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  #61  
Old 04.10.2011, 14:33
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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It's true... You could, however, do what I did and top up the last breast feed at night with a bottle of formula feed.
Babies are not really designed to sleep through the night - co sleeping and breast feeding is how I imagine things used to be before we become modernised, i doubt there were sleepless nights issue back then. Modern lifestyles and pressures mean we expect our babies to sleep through and feed to a rigid routine - I wonder if animals in the wild or captivity expect their young to stick to a routine and sleep through the night away from their mothers?

I bowed to modern pressures and didn't co sleep and did expect and want my baby to sleep through - but thinking about it logically it's not really the natural way is it?
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Old 04.10.2011, 15:00
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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It doesn't just stop with breastfeeding in these cases, either. My sister's first MIL had her hand in every aspect of my sister's baby's early days. When she should feed, when she should sleep, which doctor she should have, etc., etc.

She was even forcing the baby into the Catholic church and had arranged the christening all on the quiet. Evil bint.
UGH!! That's a huge reason why my first marriage didn't work out. My ex chose to be his mama's boy over having a mature, adult life with me & making educated decisions. I told him of course we needed to take his family's advice into account, but if he decided to disrespect and/or be unsupportive of me in front of his family, I was leaving. Good riddance!

Fortunately, my husband now and I are on the same page - and how we want to raise our child is flying in the way of convention with his family but they're totally cool with it and.....and....AND....actually want us to be happy
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Old 04.10.2011, 18:06
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Re: Power and breast feeding

Sometimes formula can be quite a saviour for women who dont have enough milk supply. I tried so hard to breastfeed..pumping. medicines but nothing worked.. In my case the milk came in late and by that time my daugter was put on formula Since it was easier at the bottle than at the breast, my daughter refused to nurse.. I had a lovely midwife and she tried helping a lot. But there wasnt much of a milk let down.. At the end of the day i had to bottle feed . The associated depression with being unable to breastfeed was immense. And i come from a culture where breastfeeding is a must. Bottle feeding is not an accepted norm. Due to that i did not enjoy completely the first few months with daughter


I would have loved to breastfeed.. Its so convenient. You dont need to carry sterilized water and bottles and what have you.But unfortunately it wasnt for me... To this day i carry that guilt of not being able to breastfeed and it just wont go away
My daughter is bottle fed and she is completely healthy.. She is a happy child and very active

Looking back i feel its most important to enjoy your child rather than fuss over bottle or breastfeeding.. We can only try to do the best we can for our children..
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Old 04.10.2011, 18:22
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Re: Power and breast feeding

I tried to bf all 3 of my boys but wasnt able to for various reasons they all ended up losing too much weight and not regaining after birth so switched to formula in the end... therefore they all ended up ff and all different regarding night sleeping.. my eldest who is 5 still wakes up sometimes now, middle one slept from 4 weeks and youngest was about 12 weeks before he slept through the night.

Bear in mind babies have growth spurts at various times, 8, 12, 16 weeks and 6 mths (someone correct me if the timings a little off, this seemed to be the pattern of my sons).. at these points especially if bf as they need to stimulate your supply they may wake more than usual at night but will pass.

good luck on your upcoming arrival
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  #65  
Old 04.10.2011, 18:24
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Re: Power and breast feeding

My ex got more pressure and comments because she bottle-fed both our kids. It was one of the the things that would really upset her....people judging her for not breastfeeding without even really knowing her, or the reason why. There are pros and cons for both sides, but at the end of the day it's the parents decision, based on beliefs, culture or ability.

