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Old 12.10.2011, 11:26
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Future sex offender or childhood prank?

That perhaps sounds a little extreme. But maybe if peculiar behavior was recognised earlier on, and something was done about it, a kid wouldn't get into trouble later on.

What happened was two neighbourhood boys (6 and 7) asked my 5-year-old girl to play. They had their trottis and I figured they were just going to ride them around a bit. Turns out they took her up to the woods where they had dug a hole and told her to pull down her pants and relieve herself in it. When she refused, one of them tried to pull down her pants. As she was wearing fairly snug fitting jeans, he wasn't able to. She apparently told the boys several times that she wanted to go home and according to her, they wouldn't let her leave. After how long, I do not know, she ran away and came home practically hysterical.

After talking to the parents, it turns out they tried the same thing last week with another girl.
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Old 12.10.2011, 11:32
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

well let's hope the boys get a firm but constructive and educational talking to, rather than being thrown to the authorities to get rubber stamped as sex offenders as i suspect might happen in the UK, even at this young age

[EDIT] and I made awful mistake of forgetting the victim...let's hope you are able to find a way to explain this to her so she can make some sense of it and not be too badly affected in her views of the world, but at the same time learn enough to protect herself in future

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Old 12.10.2011, 11:36
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

Were the parents cooperative? Sometimes parents virtually slam the door in your face.

I have 3 daughters and a son, and I find their behaviour is way past the normal limits. I think you are right to be concerned, I would be very worried indeed! Theses boys will be going to the same school as your daughter, and their opinions need to be corrected soon.

Maybe you could talk this over with the social worker at your village, they will know which resources to use, and have some legal powers to force an investigation. I don't think going to the police would do any good at all.
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Old 12.10.2011, 11:38
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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well let's hope the boys get a firm but constructive and educational talking to, rather than being thrown to the authorities to get rubber stamped as sex offenders as i suspect might happen in the UK, even at this young age
I would rather get a professional opinion than hope for a telling off.
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Old 12.10.2011, 11:49
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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I would rather get a professional opinion than hope for a telling off.
firstly, i don't believe what i wrote constitutes a 'telling off' which tends to be a fairly non-constructive approach...secondly, i understand your point about professional opinion, and I know that many would want that 'comfort' but i fear (at least in the UK) the authorities are not the most constructive option in the first instance...of course, if similar related behaviour continues after initial attempts to resolve, then you really have no choice...
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Old 12.10.2011, 11:50
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

I first went to one of the boys parents (the kid who my daughter said was the one who tried to pull her pants down) and he asked his son, who of course first denied it, then changed his mind and blamed his friend. The father said he'd talk to the other boy's parents. 20 minutes later the other boys mother came, dragging her son who was very upset and crying, to ask what had happened. She's taking it very seriously and feels although not her son's idea, he was still a part of it. She then told me about the same thing happening the week before.

So I didn't get the door slammed in my face, and both appear to be taking it seriously.

I don't think it's right to label kids. I think it's hard sometimes to tell the difference between potentially "dangerous" behavior and a one time strange idea that all kids sometimes have.
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Old 12.10.2011, 11:53
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

It sounds serious to me, going well beyond a normal prank.

I wouldn't just talk to the parents but also seek advice from the school or a social worker.
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Old 12.10.2011, 12:24
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

sounds more like a grave than a pee-pee hole to be honest. But at least the parents appear to be taking responsibility.

I've read the initial post a couple of times and it makes me worry.
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Old 12.10.2011, 12:42
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

Those kids are very young to be exhibiting that type of behaviour, IMO. While I understand that kids are curious about each other, what you describe goes beyond the "playing doctor" routine. Particularly concerning is the fact that they tried the same stunt with another child.

My understanding is that children that young who attempt sexual behaviours with other children are often victims of sexual assault themselves. I am not trying to jump to conclusions, but I think that further action past contacting the parents may be warranted.

