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  #1761  
Old 16.06.2016, 01:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Islamic State?

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  #1762  
Old 16.06.2016, 01:49
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Islamic State?
Not a country, and never will be.
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  #1763  
Old 16.06.2016, 02:27
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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im connecting both the pervasive hate against lgbt among most muslims around the world (also here) with the actual violence and other ill treatment being perpetrated in mainly islamic world. the actual violence is starting to peak through in our world now as well (not just against the gays). doesnt look like its gonna become less any time soon.



jihad fanboyism is a nice start.
What about stormfront? Known to be a visited site of mass murderers

Edit: so with the word most, you're saying over 50%, what are the stats for other religious groups?

Last edited by cyrus; 16.06.2016 at 02:42.
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  #1764  
Old 16.06.2016, 06:40
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You know that muslims don't hold the exclusive rights to capital punishment for anyone other than hetero?
What counts is the crime why gays and straights get capital punishment, not the sole fact that a criminal can be either and anything in-between.

In a strict version of islamic law, being gay IS the crime justifying capital punishment. There is no other legal system where that is the case: Even Victorian England and Nazi Germany had prison and hard work sentences, not death. People still died because the camp and prisons were designed to let people die, but not from capital punishment.

The hate against gays is no specific trait of islamic culture, death penalty for it in shariya is. So in practice, the number of murdered gays can be higher in a given non-islamic country at a given time and place (Nazi Germany 1936-1945), you're right. The legitimation of those deaths however is based on very different grounds. It doesn't matter when one gets a lethal bullet in an Orlando night club, but it matters in politics and in a society.

Violence against gays is one thing, its legitimation is another one. Fighting the legitimation rhetoric is far more difficult than the legal treatment of hate crime.
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  #1765  
Old 16.06.2016, 09:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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im connecting both the pervasive hate against lgbt among most muslims around the world (also here) with the actual violence and other ill treatment being perpetrated in mainly islamic world. the actual violence is starting to peak through in our world now as well (not just against the gays). doesnt look like its gonna become less any time soon.



jihad fanboyism is a nice start.
This is quite of a statement. Who in here is Muslim and has shown hatred toward LGBT??
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  #1766  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

The vast majority of Muslims hate homosexuality. It is illegal in virtually all Muslim countries, and punishable by death in many.

Let's not pretend there's no issue there.
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  #1767  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:05
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The vast majority of Muslims hate homosexuality. It is illegal in virtually all Muslim countries, and punishable by death in many.

Let's not pretend there's no issue there.
And yet I've seem more men holding hands and kissing each other in muslim countries than anywhere else.

I for one think it fantastic news that we focus entirely on islam as the souce of all evil and not look into ways to minimize the impact on whack jobs on society.
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  #1768  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:09
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And yet I've seem more men holding hands and kissing each other in muslim countries than anywhere else.
That's true, they're mad for that. Indians too.

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I for one think it fantastic news that we focus entirely on islam as the souce of all evil and not look into ways to minimize the impact on whack jobs on society.
Or we could just admit that it's a fact that homosexuality is incompatible with the vast majority of Islamic society and not try to sugar coat it.
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  #1769  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:17
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Islamic State?
How about Libya, Irak, Saudi, Afgahnistan.. they have all in the past 20 years thrown sexual male "criminals" off water towers etc. The females are usually stoned to death.
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  #1770  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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This is quite of a statement. Who in here is Muslim and has shown hatred toward LGBT??
I only know of two Muslims on EF. One of them has a penchant for KFC, so I'd say it was him.
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  #1771  
Old 16.06.2016, 10:43
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

You do not necessarily need guns to tackle a gunman.
"Student shown pepper-spraying and tackling gunman in school shooting"

Source and video
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  #1772  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:00
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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so if someone is lyrical about IS and it's ideology you dont think that warrants a closer look on this person. i mean, you could even do that in addition to your general restriction of the public. maybe prevent an extra few killings. why willingly ignore the motive? seems like a valuable piece of info for future reference. find a pattern perhaps. isnt that what intel agencies do?
Anyone with extreme ideologies should be monitored and investigated. But focusing on 1 ideology believing it is the ONLY reason people kill is a dangerous assumption

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you act like someone decides that x people get killed per year due to ideology and that if you stamp out one group, another group would just fill the quotum so why bother.
Not quite - but history has shown that whatever organizations we do manage to get ahead of in terms of counter-terrorism - another one pops up and commits an atrocity. Focusing on one at the detriment of others is what gives opportunity

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how about a compromise? we let intel agencies look for jihad boys and then we prevent them from recruiting and you reduce their travel choices. You impose tighter controls of weapons and explosive materials. You tighten restrictions on controlled or sensitive information.
I've already said that the (16) intelligence agencies should use the intelligence they have gathered to reduce opportunities. You don't get points for repeating it

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instead of hamhandedly restricting the entire populace just to avoid being called an islamophobe.
And yet look at the hamhanded approach to what the populace can take on planes, or the fact they can't be trusted with a chocolate egg with a small toy in it or playing Lawn Darts

Mind you they also can't be trusted to touch something that is clearly very hot - or sip a liquid which is hot - or consume a hot product without letting it cool - without sufficient warning signs.

