Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30.08.2011, 22:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

My Boss lives in Spain and I have to go there frequently for meetings. I normally stay at one of his houses in a posh subdivision near Valencia.

Previously (over the last 10 years) Ive seen one or two ZH license plates in the area and made a mental note of it.

Last month I went back to Spain for 2 weeks and couldnt help but notice ALL of the neighbors in the entire subdivision were all Swiss!!!

My wife and I got to talking to these neighbors and it turns out that they werent there just for the summer sun. They all had relocated their entire families there! Obviously the exchange rate has something to do with it but the reason they all gave us was the same: Switzerland has a low quality of life and low quality schools.

Now this area is posh by Spanish standards but not expensive by Swiss standards. An 8 bedroom home on 3000 m2 with a pool costs you about 500,000Euros (try getting that in Zurich). They also explained that the private schools were all taught in German by top quality teachers and the price was euro2,000 per year!

So I dont get it? Everyone I talk to says they are in CH for the quality of life (and many Texans wants to move here citing the same reason) but the Swiss seem to think otherwise.

Have the Swiss gone mad? Or is the quality of life in CH getting worse? And try not to blame the Ausslanders!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30.08.2011, 22:37
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,540
Groaned at 204 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

They are living in a strong Franc bubble. They could get 10 x that in , say, Thailand. As always, with a few exceptions, people say wherever they are is the best. Heaven forbid they would admit to making a wrong decision. Keeping up appearances etc.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30.08.2011, 22:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

I know several who have returned to CH after a few years in Spain and got so fed up with the ex-pat life, lack of seasons, corruption and so many other reasons. The grass can certainly be very yellow in Spain, lol.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30.08.2011, 23:03
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

What I am experiencing right now about school is that they have high standart, begin much younger and teach much more things at a younger age. School are really cheap but very well run and maintain. Zero tolerance with bullying, integration is very important, supported and helped.

I can't not compare it with CH personnally. Only with what friends and forum members reported.

But I think it is much easier to find crap here because you don't have a standard of quality but a big range from very very crap to excellent.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30.08.2011, 23:05
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
I know several who have returned to CH after a few years in Spain and got so fed up with the ex-pat life, lack of seasons, corruption and so many other reasons. The grass can certainly be very yellow in Spain, lol.
Ive met quite a few English people who have moved back in the last 2 years. But that was mainly due to the GBP collapsing or a spouse dying. The only Swiss Ive met (before this year) who have moved there are still there and own some sort of business. But Im sure a few have returned.

I just find it amazing that they have moved their families. The English typically wait till the family is grown up and out of the house before setting off to the Med. I think thats why this is awkward to me.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30.08.2011, 23:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
View Post

But I think it is much easier to find crap here because you don't have a standard of quality but a big range from very very crap to excellent.
100% agree.... Especially if youre a family of 4 & only have one Spouse that works. Carrefour makes a big difference in your expenses at the end of every month. And the variety is almost too much for the senses.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30.08.2011, 23:16
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Anybody know why I cant add thanks in this thread? I can on most but not all threads. Thanks FMF
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30.08.2011, 23:22
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,168
Groaned at 290 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 10,930 Times in 4,111 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
View Post
Anybody know why I cant add thanks in this thread? I can on most but not all threads. Thanks FMF
I think that's because it's categorized as an "off-topic" thread. This was the category that the OP chose for his thread when he created it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30.08.2011, 23:32
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 5,168
Groaned at 290 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 10,930 Times in 4,111 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

I wouldn't be surprised if some Swiss do choose to relocate to a cheaper country if, for example, they lose a source of income and want their savings to stretch further. I always hear that salaries are so much higher here in CH, but from what I've seen, not all salaries are high enough to "justify" the cost of living here.

For me, the one thing that really gets to me about living in CH is the realization that I will probably NEVER live in a house again or have my own yard to garden in or for my kids to play in, etc., because most houses here are so insanely expensive. So that is something that I do take into consideration when I form my own personal definition of "quality of life." In my opinion, there is more to it than just lack of crime, etc. Everyone defines their own happiness differently, I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30.08.2011, 23:42
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Here a family can't rarely live on one income only. The majority of couples are both working.

