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  #1061  
Old 14.07.2020, 15:57
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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What is that you understand?
This is why: Taken from https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-pro...t/pac-20393550

Why it's done

Circumcision is a religious or cultural ritual for many Jewish and Islamic families, as well as certain aboriginal tribes in Africa and Australia. Circumcision can also be a matter of family tradition, personal hygiene or preventive health care.

Sometimes there's a medical need for circumcision, such as when the foreskin is too tight to be pulled back (retracted) over the glans. In other cases, particularly in parts of Africa, circumcision is recommended for older boys or men to reduce the risk of certain sexually transmitted infections.

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks. However, the AAP doesn't recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns. The AAP leaves the circumcision decision up to parents — and supports use of anesthetics for infants who have the procedure.

Circumcision might have various health benefits, including:

Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. However, boys with uncircumcised penises can be taught to wash regularly beneath the foreskin.

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in males is low, but these infections are more common in uncircumcised males. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later.

Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. Circumcised men might have a lower risk of certain sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Still, safe sexual practices remain essential.

Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis can be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can lead to inflammation of the foreskin or head of the penis.

Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men. In addition, cervical cancer is less common in the female sexual partners of circumcised men.

The risks of not being circumcised, however, are not only rare, but avoidable with proper care of the penis.

Circumcision might not be an option if certain blood-clotting disorders are present. Also, circumcision might not be appropriate for premature babies who still require medical care in the hospital nursery or for babies born with abnormalities of the penis.

Circumcision doesn't affect fertility, nor is circumcision generally thought to enhance or detract from sexual pleasure for men or their partners.
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  #1062  
Old 14.07.2020, 20:10
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please]

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Many people post questions here to which answers could be found elsewhere. It is a forum, and looking for a recommendation is often what someone is looking for.

Sadly this turned into a debate, with users including yourself demonstrating a total lack of tolerance and respect for the beliefs of others.
Where does lack of tolerance begin and end?
I am not prejudging somebody who takes a knife to a child, I am judging, I don´t have to tolerate the next door nazi, I am not going to stand by and watch the guy hit a woman because his religion says she is under him.
Not all beliefs have to be respected and tolerated.
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  #1063  
Old 14.07.2020, 20:34
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please]

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Not all beliefs have to be respected and tolerated.
Absolutely! Especially when it has to do with medieval mutilating practices done by adults on non-consenting children.

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  #1064  
Old 14.07.2020, 20:47
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I did not say that. Don't misconstrue my words.
Yeah, you did. You took something completely unrelated brought it into a conversation about circumcision which hasn't got f-all to do with childbirth.

You go ahead and wag your finger in some screaming, terrified babies face and tell it how lucky it is that isn't giving birth, ok?
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  #1065  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:01
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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This is why: Taken from https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-pro...t/pac-20393550

Why it's done

Circumcision can also be a matter of .... personal hygiene or preventive health care.

....In other cases, particularly in parts of Africa, circumcision is recommended for older boys or men to reduce the risk of certain sexually transmitted infections.
...
Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. Circumcised men might have a lower risk of certain sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Still, safe sexual practices remain essential.

In the post that has become Post 1005 of this thread, I linked to a lecture given by Ryan McAllister, PhD. He is a parent, a biophysicist, and Assistant Professor of Physics and Oncology at Georgetown University.
https://youtu.be/Ceht-3xu84I
At 27:15, he talks about the claims of the medical advantages of circumcision (prevention of urinary tract infections, penile cancer, and transmission of some sexually transmitted infections, including HIV).

In particular, he points out errors in the ways in which the data were collected, with regard to testing whether or not there was any connection between circumcision and HIV infection.

In short, the methodology is ethically and procedurally unsound, and the purported conclusion (that circumcision reduces sexually contracted HIV infection) is flimsly at best. Unfortunately, it is quoted over and over again, as if it were known to be true.
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  #1066  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:02
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Why it's done:
Lets have a look at those reasons:

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Circumcision is a religious or cultural ritual for many Jewish and Islamic families, as well as certain aboriginal tribes in Africa and Australia. Circumcision can also be a matter of family tradition, personal hygiene or preventive health care.
Lots of religious and tribal traditions are abhorrent nd many have stopped. There's no reason to carry them on.

