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  #121  
Old 29.11.2012, 17:40
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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Thanks for the articles, bloody hilarious.
You know women, why marriages fail, according to this article linked by the OP: http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/...ry-bubble.html

The reasons that marriage 'worked' not too long ago were: People married at the age of 20. The wife retained her beauty 15 years into the marriage, and the lack of processed junk food kept her slim even after that.

And the reasons more marriage fail nowadays?
Women marrying at an age when very few years of their peak beauty are remaining.
Great article - I particularly liked the words that follow your quote...

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who then promptly emerges from her svelte chrysalis in an event that can best be described as a fatocalypse.
Great word
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  #122  
Old 29.11.2012, 18:34
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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Isn't that what i said. I said it takes a declension form that is otherwise predominatly associated with the feminine grammatical gender. That's not at all the same as saying the word itself is feminine. There are other examples in Latin of words doing similar things and adjectives always agree with the grammatical gender, not the declension (there are other examples of words that changed their grammatical gender over time but not their declension).
The word for pirate as well as sailor are also in the first declension (fem)...so I'm not sure you're suggesting that the Romans were being cheeky and suggesting that pirates and sailors were 'gay blades' in the same way you're thinking that there's some gender innuendo going on with farmer. There's never been much in the way of proof that there was anything systematic about these masculine nouns in the first declension.

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I have a friend who is an anthroplogist and philologist and knows a lot about the origins of words in different languages (not just European ones, as he know quite a bit about Japanese for example) and he says there's much more innuendo in Latin than meets the eye but you have to be dig under the surface to find it, and compare it to the languages and cultures that influenced it. A lot of it is in the subtelties and can easily be overlooked if you take an all too strict and canonical approach. And of course you can't see the language in isolation but see it in the context of what was being said and the social structures and values of its time. Remember, for example, that Rome was the melting pot of cultures of its time. It was the New York or London of the ancient era. And for all their faults, the Romans were no xenophobes but gladly assimilated the best of other cultures into their own.
Innuendo in the written word, yes, but in terms of grammar...not that I've ever noticed. The Romans were indeed a loss in terms of melting pot societies and the language surely borrowed quite heavily from those they conquered.
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  #123  
Old 29.11.2012, 18:36
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

when did this turn into latinforum.ch?? YAWN.
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  #124  
Old 30.11.2012, 13:31
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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when did this turn into latinforum.ch?? YAWN.
I think the pendulum swung the wrong way...
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  #125  
Old 30.11.2012, 13:48
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

My view on this is that it is simple. Blame it on The Pill.

Girls got married and had babies - lots of babies - most every year the woman was pregnant.
She had lots of work - cooking/baking/preserving/cleaning/weaving/sewing/milking/feeding cows, goats, chickens, sheep/gardening vegetables, etc.
Husband had to work hard to provide for growing family - either on own land or in business.

Wife would die +- 15 years later. Or he died.

Survivor HAD to remarry to continue providing for large family.

Nowadays - girls marry later, choose when and how many children to have, and live longer. Men same story.

I read somewhere that the average length of a marriage up to 100 years ago was 15 years. No divorce. Death did it.

Retirement was something one`s children provided.
Now parents must provide their own retirement means.

Which means the wife needs to provide her own - she cannot rely on the judgement of a judge in divorce court. Plus she needs to be able to ALSO afford a good lawyer.

As I`ve said before..... the world`s going to hell in a s**t bucket.

If women had remained as the Matriarchs in Charge of the World, and men had never risen to "power" - everyone would still be happy. I think?
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  #126  
Old 30.11.2012, 14:01
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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If women had remained as the Matriarchs in Charge of the World, and men had never risen to "power" - everyone would still be happy. I think?
Having grown up in Thatcher's Britain I can see how everything was much better when the country was run by a matriarch.

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  #127  
Old 30.11.2012, 14:55
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

I think anyone who cites Fox News as a source of anything but ridicule and amusement has immediately lost all credibility.

It's frightening though, to see an increase of these kind of views lately. We seem to be heading for a backlash in society.
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  #128  
Old 30.11.2012, 15:01
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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My view on this is that it is simple. Blame it on The Pill.

Girls got married and had babies - lots of babies - most every year the woman was pregnant.
She had lots of work - cooking/baking/preserving/cleaning/weaving/sewing/milking/feeding cows, goats, chickens, sheep/gardening vegetables, etc.
Husband had to work hard to provide for growing family - either on own land or in business.

Wife would die +- 15 years later. Or he died.

Survivor HAD to remarry to continue providing for large family.

Nowadays - girls marry later, choose when and how many children to have, and live longer. Men same story.

I read somewhere that the average length of a marriage up to 100 years ago was 15 years. No divorce. Death did it.

Retirement was something one`s children provided.
Now parents must provide their own retirement means.

Which means the wife needs to provide her own - she cannot rely on the judgement of a judge in divorce court. Plus she needs to be able to ALSO afford a good lawyer.

As I`ve said before..... the world`s going to hell in a s**t bucket.

If women had remained as the Matriarchs in Charge of the World, and men had never risen to "power" - everyone would still be happy. I think?

Not mention that MAN are occupied with Hunting and Fishing
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  #129  
Old 30.11.2012, 15:29
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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I think anyone who cites Fox News as a source of anything but ridicule and amusement has immediately lost all credibility.

