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Old 19.08.2011, 07:34
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HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

Well, there we go again. After less than 6 weeks of the initial launch of the (then) over-prized Touchpad, HP throws in the towel. Not that it put much of an effort into WebOS - from when Apotheker took over, it was clear that they would kill off all of the consumer PC business eventually. But I was hoping they'd at least stay in the fight for mobile solutions. Anyway, here are my top reasons why I (now) think that HP is a PoS company:


4. They willingly destroyed Palm. It was very suspicious when they started selling WebOS devices only in 5 of the 150+ markets HP is active in. At that time, the decision was already made. By massively overpricing the Touchpad and thus thwarting decent sales, Apotheker got the leverage he needed to convince the rest of the bord members to effectively kill the company as they and we knew it.

3. They're willing to bet their whole existence on a prospective and extremely risky (expensive) purchase of a systems software company. A deal that may never go through.

2. They start selling their Pre 3 to European customers a DAY before they announce to kill it off. It was very suspicious that they didn't launch it in the US first. Now it makes perfect sense, of course: no class-action suits possible in good old Europe. They personally fraked me with this one as I actually placed an order for a Pre 3 about 2 hours before they announced that they'd kill off WebOS.

1. They are the biggest seller of PC hardware in the world. But as the margins are too slim (mind you, they were still making a handsome profit), they've decided that the shareholders aren't getting enough money and kill off the whole branch, endangering tens of thousands of jobs within their own company and the supply chain.

So, here's to you HP: go f*** yourself. And thanks for all the fish.



EDIT: kill "off", not "of" - sorry, can't edit the title. Was kind of upset when I wrote this, since I just sank 299 GBP + Tax into what's now effectively a paper weight.

Last edited by dawiz; 19.08.2011 at 07:51.
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Old 19.08.2011, 08:56
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

One word - Apple.

Apple owns the mobile computing market (and by mobile I don't mean laptops, I mean pads and phones). Every other vendor is just fighting over the crumbs that have dropped from Apple's table. HP have, somewhat belatedly, realised this and bailed out of this market segment.

Apple's marketing machine have been hugely successful at basically imprinting into the minds of consumers that when it comes to tablets and phones, there's the iPad/iPhone, and then there's everything else. This has effectively cut and seriously curtailed every other vendor's clout in this market.

There's only one company that deserves the blame for HP dumping and running, and that's Apple.
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:02
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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One word - Apple.

Apple owns the mobile computing market (and by mobile I don't mean laptops, I mean pads and phones).
they own the pad market, not the phone market. Last time I checked, Android was at around 38% and Apple had 18% of the phone market.

Anyway, it was clear that WebOS wouldn't become no. one - but HP itself admits that it more than likely would have succeeded in securing a decent market share if HP had been willing to invest enough money and manpower.

The problem is that HP never actually cared - from the get go, Apotheker was out to kill HP's consumer business. WebOS is an unfortunate casualty of war - Palm was bought before Apotheker, the book keeper, took over. At a time, when HP still thought it could innovate. A few short months later, A. took over and started turning HP into a Systemhaus, à la SAP, because that's all he knows. So WebOS had to die - together, as it turns out, with the whole PC business.
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:15
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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they own the pad market, not the phone market. Last time I checked, Android was at around 38% and Apple had 18% of the phone market.
andriod, spread around loads of manufacturers, all undercutting each other and fighting amongst themselves, releasing handset after handset month after month, own 38% of the market, which earns them all bugger all

apple own 18% by themselves, on a handset they developed years ago and every year or so tweak a little bit, and sell for top dollar.

any one of those andiod companies would kill for a slice of apples iphone pie.
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:16
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

this is sad indeed. HP used to be a powerhouse of engineering innovation. now it's overrun by accountants.... RIP
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:17
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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any one of those andiod companies would kill for a slice of apples iphone pie.
sure - however, that doesn't change the market shares.
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:24
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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sure - however, that doesn't change the market shares.

but it does mean that anyone with half a brain would looks at the phone / ipad stats and say wtf would I want to take on apple, especially with a clone device running someone elses o/s where we can't control anything and people can just download stuff from anywhere for free.

the reviews I saw / read for the hp tablet where not exactly glowing either.

closing the pc division is quite odd though, sure it only makes up 13% of profits and 30% of turnover but that's still some pretty big numbers
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:29
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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but it does mean that anyone with half a brain would looks at the phone / ipad stats and say wtf would I want to take on apple, especially with a clone device
the question is who cloned what, right? As far as I can tell, Apple cloned Palm in most ways as Palm had been around a lot longer than Apple in the smartphone business - and their earlier smartphone OS looks a crapload like iOS to me. Apple can't even get credited for the all-display form-factor. That, too, had been around for a long time. So have tablet PCs with the same form factor.

Android is showing that it is definitely possible to beat Apple - two years ago, they were nowhere, today they outsell Apple two to one. With the necessary marketing, a large spread (licensing WebOS) and a large variety of devices, WebOS could very well have succeeded.

Peter
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:33
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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andriod, spread around loads of manufacturers, all undercutting each other and fighting amongst themselves, releasing handset after handset month after month, own 38% of the market, which earns them all bugger all

apple own 18% by themselves, on a handset they developed years ago and every year or so tweak a little bit, and sell for top dollar.