In the long run, does it make a difference? When you take your kids to school, can you identify which of the other kids were breastfed and which weren't? Or can a Doctor tell by examining their medical records?
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Old 04.10.2011, 18:27
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Re: Power and breast feeding

Agreed - nobody should be made guilty for not breastfeeding.
The point I was trying to make, badly, is that some women DO WANT to breastfeed and are pressurised not to, for a variety of reasons.
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Old 04.10.2011, 18:35
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Sometimes formula can be quite a saviour for women who dont have enough milk supply. I tried so hard to breastfeed..pumping. medicines but nothing worked.. In my case the milk came in late and by that time my daugter was put on formula Since it was easier at the bottle than at the breast, my daughter refused to nurse.. I had a lovely midwife and she tried helping a lot. But there wasnt much of a milk let down.. At the end of the day i had to bottle feed . The associated depression with being unable to breastfeed was immense. And i come from a culture where breastfeeding is a must. Bottle feeding is not an accepted norm. Due to that i did not enjoy completely the first few months with daughter


I would have loved to breastfeed.. Its so convenient. You dont need to carry sterilized water and bottles and what have you.But unfortunately it wasnt for me... To this day i carry that guilt of not being able to breastfeed and it just wont go away
My daughter is bottle fed and she is completely healthy.. She is a happy child and very active

Looking back i feel its most important to enjoy your child rather than fuss over bottle or breastfeeding.. We can only try to do the best we can for our children..
I had a very hard time too to breastfeed with my first. It last for 4 months until the milk dried out. I wasn't mixing with formula, I tried to pump and pump and pump and everyday it was less and less. At the end, I introduced the bottle (I should have done it earlier, my poor hungry baby) and I recorded the last feeding. It was an immense guilt trip.

I felt so much pressure to breastfeed. From the mommies & babies group I was into, from the hospital and the nurses, my MIL to the strangers to felt the need to get involve in my boobs matters.

I had a very difficult first four months. And when at the end I had to give her the bottle, my guilt gave it's place to peaceful and relaxed feelings. I felt free!! And I discovered the joy of the bottle, how convenient and stress free it was for me.

So when this second baby came around I was not going to breastfeed. The first pregnancy came out with some health conditions that make me take medications for the rest of my life so breastfeeding was not going to happen. And deep down, I was very happy and relieved to have this real and valid excuse. It helped to take the guilt trip off my shoulders when the breastfeeding nazis were going to show up...

I found the second time much easier even while deeling with a pre-schooler in the same time. Proof that the mental is very important.

What's matter is an happy mommy. If the mommy is happy and relax, the baby will be happy and relax too.
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Old 04.10.2011, 19:37
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Agreed - nobody should be made guilty for not breastfeeding.
The point I was trying to make, badly, is that some women DO WANT to breastfeed and are pressurised not to, for a variety of reasons.
Right. I get that.

The point I'm trying to make is that some women DO NOT WANT to breastfeed and are pressurized to do so for a variety of reasons. But your friend at LLL doesn't mind that, does she?

Why does it change the fact that these women are "immigrants" and their husbands/mil's are the ones pushing for the decision not to BF? Why are their reasons not good enough? What if the woman just doesn't want to for no reason what so ever? Does she have to justify it all the time? Can you imagine the faces she would get if she said "You know. I just don't want to"? Would your friend at LLL be upset & would we be having this discussion if these "immigrant' woman were being pushed to BF by their husbands/mils when they didn't want to?

Personally I'd love to know where these immigrants are from.

There are no right or wrong answers. It's just a different perspective.
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Old 04.10.2011, 19:48
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Aaaaarrrghhhhh.....

Ok, stop watching Me, myself and Irene. It.Does.Not.Happen.In.Real.Life. If you don't have a baby, you don't need to have anyone "cleaning" your chest.
never seen the film (can't stand jim carey) but just found the relevant clip on youtube
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Old 04.10.2011, 19:55
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Re: Power and breast feeding

OK - my last post on this. The point is I am (again badly) making, is that if either husband, family or mother, mother-in-law is making it impossible, or even just give the baby formula, AGAINST the wishes of the mother- then is is just as wrong.

I accept that women do often feel pressured to BF, when they would rather not, and that this is NOT right, absolutely- no question.

It would however be near on impossible to force a woman to BF - whereas close family members can make it impossible or extremely difficult for a mum to BF. As said, I was totally surprised that this happens, and not just the odd case. The GP who confirmed many of these cases is not a BF fanatic or involved at all with any BF promoting group - just regular observed such cases in some new mums.

