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  #1801  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:30
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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so how much does one need to know to be considered an islamist by you?

is hypocrisy in (religious) people really so surprising?
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1. An Islamic revivalist movement, often characterized by moral conservatism, literalism, and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all spheres of life.
2. The religious faith, principles, or cause of Islam.
Link

Our gunman missed quite a lot of the note on how to be an Islamist.
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  #1802  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:33
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

I have to admit the ability of gun loving Americans to twist the argument is truly impressive.

Lets look at the numbers - between 2004 and 2013 there were 36 terrorism related deaths on US soil of American citizens. If you go back to 9/11 there have been 2961 deaths of US soil - 2902 of those on 9/11.

In 2014 the firearm related death rate in the US is 10.54 per 100,000 - or about 31000 per year (give or take). So in the time it took for 59 US citizen to be killed by terrorists on US soil - around 350,000 people were killed by a firearm in the US.

Or enough people to be the 57th largest city in the US.

Sources: Terrorist deaths; US Information - Wikipedia.
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  #1803  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Our gunman missed quite a lot of the note on how to be an Islamist.
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adj
(Islam) supporting or advocating Islamic fundamentalism
n
(Islam) a supporter or advocate of Islamic fundamentalism
seems like he fully got it, tbh.
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  #1804  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:34
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Our gunman missed quite a lot of the note on how to be an Islamist.
In reductio ad absurdum then bobody is really ever anything.
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  #1805  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:35
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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No it shows that he didn't know much about these groups.

He was hanging out in gay bars, drinking and definitely not living the "Islamic" way.
Not trying to offend you, or judge you either, but haven't you stated on a previous post on this forum that you are a non-practicing Muslim?

Ah, found it, from here, post no. 4:

Daily Life for Muslims in Switzerland

"We are Muslims.

For my part I am a non believer and my husband is more of a culturally kind of Muslim. He usually goes to the mosque once a year (if so) top." - nil

Most of the Islamic world would also say that you yourself are not living the 'Islamic way'. A non-believer, no less - that's apostasy, no? - punishable by death in many countries.

So are you a Muslim or not?

Not that I care, just pointing out your hypocrisy. You say the shooter was not a true Muslim, yet he was more active in Islam than you are - though you call yourself a Muslim.

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  #1806  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:41
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I have to admit the ability of gun loving Americans to twist the argument is truly impressive.
right, because as an American concerned about Islamic terrorism, it means that you must love guns.
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  #1807  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:48
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Not trying to offend you, or judge you either, but haven't you stated on a previous post on this forum that you are a non-practicing Muslim?

Ah, found it, from here, post no. 4:

Daily Life for Muslims in Switzerland

"We are Muslims.

For my part I am a non believer and my husband is more of a culturally kind of Muslim. He usually goes to the mosque once a year (if so) top." - nil

Most of the Islamic world would also say that you yourself are not living the 'Islamic way'. A non-believer, no less - that's apostasy, no? - punishable by death in many countries.

So are you a Muslim or not?

Not that I care, just pointing out your hypocrisy. You say the shooter was not a true Muslim, yet he was more active in Islam than you are - though you call yourself a Muslim.

Since you are so good at finding what I said, please tell me where I said the shooter wasn't a true Muslim?
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  #1808  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:55
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Since you are so good at finding what I said, please tell me where I said the shooter wasn't a true Muslim?
Is it out of line for me to infer that from you saying that "He missed quite a lot of the note on how to be an Islamist" and that he was "definitely not living the Islamic way"

If so, well - sorry, you got me there :roll eyes:

Are you going to answer my question now?
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  #1809  
Old 16.06.2016, 14:59
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Is it out of line for me to infer that from you saying that "He missed quite a lot of the note on how to be an Islamist" and that he was "definitely not living the Islamic way"

If so, well - sorry, you got me there :roll eyes:

Are you going to answer my question now?
I'll refer you to the definition of Islamist, which he wasn't. Saying you are an Islamist isn't enough to be one. Islam is the religion, Islamism is a way of living, he didn't lived like an Islamist.

