Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.08.2011, 14:58
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,231
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

I was piqued by this comment on t'other thread:

Quote:
View Post
We had a lot of debates about the placebo effect when I was studying psychology. Everybody seemed to agree that it would be a pity if human psyche was defined and explained away as a by-product of our physiology.
That kinda verges on the mystic/there's something out there, as you could, in theory, explain healing due to placebo effect through physiological mechanisms - after all the body can and does stop itself getting things like cancer throughout our lives through it's innate curing process, and being positive gives off all kinds of "positive" hormones that do go - a simple off-the-cuff example is the effect exercise on stress or diabetes.

However, I digress - it's hot. Damn hot! Real hot! Hottest things is my shorts. I could cook things in it. A little crotch pot cooking - from my question: to you non-religious folks (I'm likely one the people that Ruskov was having a pop at) does not believing is (a) God preclude believing in *ahem* the mystic arts (homeopathy, crystals, ley lines etc.), or are you all pretty much don't believe it until I see it?
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24.08.2011, 15:39
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24.08.2011, 15:47
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

I listen to a lot of alternative music, does that count?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24.08.2011, 15:51
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
I listen to a lot of alternative music, does that count?
so you are admitting that scientific music doesn't always work?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24.08.2011, 15:54
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
I listen to a lot of alternative music, does that count?
Yes.

Of course, the less you listen to, the better it is...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24.08.2011, 15:56
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,345
Groaned at 67 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 5,739 Times in 2,182 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
Yes.

Of course, the less you listen to, the better it is...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24.08.2011, 16:00
Helm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich<->St.Gallen
Posts: 2,209
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 4,136 Times in 1,371 Posts
Helm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond reputeHelm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

I don't exactly belong to your study group since I do believe in God, or at least the most delapidated idea of "There's something out there" *plays X-Files theme*.

But I don't belive in homeopathy. Or most of traditional medicines, to be honest. At some point I become really rude when offered these "alternative" services.

So, believeing in God doesn't necessarily make you believe in mumbo-jumbo Homeopathy and similars.

Hope answering to your question through the yard door doesn't offend the whole study case...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24.08.2011, 16:18
Louis Wu's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: varied, now Nouvelle Normandie
Posts: 1,024
Groaned at 24 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 907 Times in 455 Posts
Louis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

I would say that having a belief in god isn't a pre-requisite for belief in homeopathy or any other brand of alternative new age fad but it wouldn't hurt. Having such a belief (or affliction perhaps) does at least demonstrate a willingness to profess belief in something for which there is zero irrefutable proof.

As to the original question, is our consciousness a mere by-product of some physiological process I personally think that this is a distinct possibility.

EDIT, I wanted to add a reference to this book in the Homeopathy/Placebo thread but that thread is now suffering from serious overbloat and I can't be bothered to read throught it any more so I'll add the reference here. An interesting book on that topic (placebo) as well as this topic (consciousness etc) is this one: http://www.13thingsthatdontmakesense.com/
The website is a spin-off from the book and very interesting. You can also read more about the topics in the New Scientist online but you'll need a subscription there to read the whole article.
__________________
Mens sana in campari soda
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24.08.2011, 16:32
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,203
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 2,205 Times in 839 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Having a rough day at work, but I can't pass on this chance: no religion, no homeopathy, no biodynamic craniosacral therapy, no magicians, no Freddie Krueger.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24.08.2011, 16:37
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,231
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

I'm not asking whether belief in God leads to belief in "other". Like Helm, I believe in God (irrational, I know) but also science - hence I don't believe in homeopathy. However, I accept that believing in one will likely be correlated with belief in the other.

I'm asking the opposite: whether being an atheist generally precludes being into alternative stuff (music aside - there's no accounting for taste after all... ).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 24.08.2011, 16:40
prof. taratonga's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Zürich & Bignasco
Posts: 2,310
Groaned at 27 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 4,546 Times in 1,441 Posts
prof. taratonga has a reputation beyond reputeprof. taratonga has a reputation beyond reputeprof. taratonga has a reputation beyond reputeprof. taratonga has a reputation beyond reputeprof. taratonga has a reputation beyond reputeprof. taratonga has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

non-/anti-religion

I call myself religion free!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24.08.2011, 17:00
Louis Wu's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: varied, now Nouvelle Normandie
Posts: 1,024
Groaned at 24 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 907 Times in 455 Posts
Louis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond reputeLouis Wu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
I'm not asking whether belief in God leads to belief in "other". Like Helm, I believe in God (irrational, I know) but also science - hence I don't believe in homeopathy. However, I accept that believing in one will likely be correlated with belief in the other.

I'm asking the opposite: whether being an atheist generally precludes being into alternative stuff (music aside - there's no accounting for taste after all... ).

