Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.02.2012, 04:56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 65
Groaned at 62 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 70 Times in 35 Posts
ISTJ has annoyed a few people around hereISTJ has annoyed a few people around here
Gender equality in Switzerland?

Hi, I was wondering what the gender equality is like in Switzerland? Are men treated and respected as equally as women?

I live in Australia, and in the past 10 - 20 years I feel that men are no longer treated with as much respect or importance as women. I feel this may be a result of some feminists going too far, by trying to "make up" for the past. Is this also the case in Switzerland, being a western culture?

Everything here seems to be geared in favour of women. Everything from medical research (especially breast cancer), support groups, shelters, social attitudes, child custody, and even the law. In the 90's, I felt the gender balance here was just about right, but after that it started swinging the other way.

Everywhere you look in Australia, there are products supporting women's health issues, particularly breast cancer. Everything from bottled water (with pink lids) to Tim Tams. Prostate cancer kills just as many men, but sadly you rarely ever see any support or awareness for this. There are also more support groups tailored to women only, including women's shelters. This could be part of the reason why most of the homeless on our streets are men. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I saw a homeless woman in Australia.

In regards to the family courts, most of the time the mother will be awarded custody of the children by default, even if the father would make a better parent. This has been an ongoing battle for many men in Australia going through a divorce, and some of them don't even get access to their kids very often. They usually lose their house, most of their assets, money and are left with nothing. Most of them usually have to start their life all over again from scratch.

In terms of the law, men seem to get much harsher punishments than women, especially relating to sex offences and violence. There have been a number of cases where a female teacher has had sexual relations with a student, and she gets let off with a slap on the wrist. When the gender roles are reversed, a man is often sent to prison for the same offence.

The same can be said for violence. In Australia we have these sexist ads that say "To violence against women, Australia says NO". Real life statistics show that violence against men (from women) is actually close to that of violence against women, it just hugely under reported. It would therefore be more appropriate to say "To violence against people, Australia says NO". By this omission alone, it is sending the message that men are always the perpetrators, and that it is acceptable for a woman to physically harm a man (but not the other way around). Just recently there was a local case of a woman who murdered her husband by drugging him and shooting him in the head. Did she get life in prison for murder? Nope, she got let off free by using the "battered wife syndrome" clause. No such "battered husband syndrome" clause exists for men.

Given some of these examples, it is no wonder that the suicide rates of men in Australia is four times greater than women. Many men here feel isolated, alone, and have no where to go for help. They feel as though they aren't respected or treated fairly.

Sorry to ramble, I just wanted to provide some examples of how things are in Australia. I am wondering if Switzerland is much the same, or are things more equal for men and women? One thing that does bother me is the compulsory military service for men, but not for women. Why is this?

Please note that I do not hate women (this is a common assumption when a man talks about equality)... I do love them but I just wish men were treated equally and respected more in Australia. I am hoping things are different in Switzerland.

Last edited by ISTJ; 11.02.2012 at 06:13.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11.02.2012, 06:45
Falconer's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 159
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 209 Times in 82 Posts
Falconer has earned the respect of manyFalconer has earned the respect of manyFalconer has earned the respect of many
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Sure, it's kinda the same here, and probably in every other Western country as well. But what makes you think this demonstrates a superior position of women in society? In my opinion this is rather patronizing behavior towards women, if anything. Women get lesser punishment because they're not taken as serious in their actions as men. Military service is not compulsory for women because they are seen as helpless creatures (in former times even property) who have to be protected by male warriors. That women will be awarded custody of the children almost by default, stems from their traditional role as housewife. It's not a "feminist-forced reparation for centuries of oppression" or something like that.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11.02.2012, 06:59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 65
Groaned at 62 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 70 Times in 35 Posts
ISTJ has annoyed a few people around hereISTJ has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Sure, it's kinda the same here, and probably in every other Western country as well. But what makes you think this demonstrates a superior position of women in society?
Generally in western cultures men are seen as "evil" by default until they prove themselves otherwise. Whereas women are still thought of as innocent helpless creatures capable of no wrong doing, until proven otherwise.