It's frightening though, to see an increase of these kind of views lately. We seem to be heading for a backlash in society.
It has been coming for a while as there have been numerous articles discussing how Ivy educated women are opting out of the rat race to raise their kids and be SAHMs, etc., because somehow women are just finding out that you can't have it all all at once, only a little at a time and not necessarily everything. The only thing that working gets you if you have kids is just another 8+ hours and a paycheck. Your job at home remains the same unless you outsource...

Switzerland is, indeed, like stepping into a time machine to see what the modern world might be like if women stayed home with the kids so there's no shocker with some of the views here that align with that. If you enjoy living in Switzerland, by and large, you enjoy the view that women should stay at home to raise the kids.
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  #130  
Old 30.11.2012, 15:33
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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when did this turn into latinforum.ch?? YAWN.
Scoff if you like, but language and how it is used does tell a lot about its users and how they view the world. There's a paper about to be published by a guy at Yale who relates how Finnish as no future tense and how this relates to their approach to the current eurocrisis, etc. So, it's not a big stretch to scrutinize language for clues to support this idea of widespread misandry.
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  #131  
Old 30.11.2012, 15:42
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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... it's not a big stretch to scrutinize language for clues to support this idea of widespread misandry.
If we are having to go down to that level, then really, does it exist?

Such analysis of our language may suggest that there are pre-conceptions and prejudices about how we view the world. It doesn't say that systemic misandry exists though...

Just sayin', because that was the OP's original premise.

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Switzerland is, indeed, like stepping into a time machine to see what the modern world might be like if women stayed home with the kids so there's no shocker with some of the views here that align with that. If you enjoy living in Switzerland, by and large, you enjoy the view that women should stay at home to raise the kids.
I don't agree with this. What this says more is that one of the parents should stay at home. Indeed, I know several people who've basically opted to job share with their OH's where they work 50/50, but one parent is always at home. Yes, it is not the norm, but I see it increasingly that many people are also opting out of working 100% and the rat race, and just want a job and have a better work-life balance working at 80% or less.

The rat race, IMO is at its worst in America and UK - in central Europe I believe the need/desire to have double incomes is much less, but attitudes to whom should stay at home are shifting.

Now, I'll not deny that women are usually the ones to stay at home or that prejudices against women at work remain, but that does not mean that "one enjoys the view that women should stay at home to raise kids" - it is a generalisation too far.
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  #132  
Old 30.11.2012, 15:48
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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Scoff if you like, but language and how it is used does tell a lot about its users and how they view the world. There's a paper about to be published by a guy at Yale who relates how Finnish as no future tense and how this relates to their approach to the current eurocrisis, etc. So, it's not a big stretch to scrutinize language for clues to support this idea of widespread misandry.


stop for a moment to consider what you are saying: you are examining Latin to find clues to support widespread misandry.

now take a moment.

let that sink in.

breathe.

ok?

welcome back to reality.
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  #133  
Old 30.11.2012, 19:03
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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stop for a moment to consider what you are saying: you are examining Latin to find clues to support widespread misandry.
No, I was pointing out a probable stretch in another post but....language does tell a lot about who its speakers are and what they're thinking about. English doesn't really indicate widespread misandry but it does give you clues about patterns involving gender, e.g. 'manny' for a male nanny, which tells you that male nannies are common enough to coin the word and the somewhat diminutive connotation in its use gives you clues on how those who use the word feel about male nannies. On the other hand, there is no similar word for male nurse, i.e. murse, so it's not a consistently applied phenomena and men have now been in nursing long enough that they've become accepted. Does that help?
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  #134  
Old 30.11.2012, 19:14
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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I don't agree with this. What this says more is that one of the parents should stay at home. Indeed, I know several people who've basically opted to job share with their OH's where they work 50/50, but one parent is always at home. Yes, it is not the norm, but I see it increasingly that many people are also opting out of working 100% and the rat race, and just want a job and have a better work-life balance working at 80% or less.

The rat race, IMO is at its worst in America and UK - in central Europe I believe the need/desire to have double incomes is much less, but attitudes to whom should stay at home are shifting.

Now, I'll not deny that women are usually the ones to stay at home or that prejudices against women at work remain, but that does not mean that "one enjoys the view that women should stay at home to raise kids" - it is a generalisation too far.
Just because men stay home at all doesn't mean that it's shifting so much as much as it says that either the woman has a better income or those particular men find it a good thing to do. But where the man has a higher income or more established career, the norm still holds. It would be interesting to see what ratio of Swiss women keep those executive-style jobs after having kids as opposed to expat women hired on from elsewhere with a husband who doesn't mind being the trailing spouse. With expats, roles have always been a bit more flexible due to the need for it, not necessarily from being more 'liberated'. Even in countries where the man can take up to 6 months in paternal leave if spouses wish to split the time off to care for a newborn, studies are pretty consistent in showing the father very rarely takes more than a week or two - even if both parents are working.

Switzerland is very different to the rest of the EU in that the primary earner gets a higher salary to support the family and the entire structure is set up to encourage that the mother stays home with the kids. There's nothing wrong with that, but for a lot of families, mine included, that just wasn't my cup of tea.
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  #135  
Old 05.12.2012, 14:19
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

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...which means quite a lot of men will find themselves becoming second quality merchandise on the marriage market...
IMHO, this has been happening for some time now. Marriage (and birth) rates in the developed world are dropping.
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  #136  
Old 06.12.2012, 17:19
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Re: Misandry in the Western Society. The War on Men.

Interesting comment and view pertaining this topic:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...lace-of-facts/
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