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Sometimes there's a medical need for circumcision

Then do it for the medical reason.

Some people need limbs amputated for medical reasons. Doesn't mean we should hack everyone's limbs off, does it?

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The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks.
I'd give more gravitas to the views of a medical organisation in a country where the practice in question wasn't the cultural norm.

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Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. However, boys with uncircumcised penises can be taught to wash regularly beneath the foreskin.
Are you for real?
Lets cut all childrens' hair off. That would sort out the school head lice problem and be more hygienic too.

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Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis can be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can lead to inflammation of the foreskin or head of the penis.
Occasionally men get testicular cancer - this can lead to death.

So let's cut off all males' testicles....just in case.

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Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men. In addition, cervical cancer is less common in the female sexual partners of circumcised men.
So it's rare. I know many people who have died of lung, breast, colon, prostate and other cancers but I can't recall anyone dying of, or even having penile cancer.

Breast cancer is pretty common but mastectomies are not done routinely before cancer is diagnosed.

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Circumcision doesn't affect fertility, nor is circumcision generally thought to enhance or detract from sexual pleasure for men or their partners
This one's obviously difficult to measure, for obvious reasons. Can't think why there aren't an volunteers for a trial?
(A trial wouldn't happen anyway as it would be seen to be totally unethical).


You wrote that you understand why parents get it done and provided the list above.
I read your list and I don't understand.
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  #1067  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:05
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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This one's obviously difficult to measure, for obvious reasons. Can't think why there aren't an volunteers for a trial?
(A trial wouldn't happen anyway as it would be seen to be totally unethical).
For the shockingly unethical trials with regard to trying to assess whether or not circumcision reduces HIV infection, see the lecture to which I linked, in the post immediately preceding this one.
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  #1068  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:05
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Yeah, you did. You took something completely unrelated brought it into a conversation about circumcision which hasn't got f-all to do with childbirth.

You go ahead and wag your finger in some screaming, terrified babies face and tell it how lucky it is that isn't giving birth, ok?
No, I'd make sure the doctor would follow the recommended procedure:
taken from: https://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby...-what-expect#1


If the procedure happens when your son is a newborn, he’ll be awake during his circumcision. It most likely will happen in the hospital. He’ll be placed on his back, with Velcro bands or other restraints used to keep his arms and legs still.

The doctor will clean the penis area with antiseptic, then inject an anesthetic to the base of the penis to ease the pain. Sometimes doctors apply the pain reliever as a cream instead. Your doctor will also recommend swaddling him after the procedure by wrapping him up tightly with a blanket or having him suck on a pacifier dipped in sugar water. Your baby also may be given acetaminophen for pain.


For more info, click on the above link.
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  #1069  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:07
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Circumcision is wrong.

And so is baptism.

And vaccines.

And piercings.

And anti smokers.

Tom
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  #1070  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:16
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Circumcision is wrong.

And so is baptism.

And vaccines.

And piercings.

And anti smokers.

Tom
Thank you so much for your words of wisdom.

You must hate this thread as there's no groan button function.
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  #1071  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:22
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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No, I'd make sure the doctor would follow the recommended procedure:
taken from: https://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby...-what-expect#1


If the procedure happens when your son is a newborn, he’ll be awake during his circumcision. It most likely will happen in the hospital. He’ll be placed on his back, with Velcro bands or other restraints used to keep his arms and legs still.

The doctor will clean the penis area with antiseptic, then inject an anesthetic to the base of the penis to ease the pain. Sometimes doctors apply the pain reliever as a cream instead. Your doctor will also recommend swaddling him after the procedure by wrapping him up tightly with a blanket or having him suck on a pacifier dipped in sugar water. Your baby also may be given acetaminophen for pain.