Here is an example. Sometimes the female toilets will have a long queue, and women will just walk straight into the male toilets because they don't want to wait. No-one blinks an eye or cares. Now, if a male were to walk into female toilets, he'd probably last a few seconds before one of them calls the police and has him arrested.

It really is a shame that men are looked upon as "evil" by default. It sounds like its the same in all western countries
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11.02.2012, 08:04
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,169
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,437 Times in 1,074 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Good morning ISTJ, and welcome to the forum.

It is nice to see another Australian interested in Switzerland. Any particular reason? Are you thinking of moving? Swiss roots?

You will be please to note that although there may be the outward appearance of some resemblance toward "equality", whatever that might mean, the school system still requires one party of any male-female relationship, should they decide to start breeding, to stay at home.
Due to a variety of factors, including that in some jobs, men get paid more than women (because they have a family to support- a circular argument) it is usually the woman who then ends up unemployable, due to the years out of the workforce, as someone has to stay home to greet and feed the children during their lunch break, and irregular school hours.

In other aspects, such as suitable role models for boys, the Swiss system is truly lacking. There is usually no more than 1 male childcare worker, in a pre-school environment, such as a cresh, if any at all. Even though there is an equal distribution of male and female children. Granted, this is a vast improvement on past situations. The wheels of change turn slowly.

Male kindergarten teachers, and primary school teachers, are practically unheard of- which i feel will reflect badly on future generations, especially for those who have no adequate male role models in the home.

Only when you get to a higher level of secondary school, do you see any male influence. At this stage, it is likely that ideals are already formed, and boys may be de-masculanated due to the high female influence. How can they be equal if they are not allowed to be men?

Can equality really ever happen? Men and women think so differently, if they even think at all?
Or what is your opinion of what equality actually is?
__________________
11. Knowing deep down that you gave your dreams a fair chance. – Most of the time the only difference between a dream that came true and one that didn’t, is a person who wouldn’t give up and one who did.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11.02.2012, 08:27
Falconer's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 159
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 209 Times in 82 Posts
Falconer has earned the respect of manyFalconer has earned the respect of manyFalconer has earned the respect of many
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Whereas women are still thought of as innocent helpless creatures capable of no wrong doing, until proven otherwise.
And how can this possibly be a feminist achievement?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11.02.2012, 08:30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 65
Groaned at 62 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 70 Times in 35 Posts
ISTJ has annoyed a few people around hereISTJ has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Thanks for your info Rangatiranui.

Yes, I am considering moving to Switzerland as I have swiss citizenship. So just trying to find out as much as possible and compare things to Australia (especially things that bother me here).

In regards to men getting paid more than women... this is often because men choose higher paying jobs. In Australia there is a big thing going on about women being paid less than men. I personally think this is a myth skewed by statistics and compared between different jobs. What they are doing is comparing two completely different jobs (or experience levels in the same job) and saying that they get paid less than men. Recently the australian government gave a pay rise to certain female dominated industries such as childcare and office admin workers, just so it would bump up the overall stats of the "gender divide". This is basically like paying a janitor more, just so they can say they are paid equally to doctors (an extreme case, but you get my point). I believe that all women can be paid as much as men if they choose to, it just depends on their career choice.

I also agree with what you said about the lack of male kindergarten and primary school teachers. From speaking with other men, many of them say they are afraid to do it, because it is very easy for a male to be wrongly accused of pedophilia. All someone has to do is spread a false rumour, and the man could lose his job, reputation, and be dragged through the courts. Unfortunately, this is another area where men are seen as "evil", especially with jobs involving children.

You are right, true equality will never be 100% attainable, but it can be improved. I believe it was pretty close in the 90's, but since then it has gone the other way. Perhaps if it keeps going this way there may be a masculinist movement of some kind in the future?

Last edited by ISTJ; 11.02.2012 at 08:41.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11.02.2012, 08:44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Birmensdorf ZH, ex-Lausanne
Posts: 415
Groaned at 15 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 403 Times in 182 Posts
NicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

One of the key indicators in a post-feminist society about how well its women are doing is the gender pay gap, and as far as google is telling me, women don't earn more than men in Australia. Another key indicator is the presence of women in senior management. There as well, they are not in the majority in Australia. Finally, in Australian politics, women only make up roughly a third of elected officials at the federal level. If this were a society that favored women in terms of public policy, surely the percentage would be over 50%.

