Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #501  
Old 09.08.2010, 15:16
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,263
Groaned at 216 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 19,342 Times in 7,873 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Circumcision preventig HIV infection?!?! Are au realy serius about?

Sorry, it does not make sense to me why circ reduces HIV infections.
Perhaps I can explain. Scientific studies have shown that the chance of catching HIV from an infected person is reduced if you are circumcised.

In countries where condom wearing is considered to be unmanly, this has been greeted with delight. However, it's all about risks - something that the majority of people seem incapable of understanding.

hth
Reply With Quote
  #502  
Old 09.08.2010, 15:35
Macchiato's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 732
Groaned at 22 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 330 Times in 218 Posts
Macchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeableMacchiato is considered knowledgeable
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

A never ending thread, No little piece of skin has ever caused so much attention !
Reply With Quote
  #503  
Old 09.08.2010, 16:54
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps I can explain. Scientific studies have shown that the chance of catching HIV from an infected person is reduced if you are circumcised.

In countries where condom wearing is considered to be unmanly, this has been greeted with delight. However, it's all about risks - something that the majority of people seem incapable of understanding.

hth
I do believe it was one study, not several, vaginal intercourse was the only viral propagation method tested (despite anal intercourse being 900 times more likely to transfer the virus) and community viral resistance was not accounted for (the noted effect of prostitutes developing a semi resistance while being continuously surrounded by the virus). Although the W.H.O accepts the data, the jury is still out and more tests need to be done, but of course it is quite difficult to assess, and unless they do double blind testing in which they actively infect healthy people with the virus, the data will still be dodgey.
Reply With Quote
  #504  
Old 09.08.2010, 16:59
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
I do believe it was one study, not several
There are various criticisms of the methodologies used, but there are several studies.
Reply With Quote
  #505  
Old 09.08.2010, 17:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
There are various criticisms of the methodologies used, but there are several studies.
I stand corrected.
Reply With Quote
  #506  
Old 09.08.2010, 20:45
Tom73's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KnonauerAmt
Posts: 401
Groaned at 63 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 81 Posts
Tom73 is considered unworthyTom73 is considered unworthyTom73 is considered unworthyTom73 is considered unworthy
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
In countries where condom wearing is considered to be unmanly, this has been greeted with delight. However, it's all about risks - something that the majority of people seem incapable of understanding.
hth
I belive that is complete nonsense, that is like you would tell you are getting blind from w...ing.
So where do you think is the difference in sexual intercource between a not circ. and a cicumcisoned penis.

I belive there is higher risk with a circ. penis to transmit STD`s. There are studies which proof that.
Reply With Quote
  #507  
Old 12.08.2010, 06:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Posts: 610
Groaned at 155 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 318 Times in 211 Posts
drsmithy has earned some respectdrsmithy has earned some respect
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
I belive that is complete nonsense, that is like you would tell you are getting blind from w...ing.
You might not believe it, but multiple studies, from multiple sources, have produced the same result. To the point that at least one such study was stopped halfway through and the uncircumcised participants offered circumcision, because the results were so compelling.

Now, it's important to understand that the additional "protection" compared to wearing a condom is basically a rounding error, but if you start from the assumption of unprotected sex with multiple infected partners, then being circumcised is, indeed, better than not, by an appreciable amount.

The application of said studies' conclusions in the western world, with vastly better sex education, access to condoms, and much lower STD rates, is highly questionable.

Quote:
So where do you think is the difference in sexual intercource between a not circ. and a cicumcisoned penis.
An uncut penis has a mucus membrane. A circumcised one does not. A circumcised penis will also cause more abrasive friction.
Reply With Quote
  #508  
Old 12.08.2010, 07:11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 401
Groaned at 78 Times in 61 Posts
Thanked 1,432 Times in 581 Posts
reids has a reputation beyond reputereids has a reputation beyond reputereids has a reputation beyond reputereids has a reputation beyond reputereids has a reputation beyond reputereids has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
You might not believe it, but multiple studies, from multiple sources, have produced the same result. To the point that at least one such study was stopped halfway through and the uncircumcised participants offered circumcision, because the results were so compelling.......
Amongst the fake LOLS, the smileys (never a good indication of someone worth discussing things with) and the excessive groaning I gave up on this thread but this post got mailed to me for some reason and I'm calling you on this, you expect us to believe a study was stopped because preliminary results indicated one conclusion? not only that but the control group were immediately offered the active protocol? come off it. Post the link or admit you just made it up.
Reply With Quote
  #509  
Old 24.08.2010, 17:15
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Manchester
Posts: 806
Groaned at 38 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 305 Times in 188 Posts
menace has a reputation beyond reputemenace has a reputation beyond reputemenace has a reputation beyond reputemenace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Aw, it's stopped now
Reply With Quote
  #510  
Old 24.08.2010, 17:24
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,070
Groaned at 352 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 16,660 Times in 5,106 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Circumcision ring cuts AIDS risk in Africa

Device must be worn for 10 days, but solution is cheap and mostly painless

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35407224/
Reply With Quote
  #511  
Old 24.08.2010, 17:37
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,229
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Amongst the fake LOLS, the smileys (never a good indication of someone worth discussing things with) and the excessive groaning I gave up on this thread but this post got mailed to me for some reason and I'm calling you on this, you expect us to believe a study was stopped because preliminary results indicated one conclusion? not only that but the control group were immediately offered the active protocol? come off it. Post the link or admit you just made it up.
Are you objecting to a study being stopped half way and treatment being given to the placebo arm, or are you objecting to an AIDS study doing this?

