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-   -   Circumcision: right or wrong? (https://www.englishforum.ch/general-off-topic/16591-circumcision-right-wrong.html)

zulu 06.03.2008 21:19

Re: Circumcision in Switzerland
 
I have had my three children in Switzerland. At each birth you have a pediatrician of your choice present at the birth to make sure the baby is fine. Thats if you are in a private clinic.

At public hospitals it is a different story it would be the pediatrician who is on call that would do the check. They would not agree to a circumcision as you are not jewish.

Therefore you can find a pediatric surgeon who is a "rabbi" that will perform the circumcision for you. But you would have to organize it with the pediatric surgeon prior to birth.

You have to decide if it is really necessary, it has been proven that there is no need to do this for hygienic reasons. If you are worried that he will not look the same as Dad... well thats up to you.
think about very carefully before you go ahead.

gbn 22.06.2008 17:12

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Sorry to resurrect... (nah, not really, let's liven the place up)

Economist article

Quote:

Those who engage in the practice for religious reasons will surely continue to do so. Otherwise, most of the Western world has already largely abandoned routine neonatal circumcision, which is seen as an outdated and unfortunate medical fad.
Quite.

Oldhand 22.06.2008 17:54

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Aw, fancy being told your penis has gone out of fashion.:mad:

Duchess 23.06.2008 17:11

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Male circumcision has its roots in Judaism, with the belief that true perfection or cleanliness was not achieved until this was performed. I don't remember the books in which it is referenced in the Old Testament, but it's in there. That is their belief, and it would be rude, impertinent and ignorant to suggest that they must stop this ritual.

Female circumcision, while disturbing and unfathomable for most Westerners, is not done in most areas of Africa. In the locations where it is undertaken, and is done *willingly* by the female, is seen as the best way to preserve one's virginity and health until marriage (I think we all have some idea of the rampant spread of HIV through rape in Africa). Some aid societies have set up clinics so that people can perform female circumcision in a sterile environment with proper tools so as to help curb infection. This is not promoting it, but it does help to keep safe those that decide to do it.

There have also been some preliminary studies of male circumcision and it's connection with deterring HIV infections (you can read up on some articles here: http://www.thebodypro.com/index/treat/circumcision.html). While the theory is not exactly set in stone, it's an interesting possibility.

Now, personally I feel that male circumcision is a plus. According to my girlfriends that have been with uncut guys, no offense but they've found it pretty unpleasant due to a lack of proper hygiene. Is it really that hard to clean properly down there? Keep it clean or get rid of it!

BHBT 23.06.2008 17:22

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 253647)
Female circumcision, while disturbing and unfathomable for most Westerners, is not done in most areas of Africa. In the locations where it is undertaken, and is done *willingly* by the female, is seen as the best way to preserve one's virginity and health until marriage (I think we all have some idea of the rampant spread of HIV through rape in Africa).

Sorry, I don't understand this reasoning - is the thought that rape would be reduced (and with it the spread of HIV) if the female was to enjoy sex less due to being circumcized?
Could you please explain? Or are you mixing up infibulation with circumcision?

Thanks,
Barbra.

PlantHead 23.06.2008 17:31

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 253647)

Now, personally I feel that male circumcision is a plus. According to my girlfriends that have been with uncut guys, no offense but they've found it pretty unpleasant due to a lack of proper hygiene. Is it really that hard to clean properly down there? Keep it clean or get rid of it!

erm....so if I like hairless women, and think it makes them smell they should have all their hair surgically removed at puberty or before. It doesn't matter that it's pointless and serves no purpose, I want it that way therefore that's my argument.

Edit reading that post again...it has to be a troll post.

Oldhand 23.06.2008 17:34

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
I wonder just how *willing* a young female is about having her genitals mutilated. Not to mention the the consequential problems she will suffer throughout her life. It's the will of her elders.
I have no respect for this tradition and I'm certain it wasn't a women who suddenly thought "hello I'll have my clitoris chopped off and my vagina sewn up, just so a rapist cant have his evil way with me.:rolleyes: Please!

I'm pleased to say that next Thursday a couple will face court proceedings in Zürich for arranging this for there daughter here in Switzerland. (Tages-Anzeiger today)

Duchess 23.06.2008 17:37

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BHBT (Post 253664)
Sorry, I don't understand this reasoning - is the thought that rape would be reduced (and with it the spread of HIV) if the female was to enjoy sex less due to being circumcized?
Could you please explain?

Thanks,
Barbra.

This is usually facilitated by undergoing Type 3 FGC (best explained wiki-style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_..._with_excision). This closes the vaginal opening, until the woman has it reversed/taken out for intercourse or giving birth. I hope this is more clarified for you.