So please, tell me, how exactly has the balance shifted in Australia to where women are running the show? They aren't in business, they aren't in politics.

With the pinkwashing (breast cancer this, breast cancer that), you are mixing up your stories- it isn't related to women at all, but rather, as in all capitalist societies, the almighty dollar.

Your weak, sexist arguement does have one tiny spindly leg to stand on as far as fathers' rights. Custody arrangements have a long way to go towards equality, but things are progressing in the right direction, which isn't the case for women's salaries or access to management and board positions in business or senior positions in politics.

While it could be argued that Switzerland must have a great situation for women with a close to half of its national counsellors and, for a time, a moajority of women on its Federal Council, this too, like the pink washing is due to someting unrelated: the structure of the Swiss political system, namely direct democracy. Swiss women still don't have the same access to management as men or the same career possibilites, due in part to what Rangatiranui said, the society is modeled around the fact that one person stays home when children are born and for equal pay reasons it is usually the mother.

In fact, I'm frustrated with the fact that with all these women in positions of power, we still have yet to see family-friendly policies (creche and krippe funding), longer maternity (or paternity, why not!) leave, stricter control of salary gaps and the like. So, ISTJ, you may find that despite its female-ran politics, Swtitzerland is still a "male-friendly" country to be in where you can be rocked in the gentle arms of your patriarchy.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11.02.2012, 08:45
Kristanez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Home and native land
Posts: 601
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 589 Times in 252 Posts
Kristanez has a reputation beyond reputeKristanez has a reputation beyond reputeKristanez has a reputation beyond reputeKristanez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

When power is unequal, and shifts are made to begin equalizing it, it means the privileged group will start to lose some of its privileges. Then the privileged group which was (usually) blind to its privilege in the first place, starts to feel disgruntled about these losses and may backlash.

I have heard a lot of similar "discussion points" to the OP's from a specific set of men (men who have been abusive and lost their families in the court system). There is too much research sadly still saying otherwise for to me really engage in this discussion, but I think where I stand on this issue is probably clear.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:06
little_isabella's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,095
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,387 Times in 550 Posts
little_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

You're spot on about breast cancer and this isn't something exclusive to Australia. There's an interesting book that seeks to explain the media's bias toward breast cancer coverage but I'm forgetting the title right now.

But let's just say that it's been argued that this isn't gender inequality that favors women - it favors men due to the intense sexualization of breasts.

I personally think it's more complicated than that but it's something to think about.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:06
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 65
Groaned at 62 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 70 Times in 35 Posts
ISTJ has annoyed a few people around hereISTJ has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

I love it how when a man talks about gender equality, everyone seems to think he's a "woman hater", or has some problem with women... this is evident by the number of "groans" in this thread.

Yet when a woman talks about gender equality and feminism, I bet she'd get heaps of "thanks".

Interesting eh?

Anyway I didn't want to start a debate, I was really just trying to get a feel for the gender equality in Switzerland. No need for harsh comments guys, I think i'll be staying out of this one now. Its sad when a man can't voice his opinions on gender equality I guess that is part of the problem, men aren't really listened to on these matters.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:19
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your info Rangatiranui.

Yes, I am considering moving to Switzerland as I have swiss citizenship. So just trying to find out as much as possible and compare things to Australia (especially things that bother me here).

In regards to men getting paid more than women... this is often because men choose higher paying jobs. This is not true In Australia there is a big thing going on about women being paid less than men. I personally think this is a myth skewed by statistics and compared between different jobs. And i think you are kidding yourself here. You refuse to see the reality. When jobs are compared, they used same qualifications and experiences for the same positions compared between genders. What they are doing is comparing two completely different jobs (or experience levels in the same job) and saying that they get paid less than men. Really? Please prove it, where is your links who explains such a thing? Recently the australian government gave a pay rise to certain female dominated industries such as childcare and office admin workers, just so it would bump up the overall stats of the "gender divide". This is basically like paying a janitor more, just so they can say they are paid equally to doctors (an extreme case, but you get my point). I believe that all women can be paid as much as men if they choose to, sadly the situation is not about choosing to but having the rights for it just depends on their career choice. ()

I also agree with what you said about the lack of male kindergarten and primary school teachers. From speaking with other men, many of them say they are afraid to do it, because it is very easy for a male to be wrongly accused of pedophilia. All someone has to do is spread a false rumour, and the man could lose his job, reputation, and be dragged through the courts. Unfortunately, this is another area where men are seen as "evil", especially with jobs involving children.

