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  #101  
Old 02.03.2012, 20:36
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

BonBon, get thee off to sickipedia, then you can enjoy all the base and sick jokes you could ever want amongst people who share the same sense of humour.

Not everybody here will share your sense of humour, and there's no reason why they should. Sure, everybody enjoys a good joke, but there are times when it's getting too close to the bone that you could potentially offend people. Just remember this forum is not your's or anybody else's personal comedy stage.
  #102  
Old 02.03.2012, 20:55
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

..... And another victory for Cultural Marxism.
  #103  
Old 02.03.2012, 21:03
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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BonBon, get thee off to sickipedia, then you can enjoy all the base and sick jokes you could ever want amongst people who share the same sense of humour.

Not everybody here will share your sense of humour, and there's no reason why they should. Sure, everybody enjoys a good joke, but there are times when it's getting too close to the bone that you could potentially offend people. Just remember this forum is not your's or anybody else's personal comedy stage.

I believe that the majority of jokes are at the expense of someone. Since that person is generally not gonna be too happy about being at the centre of a joke, he will be expected to be offended by it. According to what has been said so far ITT, once you know that someone will be offended upon hearing a particular joke, you should not make that joke on EF. Ergo, the majority of jokes are not allowed on EF.

QED

Thank you very much. Have a nice evening.

P.S.: EF is an open forum. Not a dictatorship! Stop being too serious about it! Life is short, allow yourself a laugh from time to time
  #104  
Old 02.03.2012, 21:24
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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Oh, and here's another excellent link:

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.c...for-dudes.html
That is an excellent link, exactly what I was trying to say. Everyone please go read it. Enough has been said about the merits of offensive humour. This is about the practical effects of rape jokes. Rape jokes encourage rapists to rape.
  #105  
Old 02.03.2012, 21:29
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

I have a black sense of humour, but I don't share it with just anyone. I also feel that it is ok to laugh/joke about stuff when those that the joke is on are happy to laugh about it themselves. I've lost friends to cancer / know people who survived it - they made / make jokes about cancer and being a cancer survivor is generally not awkward, indeed, people tend to admire you. I know more fat people jokes than most and usually make jokes about being fat myself. Blonde jokes, same thing. Necrophilia jokes can be disgusting but the person in question is dead, it won't affect their future happiness if something weird happens to them. Sure, I'd rather not have my body messed with when dead but I won't really care, will I? And so on. A few points about all those things: a) those affected laugh themselves or can no longer care, b) the room does not fall awkwardly silent when someone says they have cancer/are fat/Jewish/a blonde - whatever and c) people will not make you feel like something that really isn't your fault actually is.

I know victims of sexual abuse - there are so many that it is frightening, you wonder who all the perpetrators are. None of them can find anything humorous about what happened to them, many feeling like this thing that has come to ruin their lives is their fault. Nightmares, failed relationships, addiction problems, suicide attempts, a host of psychosomatic illnesses and not being able to tell people why you are so weird - it's a lonely world. I've lost two friends to the aftermath of sexual abuse - their lives just never became whole again and they ended them. The perpetrators carry on with their lives unchanged, as hardly any of them are brought to justice - and they know that.

So when you are next having a lads' night out and the rape jokes start, think about the victim numbers and look at the men laughing around you - if one in four/five women (the numbers vary from study to study) and one in ten men have been a victim of sexual assault/abuse, then which of your buddies isn't just joking?
  #106  
Old 02.03.2012, 21:41
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

I would leave EF out of it, it's a phenomenon that exist everywhere..

I personally think we attribute too much to words. We automatically link them to generic or perceived, negative intentions. And that's what I see could be adding up friction and misunderstanding and it hurts comunication..

Tact is always needed, common sense, anytime people communicate, online or offline.

I see Kamarate's point. People who know me and what I have been through, know I can take stupid pokes at blind people, blondes, raped naive Eastern Europeans, Jews, you name it, whatever somehow points my direction..I am not worried about myself being offended, maybe growing up with guys and being surrounded by crazy artists and mostly male musicians gives one tough skin. I treat friends the same way.

But when people throw weirdness directed at other people who might not be able to defend themselves, it all kinda becomes a cheap shot I don't like..

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If you or someone you loved was raped, would you want to hear someone else laughing about rape? Or would you feel re-victimized?
No.