OK, I'd say that being non religious, atheist or whatever you term it should not preclude being into other alternative stuff - provided that the alternative stuff can be found to be based upon fact and reason, not mumbo-jumbo.
I believe in alternative music for example ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24.08.2011, 17:12
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
I'm asking the opposite: whether being an atheist generally precludes being into alternative stuff (music aside - there's no accounting for taste after all... ).
If, instead of assuming "alternative" is a euphemism for, mystical, mysterious, supernatural or some other whimsical term, and instead define "alternative" as unexplained, but working, then yes, of course it can be accepted.

However, as soon as it's shown to be working, it's no longer "alternative", unless it really is an alternative to an existing effective solution. The word "alternative" is basically a branding tool in most cases, to appeal to "alternative" people. I don't accept one has to believe all manner of BS in order to be alternative.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24.08.2011, 17:44
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,231
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Well, yes, I am using "alternative" to include a range of "beliefs" if you will, e.g. auras, magnetism, ley lines, crystals, homeopathy, etc., rather than things like accupuncture, herbal medicine and the like which have some grounding in the "here and now".

I could well imagine someone who doesn't believe in God or Gods, but does believe in homeopathy. I'm just curious whether "generally" the sceptism (for want of a better word) amongst atheists extends to other areas of life... Seeing there's a bunch of you a-religious Zealots () on EF, just thought I'd ask.
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24.08.2011, 18:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Well, as a theological noncognitivist, for me the statement "God exists." has no meaning, and likewise the statement "God does not exist." is also meaningless. (I don't know what you mean when you say "God exists.")

However, the statement "Homeopathy works." does have meaning, and moreover can be falsified.

So, yes, the two can coexist.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 25.08.2011, 10:31
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

In theory yes, but in practice it's far from being the case. People are just irrational beings in general. Many atheists believe in poltergeists, astrology, UFOs, chem trails, homeopathy.

Maybe it's not irrationality, but a common element I've found is that people need some kind of narrative. Anything that's unexplainable, we'll find our own dumbed-down explanation for it, since it's much easier to make up a story than actually keep your mind open or admit you don't now. So a supreme being who, if exists, is likely beyond our understanding becomes a single parent who has a few rules for you. Unexplainable phenomenea in a home become ghosts of people who used to live there. Unexplainable flying objects become aliens who visit us and are oh-so-interested in us (which is slightly narcissitic if you think about it.). And on and on.

So for me it's a difference between keeping an open mind and attaching yourself to a narrative (ceasing to ask questions). If you work from narrative backwards, that's when you start having problems. That's when you start believing that a pill which is literally water cured an ailment you had and the evil scientific fascist complex is trying to keep this knowledge hidden. All because you believe in it really really hard.

So yeah, I thought it was slightly ironic to see some religious people gang up on UtH2008 in the other thread with such vigour and condescension. They've been in his place in other threads and the parallels between the irrationality of his beliefs and theirs are quite clear to people who are outside looking in. Whether you'd like to admit it or not is another matter...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 25.08.2011, 10:48
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,065
Groaned at 651 Times in 504 Posts
Thanked 25,873 Times in 10,429 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
In theory yes, but in practice it's far from being the case. People are just irrational beings in general. Many atheists believe in poltergeists, astrology, UFOs, chem trails, homeopathy.
Really, are you sure about that? I know many atheists and none of them believe in any of the above.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 25.08.2011, 10:53
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,516
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,652 Times in 18,690 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
pretty much don't believe it until I see it?
Yes, that's how I am.

Comes with the name.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 25.08.2011, 10:57
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,203
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 2,205 Times in 839 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

After the additional definitions I confirm what I stated above: as an atheist I don't believe in any mysticism-related topics nor in non-demonstrated phenomena. Anything reproducible under scientific conditions I'm to happy to accept without seeing or experiencing, but pseudo-scientific beliefs (UFOs, Planet X, face on Mars usw)...it upsets me quite a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25.08.2011, 10:58
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: -
Posts: 1,640
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 2,932 Times in 1,202 Posts
Russkov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond reputeRusskov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Does non-/anti-religion = non-"alternative"?

Quote:
View Post
Really, are you sure about that? I know many atheists and none of them believe in any of the above.
Oh, I wish I wasn't. Some people I know laugh at religious belief, yet read their horoscope every morning and have it set the tone for their entire day. Just on this forum you have people posting info about chem trails and bashing religion in another thread. Go to a UFO convention and take a survey to see what percentage don't believe in God. I think you'll be surprised by the results.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
i'm melting, random question




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Visiting the UK, with a Non-EU passport, with a swiss "carte de legitimation" Kalvaer General off-topic 7 21.07.2011 22:03
Need the "attestation de non-poursuite" letter from BS The Real Stig Housing in general 9 24.06.2011 14:35
Spouse of non-EU "L" holder has job offer hawkiwa Permits/visas/government 1 03.08.2009 20:14
"non-compete" clause .... legal ? dino Employment 19 21.02.2008 09:51
Non-"Schlange" snake? MathNut Language corner 8 02.10.2007 12:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0