Mums are pressured from all sides- and from different angles. LLL helpers do not however have daily access to them in their home over a period of weeks and months (unless clearly requested to attend)- family, husbands, mothers and mils are. A mum who is desperate to breastfeed and is prevented from doing so by her nearest, who feed formula to the baby without the mums approval, is NOT a happy mum. Do you see what I am trying to say?
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Old 04.10.2011, 20:09
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Re: Power and breast feeding

An interesting article touching a little on my last post. Breast feeding is completely different to bottle feeding, I think people expect a breast fed baby to feed like a bottle fed baby. Oh how I wish I knew all this 10 months ago

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/09/why-a...-dont-cry.html
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Old 04.10.2011, 20:44
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Babies are not really designed to sleep through the night - co sleeping and breast feeding is how I imagine things used to be before we become modernised, i doubt there were sleepless nights issue back then. Modern lifestyles and pressures mean we expect our babies to sleep through and feed to a rigid routine - I wonder if animals in the wild or captivity expect their young to stick to a routine and sleep through the night away from their mothers?

I bowed to modern pressures and didn't co sleep and did expect and want my baby to sleep through - but thinking about it logically it's not really the natural way is it?
Yeah, co sleeping and breastfeeding in the "old days" I'm sure were all very cosy and romantic but most women had an extended family round them to help out with the daily chores such as chopping wood for the fire and cooking and babysitting each other's children. For the nuclear family and, particularly the mother, it is important to get a good night's sleep now and then in order to preserve the sanity and health of the mother and baby.
I, by the way, got pneumonia 6 months after the birth of my second child which I know was due to low resistance due to lack of sleep.
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Old 04.10.2011, 22:33
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Yeah, co sleeping and breastfeeding in the "old days" I'm sure were all very cosy and romantic but most women had an extended family round them to help out with the daily chores such as chopping wood for the fire and cooking and babysitting each other's children. For the nuclear family and, particularly the mother, it is important to get a good night's sleep now and then in order to preserve the sanity and health of the mother and baby.
I, by the way, got pneumonia 6 months after the birth of my second child which I know was due to low resistance due to lack of sleep.
But the average nuclear family mother is no longer busy chopping wood and thus (potentially) has more time at her disposal . But getting enough sleep has always been a problem for the mothers of young babies, so I am thankful for the invention of autoatic washing machines, dryers, freezers etc.

Odile, I agree with you totally - there ARE many subtle and not so subtle pressures that work against mothers desires, and perhaps ability, to breastfeed. Music Chick touched on one culture issue - the amount of time a women can get ooff work. I grew up hearing adults tut-tutting about the supposed social conditions in Eastern Europe, where a lot of mothers went back to work and babies were left in nurseries all day. Now it seems that conditions have reversed - the role of those women as mothers is now acknowledged, with 2-3 years of maternity leave being the norm, whilst in the west we now put pressure for mothers to get back in the workforce as soon as possible, leaving their babies in the nurseries now. In Switzerland it seems (from what I have been exposed to) that women are going back to work 3-6 months after having their babies; something that certainly discourages breastfeeding.

Also, the lack of knowledge of many doctors, is a factor in having many mothers feel that they cannot feed their babies. ( lactation does not take up much study time) . Perhaps the most subtle reasons for not feeding do actually come from the life experiences of the mothers who just don't want to feed. If one has grown up in a society where breastfeeding is not considered a norm and a relaxed, comfortable stage of rearing a child, then I would think one is less likely to want to feed, or be as cofortable with it.

Personally, I am grateful for my annoying older sister who cajoled me into breastfeeding despite my first baby being premature and well over a week old before I was first given the opportunity to even try to feed him myself.
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Old 04.10.2011, 22:45
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Re: Power and breast feeding

You are touching on another issue here. Many women now do not get encouragement or support, as people (be they mothers, friends, sisters, etc) or professionals (doctors, midwives, health visitors, etc) are too afraid of being seen as being pushy. Some women would just need a nod and reassurance, a little emotional and practical support to be able to BF successfully- but don't get it for that reason. A great shame too.
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Old 04.10.2011, 23:02
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Agreed - nobody should be made guilty for not breastfeeding.
The point I was trying to make, badly, is that some women DO WANT to breastfeed and are pressurised not to, for a variety of reasons.
I can see that happening especially here in France - where breastfeeding is NOT popular. In fact, I rarely see women public BF or with baby carriers. The stroller is THE thing here. The attitude is that breasts are for your husband and women are also eager (or have to) get back to work.