The biggest advantage in it is the price of daycare which is very cheap for Ch standard (but can be still very expensive here) it cost us, right now, 400 Euro/ month for full day, lunch included.

Life isn't that much cheaper than CH. The prices are lower (Same as Germany) the rent (in BCN) are very high like in CH. Fruits & Veggies are cheap. The problem is the salary is very low in general, even for German standard.

So in Barcelona you have Swiss price for rent, german price for goods, spanish prices for fruits & veggies with a spanish salary.

The last few years, they have seen more expats leaving the country than moving in.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 31.08.2011, 00:03
tom tulpe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Horgen
Posts: 1,182
Groaned at 21 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,409 Times in 646 Posts
tom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond reputetom tulpe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
View Post
Ive met quite a few English people who have moved back in the last 2 years. But that was mainly due to the GBP collapsing or a spouse dying. The only Swiss Ive met (before this year) who have moved there are still there and own some sort of business. But Im sure a few have returned.

I just find it amazing that they have moved their families. The English typically wait till the family is grown up and out of the house before setting off to the Med. I think thats why this is awkward to me.
The English went when the pound was strong, so they figured they could have a good life on their pensions, and they went after the kids had moved out because many sold the house (when the housing market was booming, too) to finance the move.

If (if!) the CHF collapses against the Euro, the Swiss will move back as well.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 31.08.2011, 00:22
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

It's all relative isn't it? The fact is if you are living a "cheaper" country but you earn or have a strong currency then life is good. If you live in the same country on a local salary then you have the same problems that you have back home.

It's a bit of joke really. I know people down here in Argentina who say their QOL is better here. Well, yeah. If you live on CHF/EUR and have a giant house in a closed neighborhood (paid for by the company) with full time maid & nanny, private schools, etc, I'd be a happy girl too. But you can't tell me that over all the QOL in Argentina or Spain local to local level is better than Switzerland.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 31.08.2011, 08:56
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
View Post
It's all relative isn't it? The fact is if you are living a "cheaper" country but you earn or have a strong currency then life is good. If you live in the same country on a local salary then you have the same problems that you have back home.

It's a bit of joke really. I know people down here in Argentina who say their QOL is better here. Well, yeah. If you live on CHF/EUR and have a giant house in a closed neighborhood (paid for by the company) with full time maid & nanny, private schools, etc, I'd be a happy girl too. But you can't tell me that over all the QOL in Argentina or Spain local to local level is better than Switzerland.
Yes, with this kind of exemple, you are totally right.

It should be good to have a definition of what is the Quality of Life we talk here. Because for exemple, in our case, we are not better here than we were in CH. Money wise, we didn't have anything better (at all!) by moving here. We moved for the work experience, the culture and the living here.

If you look at it like I see it. Without a better paycheck, our quality of life is much better here. Obviously for a very different reasons than your exemples. If we had the money they have to come with it, we will be in heaven!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 31.08.2011, 10:12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

@Nil: I think Barcelona is even expensive by Spanish standards as its a major tourist hub. Tourism is there main industry and that makes things difficult for people who have normal jobs. You are competing with people who are spending Euro2,000 per week while on vacation. Im always amazed when I go to Catalonia how expensive it is (ESPECIALLY the toll roads!).

But the fact that Spain is the sunniest place in Europe helps when determining the quality of life.

Currencies will always play a part though. During the German hyperinflation of 1923 Germany was ranked as having the highest quality of life in Europe. Why? Because in USD terms real estate prices dropped 95% and everyone had gone into food production (as barter and exchange had broken down for everything else). The government had price controls on things like train fare and rents, so the quality of life went up for 5 years after the hyperinflation.

Just because its currency related (mean reverting) does that make it lower quality? I think its a good investment to send your kids to a private school.

