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Old 04.08.2011, 17:37
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Why is wine good or bad?

Most things we eat and drink are discussed in terms of preference eg - I like Newcastle Brown Ale, I don't like Boddingtons, I like Gruyere, I don't like Brie etc etc etc

Why is it that this doesn't apply to wine, uniquely, I think? People don't really say "I don't like Syrah", but they will say that this Syrah is good, and that one is bad.

Why is wine the only thing we consume which is measured and evaluated so definitively - is it true that wine can only be good or bad, or is it some form of elitism where you are meant to feel stupid saying that you don't like a "good" wine, or is there some other reason?

(Another thought is that it is something to do with being handcrafted - but cheese, for example, isn't spoken of that way usually)

By the way - my question isn't about whether there is good Cheddar and bad Cheddar - I know that there is. But it isn't usually spoken of that way
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Old 04.08.2011, 17:46
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

People DO say they don't like a particular grape variety (as in your example). But when comparing two wines using the same grape and produced at similar times then it becomes a comparison. Then it's perfectly valid to say one is good and one is bad - it's how you compare things.

Take burgers - people can say they don't like burgers but are unlikely to say burgers are bad. But people could say that the burger at one place is good whereas at another place it's bad.

I guess you're not a native english speaker or you fixated on wine and missed the subtleties of the vocab.
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Old 04.08.2011, 17:54
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

Until last week, I would have said ALL wine is good. (I'll drink anything, I grew up in a Welsh pub.) But then I bought a Swiss red which was the vilest thing to pass my lips since I accidentally bought coconut juice instead of pineapple and literally gagged and retched in the street.

The whole wine debate is part marketing, part pretension, part acquired taste. Funny enough, I've just been researching what 'Rioja' really means. Not that much, it turns out. Many people say the same thing about whisky - the differentiations are largely contrived. Having said that, nothing will part me from my Bushmills Black Bush or my 10 Year Old Laphroaig.
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Old 04.08.2011, 17:55
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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I guess you're not a native english speaker or you fixated on wine and missed the subtleties of the vocab.
Well, liking Newcastle Brown Ale might mean that English isn't my native language, but I'm hardly Cheryl Cole either

I DO think that there is a difference - if you gave somebody, for example, a tin of expensive caviar or a handrolled Cuban cigar - people would feel OK to turn up their nose and say "I don't like that". But I have NEVER heard somebody say "I don't like that expensive wine" - there does seem (in my experience) to be much less willingness to say "Well, it might be "good" and expensive, but I don't like it"

And even in your example - the language people use tends to be different - except for very extreme examples, people tend to talk about "liking" burgers from a particular place, and not about "good and bad"
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Old 04.08.2011, 17:59
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

Tosh! People say that things are good and bad, it's more often not a matter of preference but a value judgement (depending on the user of course - a judgmental arse or a postmodern, everything is a matter of opinion, twonk). Quality cheese is quality cheese, Asda value cheese analogue is rubbish. Brahms is good (though not to my taste) and Britney is rubbish (also not to my taste).

Aaaanyway...it isn't just wine by a long shot, so in my opinion, this thread is rubbish. It's also rubbish.
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:03
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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Tosh! People say that things are good and bad, it's more often not a matter of preference but a value judgement (depending on the user of course - a judgmental arse or a postmodern, everything is a matter of opinion, twonk). Quality cheese is quality cheese, Asda value cheese analogue is rubbish. Brahms is good (though not to my taste) and Britney is rubbish (also not to my taste).

Aaaanyway...it isn't just wine by a long shot, so in my opinion, this thread is rubbish. It's also rubbish.
I love it when Mods go bad

OK then - when did you EVER hear somebody say that they didn't like an expensive wine??? I'm not saying that people don't think it - but it is NEVER said
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:05
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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I love it when Mods go bad

OK then - when did you EVER hear somebody say that they didn't like an expensive wine??? I'm not saying that people don't think it - but it is NEVER said
It is said by me. Typically I like mid range wines. The really expensive ones are often incredibly bold and deep and not to my taste. I like fun and fruity varieties. Middle of the road sweetness, not to much in the way of tannins. 15 to 20 quid in the UK for a bottle and that suits me. I'm clearly not a connoisseur.
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:06
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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IOK then - when did you EVER hear somebody say that they didn't like an expensive wine???
Before you tell them how expensive it was ;)
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:09
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

I prefer some cheaper wines to more expensive wines (Bourgogne to Bordeaux, for example), and my girlfriend generally prefers the Barbera they sell in one liter bottles at Denner that costs less than CHF 3/bottle to a lot of wines costing many times more!

I also much prefer Italian Primativo to Californian Zinfandel, despite both of them being made from the same grape variety (and the Primativo generally is much cheaper).

Tom
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:11
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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I love it when Mods go bad

OK then - when did you EVER hear somebody say that they didn't like an expensive wine??? I'm not saying that people don't think it - but it is NEVER said
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It is said by me. Typically I like mid range wines. The really expensive ones are often incredibly bold and deep and not to my taste. I like fun and fruity varieties. Middle of the road sweetness, not to much in the way of tannins. 15 to 20 quid in the UK for a bottle and that suits me. I'm clearly not a connoisseur.
Another bad mod here. See, it's not just wine.

15 to 20 quid?!? I love those CHF 5 Primitivos from Denner. Oh, but 15 to 20 quid IS around CHF 5, isn't it ...

ETA: Darn that st2lemans ... you'd have thought t'internet in Ticino wouldn't be so fast ...
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:11
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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Before you tell them how expensive it was
EXACTLY!!!!

See, my un-moderate Moderator friend.....its not totally rubbish
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:13
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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EXACTLY!!!!

See, my un-moderate Moderator friend.....its not totally rubbish
You are right. It's just rubbish to me. I apologise.
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:14
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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EXACTLY!!!!

See, my un-moderate Moderator friend.....its not totally rubbish
"Un-moderate" is bad.
"Immoderate" is good.

There's another example.
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:17
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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You are right. It's just rubbish to me. I apologise.

You have my permission to trash it then - maybe its only me who knows what the heck i'm talking about
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:22
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

Job done, already.
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Old 04.08.2011, 18:41
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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You have my permission to trash it then - maybe its only me who knows what the heck i'm talking about
We, the moderator team, try not to delete threads. It's important for other users to see what not to do.
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Old 04.08.2011, 19:06
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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Why is wine the only thing we consume which is measured and evaluated so definitively - is it true that wine can only be good or bad, or is it some form of elitism where you are meant to feel stupid saying that you don't like a "good" wine, or is there some other reason
Are you referring to Bernard and Manny? I like them, but I wouldn't trust their judgement on wine






couldn't resist..
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Old 04.08.2011, 19:06
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Re: Why is wine good or bad?

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We, the moderator team, try not to delete threads. It's important for other users to see what not to do.
Mod induced voyeurism..
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