As a foreigner, I can come across as the crazy liberal BF-ing hippy. But for French women, I'd imagine the pressure to not breastfeed for very long could be overwhelming.
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Old 05.10.2011, 07:48
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Re: Power and breast feeding

Being a woman is not an easy task.

The media have taught us very well that breast are meant to be shameful, sexual, forbidden, big and firm, and existing solely for the pleasure of men. A lot of the things sold in shops are sexualized. And if a child is taught this that from a young age (through conscious and unconscious means ) then she/he will grow up to have distorted view of their breasts and that of their wives and women in general.

"The consequences of the sexualisation of girls in media today are very real. We have ample evidence to conclude that sexualisation has negative effects in a variety of domains, including cognitive functioning, physical and mental health, and healthy sexual development." Dr Eileen Zurbriggen, chair of the group and associate professor of psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

Remember how the nation was shocked to see Janet Jackson bare her breast during the Superbowl game, yet had no problem with the provocatively dressed dancers surrounding her with their sexualized dancing.

We are slammed by such images (below) every single day.
http://www.triumph.com/ie/tia_assets...ery_nf_ch3.jpg
These images negatively affect young girls and boys in many ways.

It is no surprise that the breast is considered a sexual organ, which in actual fact it is not. The breast in a female contains the mammary glands that secrete milk used to feed babies.

Breastfeeding is difficult in our society today. Many women who want to breastfeed don’t have a “village” to help us raise our children. A lot of mothers are under so much stress to nurse, to look after the other children, to cook, to clean, to please the husband, to get back into shape, to get back to work. Breastfeeding is physiologically one of the most demanding things to a woman’s body. And if she does not have help around she, why blame her for turning to formulae to feed her child.

A father’s role in giving support and encouragement to his wife during breastfeeding is unquestionable. Without this the mother’s hope to breast feed their child is made incredibly difficult. In our society today, many have not been exposed to it. Many view the breast as a sexualized object. Many want their wives to get back to the way the looked before being pregnant. Fathers who view breastfeeding as a sexual act have a much bigger psychological problem (IMO). I believe that fathers play a very big role in whether the child is breast fed or not. Almost all the time mothers pay a price if they choose to breastfeed the child against the wishes of the father.

In regards on how to nurse the grandchild, mother-in-law should just BUTT OUT. The sign of war in Chinese is mother-in-law and daughter-in-law under the same roof.

Father-in-laws. If their wives are interfering with their son’s family, FIL should step in and have a word with their wives to butt out. And FIL should hopefully have learnt from their time as a father on the difficulties when the new baby is around and share that wisdom with his son.

There are 101 reasons why Breastfeeding is good for the baby and for the mother. However on a much larger scale, breastfeeding also benefits society as a whole.

Not an easy task being a mother.
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  #77  
Old 05.10.2011, 09:43
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Being a woman is not an easy task.
Being a Father is not an easy task.

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The media have taught us very well that breast are meant to be shameful, sexual, forbidden, big and firm, and existing solely for the pleasure of men. A lot of the things sold in shops are sexualized. And if a child is taught this that from a young age (through conscious and unconscious means ) then she/he will grow up to have distorted view of their breasts and that of their wives and women in general.

"The consequences of the sexualisation of girls in media today are very real. We have ample evidence to conclude that sexualisation has negative effects in a variety of domains, including cognitive functioning, physical and mental health, and healthy sexual development." Dr Eileen Zurbriggen, chair of the group and associate professor of psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

Remember how the nation was shocked to see Janet Jackson bare her breast during the Superbowl game, yet had no problem with the provocatively dressed dancers surrounding her with their sexualized dancing.

We are slammed by such images (below) every single day.
http://www.triumph.com/ie/tia_assets...ery_nf_ch3.jpg
These images negatively affect young girls and boys in many ways.