If the former, then just do the research yourself - there's a tonne of such studies where the results have been so compelling that studies are stopped and patients put on whichever treatment was better. Likewise the inverse, when the study was negative and patients taken off treatment. They are done by the safety boards of such studies who review interim analyses on which to monitor the results as the study progresses.

If the latter, you'll have to hope that drsmithy provides you the info if you can't find it yourself.
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 24.08.2010, 17:38
herc82's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,624
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 975 Times in 605 Posts
herc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond reputeherc82 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Circumcision ring cuts AIDS risk in Africa

Device must be worn for 10 days, but solution is cheap and mostly painless

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35407224/
Great quote from the Article
"Scientists think circumcision reduces the chances of HIV infection because the foreskin is particularly susceptible to HIV."

But I applaud that they do something..
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 24.08.2010, 17:56
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I was told by a circumcised man that the reason for circumcision was for health reasons. Where lack of water is a problem to bath smegma collects and can harbour bacteria. However the counter argument is that with a lack of lubrication the glans is exposed to more abrasion any soreness could also invite infection. Obviously this would be alleviated if the partner provided their own lubrication. Also I have found that anything that nature has given us tends to be self-cleaning any intrusive cleaning like ear canal cleaning or douches can actually introduce bacteria and wreck the natural defense.

The same man also told me that because a circumcised man is less sensitive they can ' go for longer' I am not sure if this is desirable, the downside is that dulled sensitivity may result in less tactile pleasure. Also going for longer risks more abrasion.


So my summizing is that unless the man wants to get a tough leathery helmet over time and reduced sensitivity, he will have to resort to other measures ensuring that his partner is fully lubricated before penetration is attempted.


I found this very off putting to look at (prude that I am) but here is an explanation of the functions of the foreskin-

http://www.circumcision.org/foreskin.htm

Surely the argument for circumcising men could be the same for women. remove the lips and there is less risk of harbouring bacteria in the outer protective cover, women become desensitized and so can go for longer. Plus, studies show men prefer giving the equivalent of BJ's to women who are circumcised and circumcised women are less likely to get HIV.
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 24.08.2010, 18:02
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,229
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Surely the argument for circumcising men could be the same for women.
No. FGM is not circumcision. Look it up.
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 24.08.2010, 18:10
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,141
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,935 Times in 2,231 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
No. FGM is not circumcision. Look it up.
Correct, it's not the same thing. But many people see circumcision as Male Genital Mutilation, I would agree with the definition, but according to my numerous piercings, I apparently have no issue with it.
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 24.08.2010, 18:16
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I think that this is the study that the may have been referred to:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...ed.0020393.pdf

At present I can't find a connection between Mr. Jian-Zhong Shang ( the inventor of the ring) and Plos Medicine (behind the survey), but am always suspicious of surveys that quickly come up with a remedy. If this is successful then maybe they should offer it to all men in the Porn industry as the men are not allowed to use condoms- I am sure that will stem the HIV infection rate
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 24.08.2010, 18:40
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,359
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post

The same man also told me that because a circumcised man is less sensitive they can ' go for longer' I am not sure if this is desirable, the downside is that dulled sensitivity may result in less tactile pleasure. Also going for longer risks more abrasion.
This is what you are assuming but I can tell you it is not the case. Less sensitivity doesn't mean less pleasure. And since the gland is already used to free exposition I don't see how in this case it has more risks of abrasion.

And between you and me, to get to the point of abrasion, you have to do it for a very long time, which in this case will bring you to an ejaculation problem.
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 24.08.2010, 18:58
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Less sensitivity doesn't mean less pleasure.
true!

...............
Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 24.08.2010, 20:10
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 159
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 72 Times in 39 Posts
native has earned some respectnative has earned some respect
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
true!

...............
How do you know?
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 24.08.2010, 20:23
Murloc's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bern
Posts: 510
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 563 Times in 283 Posts
Murloc has an excellent reputationMurloc has an excellent reputationMurloc has an excellent reputationMurloc has an excellent reputation
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

I think that it shouldn't be done at birth, because if there are no medical reasons, it's simply useless. Why do it? Why throw money and doctor time away to do something useless? (unless you live in the desert and wear traditional arabic clothing with no underwear, this is the only non-medical case in which it is useful, and it's the reason behind the religious practice of jews and muslims (both desert people))
it makes it harder to masturbate too.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please] wheels Family matters/health 67 15.07.2020 09:23
The Wrong Word(s) [non-native speaker slip-ups] Lob Language corner 218 29.03.2011 13:36
We were all wrong, cars and polution aren't the problem. TEXANSinNJ General off-topic 13 05.01.2008 16:16
Is it wrong to snigger at what your child is doing? Zug bound General off-topic 10 09.11.2007 22:11
What Time is It - Forum Timestamp wrong ! Guest Forum support 1 21.09.2007 16:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0