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Old 23.09.2012, 23:10
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Apple have lost their edge

Updated to IOS6 and can't but notice how Apple seem to be losing their edge. First they sue Samsung, now they copy the Swiss clock without asking and now they replace google maps with a map system that is back in the dark ages!

This wouldnt be the approach when Steve Jobs was there!
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Old 23.09.2012, 23:15
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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Updated to IOS6 and can't but notice how Apple seem to be losing their edge. First they sue Samsung, now they copy the Swiss clock without asking and now they replace google maps with a map system that is back in the dark ages!

This wouldnt be the approach when Steve Jobs was there!
I was wondering when someone would start this thread. Agree wholeheartedly. The iPad is the only device where Apple still has a true competitive advantage.
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Old 23.09.2012, 23:27
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

Excellent column by Joe Nocera in the NY Times: Has Apple Peaked?. Definitely worth reading in full, but here are a few quotes (bold added by me):
Quote:
If Steve Jobs were still alive, would the new map application on the iPhone 5 be such an unmitigated disaster? Interesting question, isn’t it?

...

Part of the reason is obvious: Jobs isn’t there anymore. It is rare that a company is so completely an extension of one man’s brain as Apple was an extension of Jobs. While he was alive, that was a strength; now it’s a weakness.

...

But there is also a less obvious — yet possibly more important — reason that Apple’s best days may soon be behind it. When Jobs returned to the company in 1997, after 12 years in exile, Apple was in deep trouble. It could afford to take big risks and, indeed, to search for a new business model, because it had nothing to lose.

Fifteen years later, Apple has a hugely profitable business model to defend — and a lot to lose. Companies change when that happens. “The business model becomes a gilded cage, and management won’t do anything to challenge it, while doing everything they can to protect it,” says Larry Keeley, an innovation strategist at Doblin, a consulting firm.
Goes on to compare the evolution of Apple to that of Microsoft ... does anyone still remember how innovative it once was?
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Old 24.09.2012, 00:49
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

i agree with most of that article...so much so that I am trying to work up the courage to short the mighty Apple.
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Old 24.09.2012, 00:57
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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i agree with most of that article...so much so that I am trying to work up the courage to short the mighty Apple.
To be honest the PE is not that high at all, especially with the no of pre orders for the Iphone 5. A year from now when it's trading at 1500 you might get a window of opertunity!
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Old 24.09.2012, 01:02
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

i wouldn't buy apple, but i certainly don't have the balls to short it.

i think they'll have a fantastic result with the iphone5 and the next generation of ipad, but i think the writing is on the wall: the other manufacturers have caught up.

some people will switch to android alternatives (maybe even win9 phones :P) and continued improvement and competition will either curtail margins or market share.

i guess if i was forced to short at gun point, i would do so just after the huge iphone 5 sales.
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Old 24.09.2012, 15:39
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

well the "huge iphone 5 sales" were a bit of a damp squib... 5 million over the weekend as against expectations ranging from 8 to 10 million.

I know I know.. 5 million is nothing to sneeze at either. the point is, that expectations ran far ahead of reality. and expectations is what stock prices are made of.

Last edited by dino; 24.09.2012 at 16:08. Reason: added quote marks
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Old 24.09.2012, 21:46
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Most of the things from Apple are just marketing... a good company with some good products but they didn't invent the wheel.. on the other hand those intellectual processes can become the worse strategic business approach... a boomerang effect.
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Old 27.09.2012, 07:17
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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Most of the things from Apple are just marketing... a good company with some good products but they didn't invent the wheel.. on the other hand those intellectual processes can become the worse strategic business approach... a boomerang effect.
How true their maps are a legendary flop. Decided they couldnt copy Google nor could they have their product installed so made up their own crappy map system that will now be the excuse if you get lost. I was using Apple maps sir I got lost

Seems that unless they copy others they are now more or less lacking in invention - SBB clock is a great example couldnt even work out their own clock and as indicated their maps also they clearly have tried to copy google who have invested years into mapping. Unfortunately for Apple you dont just roll out some maps that you dream up to match a successful mapping system like google
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Old 27.09.2012, 08:38
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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Updated to IOS6 and can't but notice how Apple seem to be losing their edge. First they sue Samsung, now they copy the Swiss clock without asking and now they replace google maps with a map system that is back in the dark ages!

This wouldnt be the approach when Steve Jobs was there!
I think the title of this thread, appropriate to your comments should be...

