present before man, well, an interesting point to raise. Some would argue that our physical reality is the result of the external observer outside of our reality, that collapsed the wave function. Some people might even argue that the external observer is known by names such as God etc and that the big bang is a creationist event, or a collapse...
  #74  
Old 04.06.2011, 14:48
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

Of course it makes a sound. But not after 10pm.
  #75  
Old 04.06.2011, 16:25
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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Not a physical reality, no, I would argue not. It is important here to differentiate between a wave and a physical form.
But what is "physical reality?" Matter itself is just condensed energy... I'm not necessarily trying to argue your point, but I'm curious what you define as "physical reality."

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As for hydrogen being present before man, well, an interesting point to raise. Some would argue that our physical reality is the result of the external observer outside of our reality, that collapsed the wave function. Some people might even argue that the external observer is known by names such as God etc and that the big bang is a creationist event, or a collapse...
I've read Dr. Bernard Haisch's book, "The God Theory," in which he presents a theory much like the one you describe. It's an interesting read, but I found that he didn't have much, if any, evidence (even theoretical) to really back himself up.
  #76  
Old 04.06.2011, 16:26
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

maybe someone can set up a sound recorder in a forest and empirically test this
  #77  
Old 04.06.2011, 16:27
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

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Of course it makes a sound. But not after 10pm.
And *certainly* not on a Sunday!
  #78  
Old 04.06.2011, 16:29
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to here it ?

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Nobody is denying/arguing that the tree fell or not.
I am. If no one's around, then no one's around to witness the tree falling at all. Any sound it might or might not make seems to be largely besides the point really if we don't know the tree fell in the first place. Even after the fact evidence isn't proof - it could have been toppled gently and carefully placed on the ground.
  #79  
Old 04.06.2011, 16:32
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

The universe is wonderfuly silent, or it would be if it weren't for ears.
It's why we actually have ears, to conveniently warn us of falling trees.
  #80  
Old 04.06.2011, 16:35
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Re: Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is around to hear it ?

If you call the guys from CSI they will investigate the whole matter even on Sunday afternoon, they will use chemicals, take few samples to the lab and project on the large comp turn of events. Soon somebody will be paid a visit and hand cuffed.
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