You are right, true equality will never be 100% attainable, but it can be improved. I believe it was pretty close in the 90's, but since then it has gone the other way. Perhaps if it keeps going this way there may be a masculinist movement of some kind in the future?
It has nothing to do with a man talking about equality but about a man who has no idea what really is equality!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:22
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 2,362
Groaned at 24 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,426 Times in 1,164 Posts
biff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond reputebiff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for your info Rangatiranui.

Recently the australian government gave a pay rise to certain female dominated industries such as childcare and office admin workers, just so it would bump up the overall stats of the "gender divide". ....

I also agree with what you said about the lack of male kindergarten and primary school teachers. From speaking with other men, many of them say they are afraid to do it, because it is very easy for a male to be wrongly accused of pedophilia. All someone has to do is spread a false rumour, and the man could lose his job, reputation, and be dragged through the courts. Unfortunately, this is another area where men are seen as "evil", especially with jobs involving children.
From what I have experienced (including being a member of a Teachers Training selection committee) men do not want to work with young children for totally different reasons. Generally, they are more focused on the salary ( traditionally poor in EY education) and an upward career path, including the perceived status of that. They also sometimes/often appear to be less interested in children as such, and more focused on teaching a subject of interest, thus are more likely to choose high school teaching, rather than primary.

Yes, it would be nice to have an equal ratio of male to female colleagues, but personally I have not been aware of any "demasculinating" of any boys who have gone through the system with mostly female teachers.

In fact, most good teachers, whatever their gender, are striving to teach values and attitudes that are centred around developing traits such as respect, tolerence, understanding, self confidence, the abilty to adapt, to develop an inquiring mind, to reason etc in the students they are educating. None of these traits are gender specific and none of them take away from ones personal femininity or masculinity.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Birmensdorf ZH, ex-Lausanne
Posts: 415
Groaned at 15 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 403 Times in 182 Posts
NicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond reputeNicoleCZ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I love it how when a man talks about gender equality, everyone seems to think he's a "woman hater", or has some problem with women... this is evident by the number of "groans" in this thread.
I don't think you are a woman hater, I think you are an ignorant troll with a poor grasp of gender realities. There is a difference between malice and ignorance. I groan at you for your ignorance.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:30
little_isabella's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,095
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,387 Times in 550 Posts
little_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond reputelittle_isabella has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I love it how when a man talks about gender equality, everyone seems to think he's a "woman hater", or has some problem with women... this is evident by the number of "groans" in this thread.
I don't think the groans are for talking about gender equality. I think the groans are for a convincing lack of evidence of all (and it's a lot) that he's claiming is inequality toward men.

Quote:
Yet when a woman talks about gender equality and feminism, I bet she'd get heaps of "thanks".

Interesting eh?

Anyway I didn't want to start a debate, I was really just trying to get a feel for the gender equality in Switzerland. No need for harsh comments guys, I think i'll be staying out of this one now. Its sad when a man can't voice his opinions on gender equality I guess that is part of the problem, men aren't really listened to on these matters.
I see what you're saying and I can imagine the frustration. You have to look at it from a systemic point-of-view though and you also have to consider the roots of what appears to be inequality that favors women.

For instance, it's not news that blacks have been treated horrifically throughout history. But today we hear about racism toward whites with instances such as Mugabe's rampage against the white farmers. Yet if we look at how and why these farmers had the means in the first place it was due to their privileged position, which consequently, stems from systemic racism toward blacks.

To elaborate more on the breast cancer issue - well it's not even the top cancer killer for women. How do you explain that? Again, it's suggested that the oversexualization of breasts makes this part so deeply coveted by men and the media.