For more info, click on the above link.
Are you just going to continue copy pasting irrelevant crap when you get confronted on your dumb comparisons? Because honestly, everyone in this thread has read the shit you're posting a thousand times before and 1. it's inaccurate and 2. you still went ahead and compared circumcision to childbirth for absolutely no reason.
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  #1072  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:26
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Are you just going to continue copy pasting irrelevant crap when you get confronted on your dumb comparisons? Because honestly, everyone in this thread has read the shit you're posting a thousand times before and 1. it's inaccurate and 2. you still went ahead and compared circumcision to childbirth for absolutely no reason.
It's nice to know that some people can calmly and objectively discuss a sensitive issue.
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  #1073  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:44
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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It's nice to know that some people can calmly and objectively discuss a sensitive issue.
Well I'm calmly and objectively waiting for you to explain your harebrained comparison but I think I'll be calmly and objectively be waiting a while.

Last edited by Principia Discordia; 15.07.2020 at 07:22.
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  #1074  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:47
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

If circumcision was a necessity in our evolution over hundreds of thousands of years, will be losing the foreskin automatically, but it still there for a reason, as to protect the penis head to not get dry, my suggestion is to keep as we were born.
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  #1075  
Old 14.07.2020, 21:53
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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If circumcision was a necessity in our evolution over hundreds of thousands of years, will be losing the foreskin automatically, but it still there for a reason, as to protect the penis head to not get dry, my suggestion is to keep as we were born.
Unfortunately most of the people who believe that circumcision is necessary are also the people that don't 'believe' in evolution.
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  #1076  
Old 14.07.2020, 22:18
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Are you just going to continue copy pasting irrelevant crap when you get confronted on your dumb comparisons? Because honestly, everyone in this thread has read the shit you're posting a thousand times before and 1. it's inaccurate and 2. you still went ahead and compared circumcision to childbirth for absolutely no reason.
Just imagine if I compared the miracle of giving birth to the biological miracle that is taking a shit, and I’ve taken some painful shits in my life.
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  #1077  
Old 14.07.2020, 23:05
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Well I'm calmly and objectively waiting for you to explain your harebrained comparison but I think I'll be calmly and objectively waiting a while.
I'm quite baffled too.
Is it less painful to give birth when you've been knocked up by a circumsized guy?
As a woman often gives birth several times, should a bit be chopped off the guys for each birth? And should the parents also decide how many children the son will have and have the according size chopped off? And what if the son dares to make his own decisions and has less children?

And don't tell me I'm silly. I didn't make the comparison. I'm just trying to find the Solomonian solution.
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  #1078  
Old 14.07.2020, 23:27
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Unfortunately most of the people who believe that circumcision is necessary are also the people that don't 'believe' in evolution.
Excellent répartie *thumbs up*
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  #1079  
Old 14.07.2020, 23:44
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Sometimes vocabulary obfuscates. Too often, the foreskin is spoken of as if it were a separate piece of the body from the penis.
  • The foreskin is not a skin hanging off beyond the end of the penis.
  • The foreskin is an integral part of the penis.
  • And it, like each other part of the penis, has its purpose and functions.
To too many ears, the word "circumcision" sounds medical and clean. Were it substituted by its literal meaning "cut around", that might help some who still don't understand get closer to reality. I think that some parents, including many who might be pro-circumcision, would be shocked if they were asked, not:
  • Would you like to have your son circumcised?
but instead,
  • Would you like to have your son cut? or:
  • Would you like your boy to have a cut made around a central part of his genitals? and more than that:
  • Would you like to have a part of your boy's penis cut off his body? and moreover:
  • Would you like to have a functioning, healthy, normal section of your boy's penis cut off his body and thrown away, leaving him with a painful wound?

When babies are born healthy, people coo and clap, saying how perfect those tiny little toes are, they love the way those tiny fingers curl up around an adult finger, they admire the baby's ears and soft skin, marvel at that little round bottom and delight in the fact that that little nose that already knows how to breathe and those cheeks and lips that know how to suck. All this is natural and beautiful and amazing. Would they put a knife or a scalpel onto any part of that perfection? Perhaps because that nose might get blocked, or that bottom bruised if the child grows up and falls off his bicycle? Unless there were an acute medical need, no, just no.
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  #1080  
Old 14.07.2020, 23:52
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please]

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Absolutely! Especially when it has to do with medieval mutilating practices done by adults on non-consenting children.

Maybe stupid, but it was great fun.
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