Not all Muslims are Islamists and all Islamists are Muslims.
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  #1810  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:08
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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I'll refer you to the definition of Islamist, which he wasn't. Saying you are an Islamist isn't enough to be one. Islam is the religion, Islamism is a way of living, he didn't lived like an Islamist.

Not all Muslims are Islamists and all Islamists are Muslims.
whatever - in the thesaurus section of the link you posted, Islamist is a synonym for Muslim. But you just want to have your cake and eat it, too.
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  #1811  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:12
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Since you are so good at finding what I said, please tell me where I said the shooter wasn't a true Muslim?
Would that be the same as a true Scotsman?
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  #1812  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:23
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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whatever - in the thesaurus section of the link you posted, Islamist is a synonym for Muslim. But you just want to have your cake and eat it, too.
Eeeeeeh nope, read again.
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  #1813  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:38
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Eeeeeeh nope, read again.
wow, you're really reaching now.

Islamist (ˈɪzləmɪst)
adj
(Islam) supporting or advocating Islamic fundamentalism
n
(Islam) a supporter or advocate of Islamic fundamentalism


Are you saying that the shooter, a Muslim who swore allegiance to ISIS, a fundamentalist Islamic organization, while he was murdering 49 people to advocate Islamic fundamentalism, was not an Islamist?
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  #1814  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:43
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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Are you saying that the shooter, a Muslim who swore allegiance to ISIS, a fundamentalist Islamic organization, while he was murdering 49 people to advocate Islamic fundamentalism, was not an Islamist?
From Lewtons link

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He pledged allegiance to Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda AND ISIS, 3 organizations that are de facto at war with each other, showing he was ignorant about all 3
That's like pledging allegiance to Russia, The USA and North Korea.. its nonsense.
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  #1815  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:47
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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From Lewtons link



That's like pledging allegiance to Russia, The USA and North Korea.. its nonsense.
Exactly - how much of a nutcase must you be to pledge allegiance to the USA?? They do weird shit like sing praise to a flag!!

They'll be voting in a giant oompah lumpah next!
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  #1816  
Old 16.06.2016, 15:52
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

You can't drink, go into bars, have an application to meet up with gay men and in the meantime swear allegiance to Islamic organisations that have the reputation to kill, torture, arrest, amputate people of their own organization and civilians for these "crimes".

I stand by what I said, according of what we know so far he wasn't an Islamist but wanted to make people believe he was.
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  #1817  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:01
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

from the article (Lewton's link):

"Brandes-Tuka pointed out that according to all available evidence, Mateenís attack was rooted not in a desire to carry out an act of terrorism in the name of radical Islamic views, but rather as the result of letting hate take over his life and working for an employer with a long background of abuse and domination"

Hmm..nice conjecture by the author, but interestingly enough, he never mentioned any of these things while killing 49 people. He did, however, cite ISIS allegiance and US-Afghanistan involvement as his motive.

Whether or not he was well versed on politics or Islam is neither here nor there.

Just because some guy on the internet says it had nothing to do with Islam, doesn't make it true. I'll look to the facts and statements before some Islamist apologist's opinion, thanks...
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  #1818  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You can't drink, go into bars, have an application to meet up with gay men and in the meantime swear allegiance to Islamic organisations that have the reputation to kill, torture, arrest, amputate people of their own organization and civilians for these "crimes".

I stand by what I said, according of what we know so far he wasn't an Islamist but wanted to make people believe he was.
But you can call yourself a non-believer Muslim? The irony...
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  #1819  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:03
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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You can't drink, go into bars, have an application to meet up with gay men and in the meantime swear allegiance to Islamic organisations that have the reputation to kill, torture, arrest, amputate people of their own organization and civilians for these "crimes".

I stand by what I said, according of what we know so far he wasn't an Islamist but wanted to make people believe he was.
Uhm didn't the 9/11 high jackers drink and go to strip clubs?
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  #1820  
Old 16.06.2016, 16:16
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Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )

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But you can call yourself a non-believer Muslim? The irony...
Still talking about me? How does it prove the point that he was or not an Islamist?

Stay on the topic, please
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