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I have an issue with the premise here. Some posters seem to think that the worst thing that could come of a rape joke is that someone could be offended. That's not it at all. You're contributing to a rape culture.
I don't believe there is a rape culture. I kinda see that as pop psychology.

I don't also believe it would be only anti chick. Men get raped too. It's like people get slapped, knived, etc..It's not a gender issue, me thinks. It's not just guys who use rough lingo and laugh. Most people I know who use strong words would never even think of hurting anyone, and I think that gives them the comfort and guts to actualy speak like that. Knowing their friends know them, and the absurdity and discrepancy is actually part of the joke.

I think our culture might be over policing..

Saying "Gah, I am gonna kill you.." coz somebody forgot to put shoes away and I tripped over them, does not contribute into a murder culture.

I can easily say to my friend "Easy, easy, don't kill yourself" in some situ despite the fact my best friend killed himself..It does not contribute to a suicide culture.

I think being sensitive is important, but I also think that expecting that all people police themselves to an extreme, at all times, for whoever is out there, is a bit too much and can harm communication. Hearing things that people are not saying does.
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  #107  
Old 02.03.2012, 22:23
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

Can I just clarify Music Chick, did you find that my question was a cheap shot or throwing weirdness, or am I misinterpreting what you wrote just based on placement of you quoting me?

Also, were you saying no, I wouldn't want to hear it, or no I would not feel re-victimized?
  #108  
Old 02.03.2012, 22:32
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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I don't believe there is a rape culture. I kinda see that as pop psychology.

I don't also believe it would be only anti chick. Men get raped too. It's like people get slapped, knived, etc..It's not a gender issue, me thinks.
Fact: 9 out of 10 victims of rape are women.

It *IS* a gender issue. Please read those links above. They are very informative.

And here's one of many sources of statistics freely available on the internet. Because just because you don't think so, or don't believe so, doesn't mean it isn't true.

http://www.rainn.org/get-information...ssault-victims
  #109  
Old 02.03.2012, 22:34
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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Can I just clarify Music Chick, did you find that my question was a cheap shot or throwing weirdness, or am I misinterpreting what you wrote just based on placement of you quoting me?
No, it wasn't a cheap shot at all, I was saying that while I can take it, others might be offended, naturally, by some cheap shot, rape reference made by others.

But, I was also saying, I hold chicks and folks who were raped in high esteem, who can deffend themselves, and same as me, don't need to become purist, and request the whole population to change the way they talk, or those trendy kids who play games, or whatever, to change their lingo for their sake..neither. I think people will use taboo, whatever it is, in humor. Always.

Again, this is a personal view, based on experience, not a forum mod stance on policy here.

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Also, were you saying no, I wouldn't want to hear it, or no I would not feel re-victimized?
I wouldn't want to hear a rape joke, told by a rapist. Or, a rape joke said by somebody explicitely promoting rape as some fun. But if somebody wins say in a chess game over me and says "Hee, I just raped your buttock" I wouldn't certainly feel re-victimized. I think that person would not be talking about the same context of rape some people are talking in this thread.

I think being aware is a good thing, while not understanding how taboo function in bad jokes, and requesting purism at all times, isn't necessarily conducive to communication.
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  #110  
Old 02.03.2012, 22:37
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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I believe that the majority of jokes are at the expense of someone. Since that person is generally not gonna be too happy about being at the centre of a joke, he will be expected to be offended by it. According to what has been said so far ITT, once you know that someone will be offended upon hearing a particular joke, you should not make that joke on EF. Ergo, the majority of jokes are not allowed on EF.

QED

Thank you very much. Have a nice evening.

P.S.: EF is an open forum. Not a dictatorship! Stop being too serious about it! Life is short, allow yourself a laugh from time to time
You just don't get it, do you Krash? These jokes are not banned here, but should be in the Joke thread, where they will not be thrown at unsuspecting people. I rarely post there as my favourite jokes could offend and be misconstrued. We should all have enough common sense and sensibility, and know our audience.


Excellent post Kittster, thanks.

Last edited by Odile; 02.03.2012 at 22:54.
  #111  
Old 02.03.2012, 22:55
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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I think being sensitive is important, but I also think that expecting that all people police themselves to an extreme, at all times, for whoever is out there, is a bit too much and can harm communication. Hearing things that people are not saying does.
Here, again, is a reference to just one joke that has popped out recently here in EF:
Fourth Date ...end of the Road?