If Islam really was the problem - Sandy Hook wouldn't have happened. In fact how many of these can be blamed on Islam? This one in New Mexico?
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  #1773  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:06
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The vast majority of Muslims hate homosexuality. It is illegal in virtually all Muslim countries, and punishable by death in many.

Let's not pretend there's no issue there.
You didn't go in many Muslim countries haven't you? Blatant generalization won't bring you far. You still didn't answer my question. So let me ask again:

Who on THIS forum is Muslim and against LGBT?
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  #1774  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:20
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You didn't go in many Muslim countries haven't you? Blatant generalization won't bring you far. You still didn't answer my question. So let me ask again:

Who on THIS forum is Muslim and against LGBT?
Who gives a shit about this forum? I haven't seen many mass shootings in Switzerland in recent years, nor are Muslims on this forum representative of the greater Muslim world.

People like you hate it when non-Muslims make generalisations about Muslims. You find it illogical, irrational, whatever. And I get that. But just as idiotic is to make generalising statements saying that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion, and that non-believers don't understand what "real Islam" is.

The truth is there is no "real Islam", that's why it's important to look at the facts. Numbers show that the vast majority of Muslims believe that homosexuality is wrong.
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  #1775  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Who gives a shit about this forum? I haven't seen many mass shootings in Switzerland in recent years, nor are Muslims on this forum representative of the greater Muslim world.

People like you hate it when non-Muslims make generalisations about Muslims. You find it illogical, irrational, whatever. And I get that. But just as idiotic is to make generalising statements saying that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion, and that non-believers don't understand what "real Islam" is.

The truth is there is no "real Islam", that's why it's important to look at the facts. Numbers show that the vast majority of Muslims believe that homosexuality is wrong.
To be honest...I cant remember many pro LGBT tolerant conversations with Muslims. On the other hand, I haven't had many pro tolerance conversations with anyone who is actively involved in their own religion.
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  #1776  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

Many Christians and the vast majority of Evangelical Christians and a large part of the Catholic communities in many countries are principally opposed to LGTB people. As so are Orthodox Jews. There is a huge difference between being 'religiously' not in accord with something and hatred to the point of killing, be it individuals or 'en masse' as in this case!

My father's sister committed suicide in the late 40s because she was Catholic and gay- and so did a cousin of my mother's. A nephew had to leave Switzerland to go and live in Canada to feel accepted, and a niece has chosen celibacy as this is the only way she can be accepted as part of the Swiss Catholic community- by denying her sexuality. Things are slowly changing- but you can hardly state that other religions are generally accepting of LGBT!
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  #1777  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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The truth is there is no "real Islam", that's why it's important to look at the facts. Numbers show that the vast majority of Muslims believe that homosexuality is wrong.
Here are some interesting numbers based on countries as opposed to religion.



Source
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  #1778  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:37
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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And yet I've seem more men holding hands and kissing each other in muslim countries than anywhere else.

I for one think it fantastic news that we focus entirely on islam as the souce of all evil and not look into ways to minimize the impact on whack jobs on society.
" I've seem more men holding hands" Indeed, I found that surprising. Often one or both also carrying a Jasmine flower, or similar.
Especially as in some countries carrying a Jasmine flower means you are wanting to get married?
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  #1779  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:44
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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This is quite of a statement. Who in here is Muslim and has shown hatred toward LGBT??
yeah right im talking about the islamic world as opposed to EF...

mann mann mann.

"here" as in western world of course
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  #1780  
Old 16.06.2016, 11:46
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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To be honest...I cant remember many pro LGBT tolerant conversations with Muslims. On the other hand, I haven't had many pro tolerance conversations with anyone who is actively involved in their own religion.
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Many Christians and the vast majority of Evangelical Christians and a large part of the Catholic communities in many countries are principally opposed to LGTB people. As so are Orthodox Jews. There is a huge difference between being 'religiously' not in accord with something and hatred to the point of killing, be it individuals or 'en masse' as in this case!

My father's sister committed suicide in the late 40s because she was Catholic and gay- and so did a cousin of my mother's. A nephew had to leave Switzerland to go and live in Canada to feel accepted, and a niece has chosen celibacy as this is the only way she can be accepted as part of the Swiss Catholic community- by denying her sexuality. Things are slowly changing- but you can hardly state that other religions are generally accepting of LGBT!
Anecdotal evidence doesn't help. The numbers show that Christians are far more tolerant of homosexuality. Furthermore, many in the Western World don't even identify with any religion.

I don't believe this guy shot up the club because of Islam, however it did give an "excuse" and enablement to do so.

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