Oldhand 23.06.2008 17:40

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
How many women living in war torn Somalia can pop to the nearest clinic and have this operation reversed?

BHBT 23.06.2008 17:41

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 253685)
This is usually facilitated by undergoing Type 3 FGC (best explained wiki-style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_..._with_excision). This closes the vaginal opening, until the woman has it reversed/taken out for intercourse or giving birth. I hope this is more clarified for you.

OK, so you're mixing infibulation with circumsicion.

Thanks for the explanation.

Barbra.

Duchess 23.06.2008 17:45

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Okay, sorry for the double-posting but I just feel like I should clarify some things!

First, it's not like I all-out support FGC. I like to take an objective viewpoint and try to see what the people who undergo this procedure feel and their reasoning for doing so. I'm hardly a source of any kind, I just have read many many many articles concerning both female and male circumcision (trust me, they are many hours of my life I'm not getting back). Being the Anthropology student that I am, it's my goal/duty to stay objective. A year ago, I had a two-week discussion about this subject that was intense and very heated, but I learned a lot from it. Honestly, who are we to say that someone shouldn't have something done to their body? People go get tattoos and piercings (some in some rather uncomfortable places (Prince Albert anyone?)), and while I understand that circumcision is more intrusive, I feel that I can make the comparison. When people are desperate, sometimes they resort to drastic measures in an effort to feel safer. In some cases, FGC is the measure they resort to. Male circumcision has been taken up by some African gov'ts to help stop AIDS, because the situation is not getting better. You do what you can!

And to PlantHead, shaving isn't that hard. :V

PlantHead 23.06.2008 17:51

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 253696)
And to PlantHead, shaving isn't that hard. :V

You missed my point.

adrian76 23.06.2008 17:59

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 253647)
That is their belief, and it would be rude, impertinent and ignorant to suggest that they must stop this ritual.

In Iran its their belief that an adulterous woman can be stoned to death - would it also be 'rude, impertinent and ignorant' to suggest that they shouldn't do this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 253647)
According to my girlfriends that have been with uncut guys, no offense but they've found it pretty unpleasant due to a lack of proper hygiene.

Tell your girlfriends they should find some clean men.

Duchess 23.06.2008 18:00

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Ack, I did, sorry! Apologies. :embarass:

What I was trying to say was just that it's a bit appalling how...little hygiene matters to quite a few guys around my age (I'm saying 20-25, university years). I mean, I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised but if anything, I would think guys would like to keep their johnsons clean the most!

gbn 23.06.2008 19:55

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Off topic but it feffin annoys me.
For the apologists out there... how does mutilating a young girl help sop this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2977446.stm

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/26428

ze devil's advocate 23.06.2008 20:47

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duchess (Post 253709)
bla bla bla

I don't even know where to start with your posts :msnmad:

nick2008 23.06.2008 21:08

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
hey guys i don't know if anyone has notice that some of the religious ceremonies that were done in the past , were done at birth for a pretty obvious reason. We didn't live that long.

example if you werent bapstised you couldn't be burried so when people died really young that made sense. so back to 2008 with a life expectancy of 77.8
years (for swiss males). it seems like the next logical step to have to live for 76 years with choises made for you.

despite that, even the slightest hint that someone might have more fun than me (you now where...:msnblush:)because of a choice i didn't made and it wasn't health critical ,would drive me absolutely mental. :omg:

StuartP 24.06.2008 14:05

Re: Circumcision in Switzerland
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmical remedy (Post 149429)
The foreskin - What it does

Collect a few and sew together to make a small bag.
Give it a quick rub and suddenly you have a suitcase!
Very practical......:D

Nathu 26.06.2008 18:55

Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldhand (Post 253679)
I'm pleased to say that next Thursday a couple will face court proceedings in Zürich for arranging this for there daughter here in Switzerland. (Tages-Anzeiger today)

They've been found guilty of incitement of aggravated assault. Both father and mother have been sentenced to a conditional two years prison sentence. They'll have to pay a yet unspecified number of amends and damages to their daughter. (NZZ article)

goombie 03.04.2009 13:50

Circumcision: Right or Wrong II
 
Agree with not starting a debate but hang on a minute...In Europe circumscision is only done if there is a problem....I know the US and Australia do it fairly routinely but he %s are dropping as evidence shows that there is no need to do it unless there is an issue.

Out of interest do you know how they do it? They strap the baby down (see picture here http://www.circumcision.org/SCAN2.gif) and offer no anaesthetic......need we say more????

G

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