.
Best argument to not buy Apple.
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:52
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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Best argument to not buy Apple.

indeed it is, but the manufacturers and app developers are not making any money out of andriod, so there comes a point when they say why I am bothering.

out selling 2-1 makes no difference at all, I could sell an new tablet for $20 that beats the ipad in every way, and outsells it 100/1 but I wouldn't be making money and I'd go bust, comparing hundreds of manufactures lumped together against just 1 also isn't a fair comparison and makes andriod fanboys sound just as mental as apple fanboys.

people buy apple products for a few reasons, firstly they just work, no messing around, secondly they are more future proof then just about anything else there has ever been, even if you had a mk1 iphone you can still download new apps for it even now and of course marketing.

apples cash reserves speak for themselves $78b and growing, maybe HP should be touting its pc business to them

Oh and when did the best technology ever win?? vhs v beta etc etc
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:56
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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indeed it is, but the manufacturers and app developers are not making any money out of andriod, so there comes a point when they say why I am bothering.

out selling 2-1 makes no difference at all, I could sell an new tablet for $20 that beats the ipad in every way, and outsells it 100/1 but I wouldn't be making money and I'd go bust, comparing hundreds of manufactures lumped together against just 1 also isn't a fair comparison and makes andriod fanboys sound just as mental as apple fanboys.

people buy apple products for a few reasons, firstly they just work, no messing around, secondly they are more future proof then just about anything else there has ever been, even if you had a mk1 iphone you can still download new apps for it even now and of course marketing.

apples cash reserves speak for themselves $78b and growing, maybe HP should be touting its pc business to them

Oh and when did the best technology ever win?? vhs v beta etc etc
I don't see Samsung or HTC going broke anytime soon, tbh. Samsung is making a lot of money with the Galaxy S line of phones. HTC is doing rather well (except for the last quarter, which is hardly representative for the overall situation).

There are some developers (a lucky few) that actually do make a lot of money on Apple's App Store. By far the largest part never sees any cash. The number of apps is gigantic, individual developers don't stand a chance.

That goes for the Android Market as well, of course.

As for "Apple products just work" - that may be true if your expectations are very low. Of course, for most people, that's the case.
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Old 19.08.2011, 09:57
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

anyway, how did this turn into an Android vs. Apple thread?
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Old 19.08.2011, 10:04
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

I was just able to cancel my order with Palm Eurostore, thank god. Took me an hour to get through to them
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Old 19.08.2011, 10:05
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

so whats the theory behind hp walking away from pc's then? any big lawsuits in the pipeline? I don't understand why a company would throw away 13% of the profits.

Dell must be loving the news
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Old 19.08.2011, 10:14
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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so whats the theory behind hp walking away from pc's then? any big lawsuits in the pipeline? I don't understand why a company would throw away 13% of the profits.

Dell must be loving the news
yeah, I guess Dell and Acer are laughing their butts off.
I don't know what was behind the decision - I'd say this is mostly Apotheker's personal assessment of the market.

But then again: you don't hire a book keeper to run a high-tech company. You hire a nerd.

If their prospective system software deal blows up in their faces, they'll all regret the day they hired him. Just because IBM was able to pull off an all-out transformation into a business software company, doesn't mean HP can as well. IBM's main secret for their success was the fact that they didn't face much competition. For HP, things are different, as IBM holds a massive market share in the (sole) business HP intends to venture now. And IBM has a large cash reserve to fight HP off.
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Old 19.08.2011, 10:27
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

I think it is probably to do with hardware no longer making much money, the return on a single PC is incredibly low and therefore HP's profits from PC's is on the slide.
If you want to make money you need to sell software, probably why HP have just bought Autonomy.
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Old 19.08.2011, 10:33
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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I think it is probably to do with hardware no longer making much money, the return on a single PC is incredibly low and therefore HP's profits from PC's is on the slide.
If you want to make money you need to sell software, probably why HP have just bought Autonomy.
Selling software can be profitable - but there needs to be a market for it. There is, of course, a large market for business software. However, that market is very much saturated by IBM's presence.

Also, they WANT to buy Autonomy, they haven't bought it yet.

Yes, margins are low for the PC business - but staying in the consumer market doesn't mean they'd have to stick to the PC forever. The whole market is moving away from monolithic work tools, towards smaller, integrated systems. HP could have used WebOS to penetrate into those new fields, if they had wanted to. But again: it was clear from the minute Apotheker took over that he'd change the company into a system house, because, frankly, he can't handle anything else.
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Old 19.08.2011, 12:03
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

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so whats the theory behind hp walking away from pc's then? any big lawsuits in the pipeline? I don't understand why a company would throw away 13% of the profits.

Dell must be loving the news
...

13% of the profits is not very attractive if it takes 50% of your invested capital or management attention to generate. or if the growth rate for that market is stalling... or if you found alternative businesses that can use your expertise better or for any number of other valid reasons

(I'm not suggesting any of the above is true. just that it could potentially be a valid reason...)
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Old 19.08.2011, 12:13
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

Meh, pcs and tablets and phones all come and go- but an 11c is for forever.



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Old 19.08.2011, 16:18
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Re: HP kills of WebOS devices and wants to get rid of PCs as well

HP's stock is crashing. Lost 22.18% today, tendency: falling.

I'm secretly hoping for a miracle (e.g. board fires Apotheker, reverses decisions) but know that would hurt their pride too much for it to ever happen :-(
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