To touch on a couple more of your points, I only hope you dig a little deeper before coming to conclusions about gender inequality. For example, the suicide rate for men is higher in most places. But far more women try to commit suicide, including in Australia (http://www.responseability.org/site/...display=134569). It's just that they don't tend to use such deadly means as men do. Where women are more likely to take pills, men are more likely to use a gun. Men are better at it, so to speak. You will see women's shelters because the fact is that women are more likely to be physically abused than men - by far. They are more likely to be the sole parent and will attend shelters with their children. They are also at risk of going into prostitution or if they already are prostitutes, suffering from violence and disease relating to their work. This requires specialized support.

Again, you have every right to feel how you do. But please try to keep some perspective.

Last edited by little_isabella; 11.02.2012 at 10:17. Reason: Adding a link.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:36
Golfprostew's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Egg
Posts: 263
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 182 Times in 100 Posts
Golfprostew has earned the respect of manyGolfprostew has earned the respect of manyGolfprostew has earned the respect of many
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think you are a woman hater, I think you are an ignorant troll with a poor grasp of gender realities. There is a difference between malice and ignorance. I groan at you for your ignorance.
Amen to that Nicole!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:43
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,986
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

mysteriously, despite having to fight upstream all our lives against the current of affirmative action, women's rights, civil rights, gay, lesbian and transgendered rights, disabled persons' rights, etc., we white dudes seem to be doing alright for ourselves. sit in any meeting room in the western world, particularly at the C-level, and tell me that you see it any differently. if the goal of all those programs was to discriminate against white men, they are candidly being less than effective.

I guess I'm not really sure what your beef might be.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11.02.2012, 09:59
ullainga's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: around Basel
Posts: 1,583
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,189 Times in 911 Posts
ullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond reputeullainga has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Anyway I didn't want to start a debate, I was really just trying to get a feel for the gender equality in Switzerland. .
Oh you will love it here. I would especially recommend settling in Appenzell Innerrhoden - Supreme Court had to explain to that canton, that contrary to their opinion, women are in fact people and citizens too. That happened in 1990. Sounds like you will fit right in there and would have many enjoyable evenings discussing the good old days when women still knew their place.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11.02.2012, 10:02
cdcdoc's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Fehraltorf / ZH
Posts: 840
Groaned at 26 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 848 Times in 423 Posts
cdcdoc has a reputation beyond reputecdcdoc has a reputation beyond reputecdcdoc has a reputation beyond reputecdcdoc has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

From what I have been googleing, there are issues with men in Australia especially when it comes to the suicide rate but to point to women for this is dumb! I think that you are on the wrong path. From your post it is like in Australia men are becoming slaves and the women are queens! Than, Switzerland, unfortunately, is the place for you...at least in some kantons or places.
You do realize that this discussion is not going to end but it is actually the attitude, the facts. And so far women here on the forum kicked your...
So if more men commit suicide in Australia is not because of women! Here is what a piece of a study says:


"Murphy believes women are less inclined to commit suicide because their thinking is more inclusive. While a man might tend to throw aside seemingly peripheral issues to get to the core of a problem, a woman might take more things into account. She may continue to seek input and process problems long after the point where men decide on a course of action.
"She'll consider not just her feelings but also the feelings of others -- her family, the children, even acquaintances, and how those people will be affected by a decision like suicide," Murphy says. "A man is much less likely to take those things into account. He makes his decision, and it's about him, so he doesn't feel the need to share it with anyone else."
But before they ever get to the point of considering suicide, Murphy says, women are much more likely to seek help with their problems. The classic example is asking for directions when driving. Many men refuse to do that, perhaps seeing it as an admission of weakness. They believe they are supposed to be competent in all areas. Because they are not, they are at risk. Women, on the other hand, are much more likely to seek advice and take it."


So it is probably because we are...men?!?


And Nicole...good job!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11.02.2012, 14:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: zürich
Posts: 3,191
Groaned at 105 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,948 Times in 1,620 Posts
i-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

I love it. You down-under machos have been getting a bit of your own back for a mere 10 or 20 years and you're whinging like a sheila already. Suck it up mate, and show us yer t1ts.