I agree that labeling children is wrong, but in this case an early and serious intervention (meaning one that consists of more than just a punishment levied by the embarrassed parents) might make the difference for these kids. At bare minimum, some therapy is probably needed.
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:10
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

I've been thinking about it a lot, trying to decide if it's worth bringing up in a more formal situation (perhaps inviting the parents over and having my husband here for support!).
The fact that the boy did it twice makes me worry the most. I don't know what went on inside his/their head. If they actually discussed beforehand who to take up to the woods (which most likely is the case, since neither boy has ever come to play with my girl before) than it seems a lot more serious to me.
It's a bit difficult to approach the school, because one of the boys does not attend the local school and to my knowledge, it's the school that refers special cases to the right professionals (therapists).
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:22
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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My understanding is that children that young who attempt sexual behaviours with other children are often victims of sexual assault themselves. I am not trying to jump to conclusions, but I think that further action past contacting the parents may be warranted.
It is worrying but is it seen as sexual behaviour by a 6 or 7 year old? Perhaps that is what the parents need to focus on when talking to their kids, that even at this young age, no means no. Whether they tried to pull her pants down or not, she wanted to go home and they wouldn't let her leave. In the longer term I would hate for the focus to be on perceived sexual behaviour and not addressing the core problem.....she wanted them to stop and they didn't.

And of course reassuring the OP's daughter that she did the right thing to ask them to stop and to report what happened afterwards.
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:33
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

6 years old kids are capable of sexual offenses and rape as well. Medias showed us many exemples over the years.

Chris, I would be very worried as well. This is a very dangerous behavior. Now imagine if an other little girl doesn't have your daughter's luck. What would they do to her? Like you said, we don't know what is in their head and what was their plans...
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:38
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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I've been thinking about it a lot, trying to decide if it's worth bringing up in a more formal situation (perhaps inviting the parents over and having my husband here for support!).
The fact that the boy did it twice makes me worry the most. I don't know what went on inside his/their head. If they actually discussed beforehand who to take up to the woods (which most likely is the case, since neither boy has ever come to play with my girl before) than it seems a lot more serious to me.
It's a bit difficult to approach the school, because one of the boys does not attend the local school and to my knowledge, it's the school that refers special cases to the right professionals (therapists).
Speak to your daughter's teacher and voice your concerns. One of the boys goes to the local school so it is relevant.

And, schools are in communication with other schools.

Leaving out any possible sexual/sinister aspect of the case and you're still left with bullying so the school ought to be informed and the fact that it is a repeat episode means they ought to take it seriously.
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:38
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

The words you use show that it is not just the little girl who is traumatised, but you too. And rightly so. There is something of the end of the age of innocence for you and I think that you need to talk to somebody as well.

Whatever was in the mind of the boys is not your concern (you have reported it which is all you can do), but I think that talking to an expert who can talk to you and your daughter is important. And do it quickly
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:47
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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My understanding is that children that young who attempt sexual behaviours with other children are often victims of sexual assault themselves. I am not trying to jump to conclusions, but I think that further action past contacting the parents may be warranted.
Agree completely. Very sadly, this is often and unfortunately the case.

Good luck to the OP in handling this matter, especially regarding making sure that the child is no more traumatized than she already has been.
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:51
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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That perhaps sounds a little extreme.......snipped.....

What happened was two neighbourhood boys (6 and 7) asked my 5-year-old girl to play. she ran away and came home practically hysterical.

.
I think I have written my story somewhere else here on EF in a similar related incident ... but I repeat it, as related to this thread:

My grand-daughter, then about 7yrs old was virtually "abducted" along with her little friend, by 3 boys in their class, while leaving school, and forced to walk in opposite direction to their houses. They believed it was all in fun - until they came to a group of parked cars ...... the boys then tried to pull down their jeans, while making obscene gesticulations (learned from somewhere, obviously, and not really understanding what exactly they were doing?... considering their tender ages!) The girls put up a fight which attracted someone`s attention who then shouted out of their flat window at the boys.

The girls then ran home, arriving breathless and in tears.

I phoned their teacher, who came to the house, and took a "statement" from the girls.
Their father (my son) also wrote to the teacher, with a copy to the school Director at the Gemeinde - saying this behaviour will NOT be tolerated, in any form, as all the children have many years ahead of them, including school trips, and any future misbehaviours will directly involve the Polizei, and asked that the parents be advised of their sons misbehaviour.