"It's clear Apple lost their leader"

SJ would have never settled for this buffoonery that is now happening, it is a crime.
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  #11  
Old 27.09.2012, 09:33
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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I think the title of this thread, appropriate to your comments should be...

"It's clear Apple lost their leader"

SJ would have never settled for this buffoonery that is now happening, it is a crime.

And he's not around to provide the vision to get the next thing that consumers don't know they need yet to market.
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  #12  
Old 27.09.2012, 11:53
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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How true their maps are a legendary flop. Decided they couldnt copy Google nor could they have their product installed so made up their own crappy map system that will now be the excuse if you get lost. I was using Apple maps sir I got lost

Seems that unless they copy others they are now more or less lacking in invention - SBB clock is a great example couldnt even work out their own clock and as indicated their maps also they clearly have tried to copy google who have invested years into mapping. Unfortunately for Apple you dont just roll out some maps that you dream up to match a successful mapping system like google
I wouldn't call v1.0 a legendary flop, it will be refined and revised until they eventually get it right. As for Google Maps, you forget that the true pioneer was TomTom (upon which Apple Maps is based), a company founded when Page and Brin were still at high school.
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Old 27.09.2012, 12:04
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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I wouldn't call v1.0 a legendary flop, it will be refined and revised until they eventually get it right. As for Google Maps, you forget that the true pioneer was TomTom (upon which Apple Maps is based), a company founded when Page and Brin were still at high school.
TomTom maps (which IOS6 maps are based on) are absolute rubbish for finding anything.

I gave up using them with my TomTom GPS and now use Google maps which is much, much more superior.
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Old 27.09.2012, 12:12
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

I just use a map and compass
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Old 27.09.2012, 12:19
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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I just use a map and compass
In the car? It's a pain to get out everytime you want to take an accurate bearing.

I used to use the sun for car navigation. Not so good when reception's not so good on a cloudy day.
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Old 27.09.2012, 12:21
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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I wouldn't call v1.0 a legendary flop, it will be refined and revised until they eventually get it right. As for Google Maps, you forget that the true pioneer was TomTom (upon which Apple Maps is based), a company founded when Page and Brin were still at high school.
Yes, but by the time Apple gets this right, how far ahead will Google be? I'm sure Google won't be quietly resting on their laurels.
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Old 27.09.2012, 12:46
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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Yes, but by the time Apple gets this right, how far ahead will Google be? I'm sure Google won't be quietly resting on their laurels.
I actually think Apple is already ahead in terms of using vector graphics for mapping, as opposed to Google's bitmapped tiles. This allows you to quickly zoom in/out, dynamically rotate etc.. without having to wait for tiles to download from a server. There have been numerous times when I've been out and about on a slow data connection, waiting ages staring at a blurry map whilst Google serves up the replacement tile.
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Old 27.09.2012, 12:54
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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I actually think Apple is already ahead in terms of using vector graphics for mapping, as opposed to Google's bitmapped tiles. This allows you to quickly zoom in/out, dynamically rotate etc.. without having to wait for tiles to download from a server. There have been numerous times when I've been out and about on a slow data connection, waiting ages staring at a blurry map whilst Google serves up the replacement tile.
I agree about the vector graphics technology, but what good is all that when the base information is incomplete or inaccurate? IMO, it doesn't matter how pretty it renders or how quickly it fetches data if the locations are wrong or things are just plain missing.

BTW, the weekend before last I was able to navigate about London on an Android smartphone entirely without a data connection (my phone sim only works inside Switzerland). I simply set my destination(s), panned and scrolled the maps while connected to wi-fi to ensure I had them, then set off with only the GPS enabled. Worked beautifully. Don't know that Apple maps would let me do that?
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Old 27.09.2012, 13:25
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

Nokia use vector graphics too. I remember looking at their mapping solutions a couple of years ago - very smart even then. To be honest, the new Apple maps backend has gotten so much criticism that just for that reason I will not buy an iPhone 5 tomorrow (my 3 GS has had it). I depend on Google maps - especially the public transport bit - too much.

Regarding offline maps, I've been using the CityMaps2Go app (and its earlier incarnation) for a few years now, and they have been using vector graphics for quite a while. They use openstreetmaps as data source, so the maps are a mixed bag.

I think Apple really underestimated how important Maps are to some customers - as I've mentioned, it's the killer app for me (more than e-mail), used at least once a day. Apparently they are scrambling to fix what they can asap, but I hope a Google maps app is coming soon...
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Old 27.09.2012, 13:59
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Re: Apple have lost their edge

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I just use a map and compass
I'm a man. I use the Force.
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