It is no surprise that the breast is considered a sexual organ, which in actual fact it is not. The breast in a female contains the mammary glands that secrete milk used to feed babies.
Women have been using their breasts sexually since the dawn of time. Even with places without high levels of media in current times the breast is part of the armoury used when attracting a partner.

Quote:
Breastfeeding is difficult in our society today. Many women who want to breastfeed don’t have a “village” to help us raise our children. A lot of mothers are under so much stress to nurse, to look after the other children, to cook, to clean, to please the husband, to get back into shape, to get back to work. Breastfeeding is physiologically one of the most demanding things to a woman’s body. And if she does not have help around she, why blame her for turning to formulae to feed her child.

A father’s role in giving support and encouragement to his wife during breastfeeding is unquestionable. Without this the mother’s hope to breast feed their child is made incredibly difficult. In our society today, many have not been exposed to it. Many view the breast as a sexualized object. Many want their wives to get back to the way the looked before being pregnant. Fathers who view breastfeeding as a sexual act have a much bigger psychological problem (IMO). I believe that fathers play a very big role in whether the child is breast fed or not. Almost all the time mothers pay a price if they choose to breastfeed the child against the wishes of the father.
The Father experiences immense pressure on the need to be the breadwinner once a family arrives. Each day, in difficult economica times the unending requirement to provide for the family exists. Many mothers want their partners to provide a high level of disposable income to provide for their child. While the Father toils daily without the contact and joy of their sibling the mother experiences the joy at all times.


Quote:
There are 101 reasons why Breastfeeding is good for the baby and for the mother. However on a much larger scale, breastfeeding also benefits society as a whole.
There are 101 reasons why using Formula milk is beneficial for the mother. Formula feeding also benefits society as a whole.

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Not an easy task being a mother.
And it is not an easy task being a father. So while your all blaring on about "many women" being "pressurized" perhaps you could put some numbers behind it. no one I know, have known, know that friends know or have ever talked to has discussed not wanting their partner to breastfeed so they have exclusive access to their boobs.

It's almost like watching a Feminists Unite meeting taking place.

Last edited by Mikers; 05.10.2011 at 09:53.
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Old 05.10.2011, 10:17
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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You are touching on another issue here. Many women now do not get encouragement or support, as people (be they mothers, friends, sisters, etc) or professionals (doctors, midwives, health visitors, etc) are too afraid of being seen as being pushy. Some women would just need a nod and reassurance, a little emotional and practical support to be able to BF successfully- but don't get it for that reason. A great shame too.
I agree, totally.
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Old 05.10.2011, 10:19
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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It's almost like watching a Feminists Unite meeting taking place.
Damned if we do. Damned if we don't!!
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Old 05.10.2011, 10:37
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Re: Power and breast feeding

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Being a Father is not an easy task.

The Father experiences immense pressure on the need to be the breadwinner once a family arrives. Each day, in difficult economica times the unending requirement to provide for the family exists. Many mothers want their partners to provide a high level of disposable income to provide for their child. While the Father toils daily without the contact and joy of their sibling the mother experiences the joy at all times.

And it is not an easy task being a father.

It's almost like watching a Feminists Unite meeting taking place.
Hyperbole massive. Not sure how this thread has you feeling insecure enough to turn a comment about pressure on women into a defensive comparison of how men experience pressure too.

As for men feeling pressured to be a breadwinner, it still doesn't change that women are increasingly having to do it all - work and the bulk of parenting and managing the home. In the UK, last I saw it's nearly half of mothers working full-time while in Switzerland, it's about equal between men and women.

Lol @ the mother experiencing the joy at all times. Again, see above for women who also have to work. Plus, it's not all joy being a parent. I know from friends and family that it's also messy and stressful and can even feel lonely at times.

I'm pregnant with my first child but plan to remain in full-time employment whilst my husband is a stay-at-home dad. I have enormous respect for women who are working full-time alongside their partners but still being the main parent and decision-maker in the home (especially single parents!). Quite frankly, I fear I couldn't do it. Huge kudos.
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