Quote:
View Post
Hi, I was wondering what the gender equality is like in Switzerland? Are men treated and respected as equally as women?

I live in Australia, and in the past 10 - 20 years I feel that men are no longer treated with as much respect or importance as women. I feel this may be a result of some feminists going too far, by trying to "make up" for the past. Is this also the case in Switzerland, being a western culture?

Everything here seems to be geared in favour of women. Everything from medical research (especially breast cancer), support groups, shelters, social attitudes, child custody, and even the law. In the 90's, I felt the gender balance here was just about right, but after that it started swinging the other way.

Everywhere you look in Australia, there are products supporting women's health issues, particularly breast cancer. Everything from bottled water (with pink lids) to Tim Tams. Prostate cancer kills just as many men, but sadly you rarely ever see any support or awareness for this. There are also more support groups tailored to women only, including women's shelters. This could be part of the reason why most of the homeless on our streets are men. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I saw a homeless woman in Australia.

In regards to the family courts, most of the time the mother will be awarded custody of the children by default, even if the father would make a better parent. This has been an ongoing battle for many men in Australia going through a divorce, and some of them don't even get access to their kids very often. They usually lose their house, most of their assets, money and are left with nothing. Most of them usually have to start their life all over again from scratch.

In terms of the law, men seem to get much harsher punishments than women, especially relating to sex offences and violence. There have been a number of cases where a female teacher has had sexual relations with a student, and she gets let off with a slap on the wrist. When the gender roles are reversed, a man is often sent to prison for the same offence.

The same can be said for violence. In Australia we have these sexist ads that say "To violence against women, Australia says NO". Real life statistics show that violence against men (from women) is actually close to that of violence against women, it just hugely under reported. It would therefore be more appropriate to say "To violence against people, Australia says NO". By this omission alone, it is sending the message that men are always the perpetrators, and that it is acceptable for a woman to physically harm a man (but not the other way around). Just recently there was a local case of a woman who murdered her husband by drugging him and shooting him in the head. Did she get life in prison for murder? Nope, she got let off free by using the "battered wife syndrome" clause. No such "battered husband syndrome" clause exists for men.

Given some of these examples, it is no wonder that the suicide rates of men in Australia is four times greater than women. Many men here feel isolated, alone, and have no where to go for help. They feel as though they aren't respected or treated fairly.

Sorry to ramble, I just wanted to provide some examples of how things are in Australia. I am wondering if Switzerland is much the same, or are things more equal for men and women? One thing that does bother me is the compulsory military service for men, but not for women. Why is this?

Please note that I do not hate women (this is a common assumption when a man talks about equality)... I do love them but I just wish men were treated equally and respected more in Australia. I am hoping things are different in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11.02.2012, 15:03
silverburn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Unterageri
Posts: 825
Groaned at 37 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 833 Times in 343 Posts
silverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond reputesilverburn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gender equality in Switzerland?

Equality is great. When I rule the world by totalitarian dictatorship, my rules will be as follows:

Women must play the full 5 sets at Wimbledon if they want equality. Same rule applies to all racquet sports, the Tour de France, golf tees etc. Or the vice versa rule applies - the men are allowed to play 3 sets or from the woman's tees.

Men must endure childbirth and perform breast feeding for 50% of the children born. Oh wait... They can't. So for equality's sake, women should stop having children.

Men should be allowed to wear dresses, makeup and suspenders as office attire. If this cannot be achieved, everyone must wear the same unisex grey prison uniforms. Since bras are useless to all but the fastest of men, all bras shoud be banned.

I could go on, but hopefully I've demonstrated that absolute equality is unachievable, and that my sense of humour is only got by some. Naturally I shall be groaned at anyway.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Equality... does it exist?? borntough Daily life 108 13.06.2013 18:31
Gender roles in Switzerland JulesMng Complaints corner 161 11.07.2011 23:54
a silly gender issue about fasnacht psychodelicate Daily life 19 25.02.2010 18:04
Is specifying race and gender in a flatshare ad discriminatory? Guest General off-topic 92 11.01.2010 11:13
Gender Gap Nev Other/general 101 07.08.2009 10:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0