But other things that cant be manipulated by FX, like sunshine, do make sense.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 31.08.2011, 19:51
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
View Post
Just because its currency related (mean reverting) does that make it lower quality? I think its a good investment to send your kids to a private school.
It doesn't make it better either.

There is nothing wrong with private schooling. But most people can't afford to send their kids to private school. So they are stuck with public schools which here in Argentina are getting worse and worse. If we had kids I wouldn't be able to afford to send my kids to private school and we make 3 times (or more) the national average.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 31.08.2011, 19:54
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 199
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 81 Posts
AhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputation
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Exactly. This is why on EF you see lots of defensive posts about life in Switzerland and lots about how bad <the place they used to be> is.

To challenge an expats choice of residence is to challenge their judgement.

AYB

Quote:
View Post
As always, with a few exceptions, people say wherever they are is the best. Heaven forbid they would admit to making a wrong decision. Keeping up appearances etc.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 31.08.2011, 19:54
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
View Post
It doesn't make it better either.

There is nothing wrong with private schooling. But most people can't afford to send their kids to private school. So they are stuck with public schools which here in Argentina are getting worse and worse. If we had kids I wouldn't be able to afford to send my kids to private school and we make 3 times (or more) the national average.
Then youre in the wrong business, start a Private School
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 31.08.2011, 20:06
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

So many things have to be taken into account - many come here for a high salary, then get fed up that it isn't 'that' high as rents, goods and foods are more expensive.

CarrieF - if you live in Zurich, or Geneva, owning a house with a garden is but a very distant dream. But there are many areas in CH where large houses with nice gardens and even land, can still be had for a fraction.
I know people near me who have jobs in Neuchatel, Bern, Yverdon or Lausanne and commute. Some live in Geneva, and dad has a studio in town and work there Tuesday to Thursday - and work home rest of the time. With excellent WIFI, cable and Skype - it is not a problem. Choices to be made. It's seems strange to me that a large proportion of those who work in London commute a long distance - but not here in CH. If you are prepared to buy older houses that need a bit of renovating, there are still amazing bargains to be had, here in the VD and NE Jura + within short distance for shopping in France.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 31.08.2011, 20:34
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Quote:
View Post
Then youre in the wrong business, start a Private School
No kiddin'. We are just cogs in the corporate wheels. But sadly I couldn't teach a cat to find it's way out of paper bag... or whatever the idiom is.

I can't complain too much though. It's not perfect, but in general I'm happy where ever you set me down.



Quote:
I know people near me who have jobs in Neuchatel, Bern, Yverdon or Lausanne and commute. Some live in Geneva, and dad has a studio in town and work there Tuesday to Thursday - and work home rest of the time. With excellent WIFI, cable and Skype - it is not a problem. Choices to be made. It's seems strange to me that a large proportion of those who work in London commute a long distance - but not here in CH. If you are prepared to buy older houses that need a bit of renovating, there are still amazing bargains to be had, here in the VD and NE Jura + within short distance for shopping in France.
You know, we thought about this. We were going to buy a lovely farm house with lots of land in France plus a small apt in town. But at the end of the day, being away from my man 4/5 days a week would very much bring down my QOL.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 31.08.2011, 20:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Swiss Think Switzerland Has A Low Quality Of Life?

Life is just one big compromise. Of course from here (still in CH but near France) it is an easy commute to several cities. There might well be places where you could rent or buy a bigger place with a garden within a fairly easy commute, without having to be apart. Same as living in Surrey, Kent, etc and working in London. I know many who commute from the Midlands to London too. Look around- be inventive, think outside the box - and be prepared to compromise, as always.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cheap, emigration, quality of life, spain




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Britain has worst quality of life in Europe: study by www.uswitch.com jrspet General off-topic 28 11.11.2009 20:35
Low quality of life in Switzerland. Canadian_dude Complaints corner 270 26.09.2009 20:15
Quality of life survey Guest Daily life 5 09.02.2009 10:42


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0