How is a photograph of a man kissing a woman on the date, the woman apparently delighted, with the caption "Win her over....with Chloroform"...not a joke about a man getting a woman into bed in a state where she is unable to give her consent? In other words...a joke about rape?

How is a joke about "winning someone over" (into liking the man, presumably), in an impaired state ("with Chloroform"), and the woman pictured as all smiles...not a joke about someone having their body violated (via a drug)...and "liking it"?

No, we don't hear what people aren't saying...we are seeing what people are saying. And it is not funny.

Not to mention this one, also posted recently on *this very thread*, that the OP started precisely to make the point that RAPE JOKES ARE NOT FUNNY.

"What's black and blue and hates sex...a rape victim." No, we're not hearing things that aren't there. We're seeing things that ARE there. The poster who posted this joke said it was uttered in front of an actual *rape victim*, and then went on to say that the resulting situation was "rather awkward".

Talk about trivializing, accepting, legitimizing rape. Rape is horrifying, even as a concept. It is much, much more than "rather awkward". But of course, that doesn't matter, right? So long as you in EF get your good laughs.

Read on the internet, what distinguishes a rapist from someone else. A rapist doesn't stop on "no". A rapist cares more about his own enjoyment rather than the one of his victim. The joker who jokes about rape in a forum where statistically 1 in 6 female members and 1 in 33 male members will have been, are being, or will be raped in their lifetimes and continues joking after being told to stop cares more about his/her 30 second's worth of laugh than the distress of real rape victims and victim supporters. This is what a rape culture is.

You don't have to commit rape yourself to live in, or approve of, or participate in...a rape culture.

Peoplez. Inform yourselves, think, and see if your beliefs need adjusting. Your sister, mother, daughters, coworkers, and friends will thank you, and you will also thank yourself for growing into a more integral human being that does not condone making light of other people's suffering from a position of entitlement or privilege.
  #112  
Old 02.03.2012, 23:03
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

Having the freedom of speech comes with responsability. And part of that responsability is to know and recognize when it is better to not say something.
  #113  
Old 02.03.2012, 23:19
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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You just don't get it, do you Krash? These jokes are not banned here, but should be in the Joke thread, where they will not be thrown at unsuspecting people.
I argue that, since they are not jokes, they do NOT belong in the joke thread. When reading jokes I expect to be entertained, sometimes a little shocked, sometimes disgusted but not not in a way that harms my mental well-being. Someone posted a joke about child abuse way back when, I called them up on it, their reaction was that I didn't have a sense of humour. What exactly is funny about child abuse? Again, I've yet to meet a victim of it that made a joke about it. The only instance where I could see anything like that being a joke is if it takes an unexpected twist that makes what would have been the abuser into the victim and the would-be victim the one with the upper hand.

To be honest, I'm almost glad so many people completely fail to understand where the harm is - they must all be people who have not had first hand experience with this sort of thing.
  #114  
Old 02.03.2012, 23:19
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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Having the freedom of speech comes with responsability. And part of that responsability is to know and recognize when it is better to not say something.
This is very true.

What I meant is not promoting rape, or, saying it don't matter.

I was pointing out, humor works certain way. It's blah, then it turns wrong and funny, then it wears off and becomes blah. There is always, always a moment of inappropriacy. While I would hate to have some ugly rape references made in presence of somebody who hasn't digested and made peace with their experiences (and I agree, it is a huge issue that needs addressing, both for women and men), when we think about discriminating and racist terms, for example, they have been quite successfully erased from our vocab. The words itself, "discrimination" hasn't. Since, it is what it is, a word that refers to an act of something. The ugly N word has, thankgod. But people do use stupid "I ain't discriminatin", don't they, when they want to say they are easy going about something. People will use the word "rape" for fun, even though they don't rape nor agree with it. I think linking using this word and actually promoting rape, is taking it too far. Or, being mad at folks who use it that way..duno.