The boys ... and the girls ... all had individual therapy with the school phsychologist ..... and the incident has never been repeated - actually everyone settled down very nicely, and those particular boys have become extremely well behaved since then.

There is so much weird behaviour being shown in media, I presume many children attempt to include it in their "play"? And they need to understand that in real life it is just not tolerated.

............................

Another aside here - maybe of interest? :

My older grandson, in Oberstuffe, was telling me how they amuse themselves at break-time at school ..... they "rough and tumble" each other, getting quite agressive and actually hurting each other. He claimed they all had so much "energy" (from being forced to sit all day in classes) they just had to rid themselves of it, by over-exerting themselves in this hooligan behaviour.

I explained to him that it may not affect some of the boys, but others may carry this over into their adult life, not being able to discern a weaker person not participating in their "fun" ..... and that this could become what we read about in the news where teenagers beat up helpless people, because they are bored and think its "fun". That they need to play strenuous games instead ... like football, volleyball, basketball, etc etc.

I realise I`m old fashioned and my advice sounds corny .. but he began to change his groups activities into just that ..... kicking a soccer ball around, instead of each other! So it was not as corny as it sounded to me!
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:52
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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It is worrying but is it seen as sexual behaviour by a 6 or 7 year old? Perhaps that is what the parents need to focus on when talking to their kids, that even at this young age, no means no. Whether they tried to pull her pants down or not, she wanted to go home and they wouldn't let her leave. In the longer term I would hate for the focus to be on perceived sexual behaviour and not addressing the core problem.....she wanted them to stop and they didn't.

And of course reassuring the OP's daughter that she did the right thing to ask them to stop and to report what happened afterwards.
Whether it can be categorized as "sexual" given their ages I guess is open to interpretation. What they had in mind, though, could properly be called "inappropriate" at one end of the spectrum and "evil" at the other. Certainly the boys' unwillingness to stop and let her go when she asked is wrong and could indicate that those boys are at risk of crossing the line into violent and/or deviant behaviour in the future.

I think it would be quite simple for the boys' parents, in the face of this situation, to call this (or these two) situations anomalies and tell themselves that their child is just acting out (maybe a bit more extremely) on the normal curiosities of childhood, since all parents love their children and want to think the best of them. Or, perhaps they do actually realize that there are underlying problems and are afraid to take the steps necessary to address those problems. In any case, I think that the OP having a word with someone other than the parents is warranted.

OP, maybe you could speak with your child's school counselor and tell him/her the story, merely asking for advice on the next step to take?

For sure, OP's daughter handled the situation very well for only being five.
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Old 12.10.2011, 13:54
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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I would rather get a professional opinion than hope for a telling off.

How about a spanking for those two boys? If my father had caught two boys behaving that way towards my sister, he'd have gone out there and drug them home to their parents himself. If I had ever behaved that way, I would not have been able to sit for quite some time...

Definitely not a childhood prank, and it is entirely in the hands of the parents whether these two boys potentially turn into sex offenders. I would not let my child play with these children again in an environment not supervised by someone I could trust.
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Old 12.10.2011, 14:07
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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How about a spanking for those two boys?
Definitely. Teach kids, who already have strange behaviour, that a bit of violence is what they need to get people to comply.
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Old 12.10.2011, 14:26
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Re: Future sex offender or childhood prank?

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Definitely. Teach kids, who already have strange behaviour, that a bit of violence is what they need to get people to comply.

Because spankings are assumed to be violent? Its a spanking, otherwise it would be called a beating. As someone who has experienced both, there IS a difference.

Properly administered corporal punishment can be an effective disciplinary tool. At younger ages children oftentimes do not understand complex causalities and rationales, irregardless of how simply adults try to explain these concepts; or, further they do not see how these concepts relate to themselves. However, children of this age DO understand the simple causality of "if I do this, I'll get my bottom spanked, and I don't like that, so I won't do this."
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