I have this joke with my friends, we call people wenches at times. It's horrid and inappropriate, but, it makes us laugh. None of us are disrespectful people, women matter to me, I have high (maybe too high, heh) opinion of women, yet, it's our internal joke. Also the fact we call everyone a wench, too. I don't think we are promoting sexism, or, some kind of stereotypes. We are just making ourselves laugh, coz it is so absurd and we know the way we are with words.
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  #115  
Old 02.03.2012, 23:28
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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While I would hate to have some ugly rape references made in presence of somebody who hasn't digested and made peace with their experiences (and I agree, it is a huge issue that needs addressing, both for women and men)...
That's the problem. It never goes away, just changes, stops being quite so raw, but it's always there, like a line has been drawn. Until here - your life how it could have been, after here - what your life has become. Some people manage to draw great strength from such experiences. Most people don't. And for those who didn't, jokes about what has messed up their lives will ALWAYS be a slap in the face.
  #116  
Old 02.03.2012, 23:40
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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That's the problem. It never goes away, just changes, stops being quite so raw, but it's always there, like a line has been drawn. Until here - your life how it could have been, after here - what your life has become. Some people manage to draw great strength from such experiences. Most people don't. And for those who didn't, jokes about what has messed up their lives will ALWAYS be a slap in the face.
I so know. Like anything negative in life, though...c'est la vie. I know, it's cruel, but life really is. Death is bad, too, murders, etc., we are not erasing those words from our vocab eventhough the prisons are packed with murderers.

I know the stigma. But stigma can be caused by absolutely anything. People will be sick enough to make jokes about the meanest human condition..

I think changing society by pushing the rules of humor out of people..not so sure about it. Language is an animal of its own sort. I think trying to change the way humor is made is more difficult than growing thicker skin and processing things correctly and deeply and for good. But that's just a personal, pragmatic musings over this. Tact is always a good thing to have in mind in these situations. The safest bet.
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  #117  
Old 02.03.2012, 23:48
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

The big problem is the guilt issue - victims of sexual violence are frequently made to feel like it was their fault or that it "wasn't so bad". To make a joke reinforces those feelings and invalidates the victims' rightful sense of trauma.
  #118  
Old 02.03.2012, 23:52
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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The big problem is the guilt issue - victims of sexual violence are frequently made to feel like it was their fault or that it "wasn't so bad". To make a joke reinforces those feelings and invalidates the victims' rightful sense of trauma.
Yeah, I know.

But the victim also knows, as victim of any crime of abuse etc, rape is not so specific in this, that people are stupid in this and will joke. Trying to stop this will invite even more taboo. More taboo, more sick jokes. The good ol theory of forbidden fruit. Make something socially unacceptable, and it will become the biggest feed of bad jokes. Learn to live with people's brainfarts, treating them as wtvr, they will die out, on it's own. Like every hype there is. I think it will blow over. I don't really link a term to rape promotion, or deliberately trying to hurt a victim even more. Plus, the rape thing, is really not referring to female rape, with gamers, it seems. It refers to male rape, fags, etc. When people using these terms in gaming aren't gay, nor do they use it in that particular context. It's just a fad, an internal joke about dominating somebody by being more skilled, and it is used exactly for that inappropriacy and absurdity moment, me thinks. I know that trying to be sensitive is a good thing, for sure. But I think some kind of wild campaign isn't going to stop it. Might reinforce it. Who knows.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 03.03.2012 at 00:04.
  #119  
Old 03.03.2012, 00:17
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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I know that trying to be sensitive is a good thing, for sure. But I think some kind of wild campaign isn't going to stop it. Might reinforce it. Who knows.
I stand by my attitude that people who make these jokes are, in that moment, pathetic, inconsiderate human beings and deserve to be told off. As we see in the unilads Facebook example, there is just complete ignorance regarding the harm caused. At uni in England there was a situation where guys started to make these jokes, a girl present told them to stop, they only carried on, the girl told them it was upsetting, they made fun of her. One of the guys was the girl's boyfriend at the time and she later told him how upsetting she found it and why. He was very apologetic and told his friends they were out of order but their relationship disintegrated from that moment and the girl found rooms going silent when she entered them. Nobody can deal with the reality of this subject so how can you possibly feel you have the right to joke about it?
  #120  
Old 03.03.2012, 00:30
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Re: Rape Jokes Are Not Funny

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Nobody can deal with the reality of this subject so how can you possibly feel you have the right to joke about it?
People will take their right to joke about absolutely anything without asking for permission. It's their risk to make insensitive douches out of themselves should they make a wrong joke to a wrong person.
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