Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1101  
Old 15.07.2020, 16:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,401
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,458 Times in 6,986 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
It doesn't change the fact that the religions who consider it a requirement would kick up a stink and claim that it's religious persecution.

As you say, it's not just Jews and Muslims who have it done - there are lots of areas, like much of the US, where it's simply a cultural thing, nothing to do with religion, and in those cases it might, in the very long term, be possible to re-educate against it, with legislation if required, if there were a will to do so, but I can't see it happening any time soon.
Agree. I wonder what comes first in the eyes of the legislator though - the child's rights (e.g.physical integrity) or something else. There's a lot to debate here but I doubt there's a will to tackle this issue. And as long as people do believe there're certain benefits....(the alleged protection against STD including HIV is simply...I don't have words.)
Reply With Quote
  #1102  
Old 15.07.2020, 17:57
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,194
Groaned at 287 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 17,664 Times in 9,146 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Wow. I'm really trying to get my head around all these conflicting views
You aren't alone. These issues are conflicts of traditions, history, religion, health, ethics, etc. etc. I wouldn't ever allow it aside of a medical issue. But that is completely irrelevant - we are collectively thinking how to intelligently bring a change about and implement it, so it sticks. Shaming parents or anyone will not do it. Despite me disagreeing with the practice - I understand as olygirl posted - why it is still popular and why it is hated.

Last edited by MusicChick; 15.07.2020 at 18:15.
Reply With Quote
  #1103  
Old 16.07.2020, 08:49
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,919
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

In one of the places that I worked a 17 year old co-worker ( praktikum ) said he is planning to have his penis cut off. And he had already made plans to have it done. Crazy!!
Reply With Quote
  #1104  
Old 16.07.2020, 09:13
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,194
Groaned at 287 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 17,664 Times in 9,146 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
In one of the places that I worked a 17 year old co-worker ( praktikum ) said he is planning to have his penis cut off. And he had already made plans to have it done. Crazy!!
I thought you have to be 18 to change gender?
Reply With Quote
  #1105  
Old 16.07.2020, 11:02
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,919
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
I thought you have to be 18 to change gender?
Yes could be 18. But what a crazy mutilation at that age. No chance to reverse a dumb decision.
Reply With Quote
  #1106  
Old 16.07.2020, 11:23
Full Circle's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 277
Groaned at 185 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 902 Times in 434 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Who wants to be labeled as anti-semitic/islam etc
This is pretty much the only reason it still exisits as a practice today.
Reply With Quote
  #1107  
Old 16.07.2020, 13:26
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,712
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,415 Times in 9,939 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Yes could be 18. But what a crazy mutilation at that age. No chance to reverse a dumb decision.
UK's NHS pays to change genders & then change the person back, huge waste of taxpayers money if you ask me.
Reply With Quote
  #1108  
Old 16.07.2020, 13:32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Athenaz
Posts: 78
Groaned at 14 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 55 Times in 27 Posts
sezegnin has earned some respectsezegnin has earned some respect
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
(the alleged protection against STD including HIV is simply...I don't have words.)
Medically well established. Those are the words you are looking for.
Reply With Quote
  #1109  
Old 16.07.2020, 14:06
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 28,999
Groaned at 1,989 Times in 1,506 Posts
Thanked 34,443 Times in 16,379 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Medically well established. Those are the words you are looking for.
Exactly.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #1110  
Old 16.07.2020, 14:24
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,919
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
UK's NHS pays to change genders & then change the person back, huge waste of taxpayers money if you ask me.
Maybe you can explain how they change a " female " back to a male. Do they keep "the offending part" frozen for lifetime
Reply With Quote
  #1111  
Old 16.07.2020, 16:05
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,796
Groaned at 229 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 22,489 Times in 9,549 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe you can explain how they change a " female " back to a male. Do they keep "the offending part" frozen for lifetime
Same way they can't fully change a male to a fully functioing female because you can't just build ovaries and many other bits besides out of random skin and fat tissues. But they can do what they can which is already pretty impressive.
Reply With Quote
  #1112  
Old 16.07.2020, 16:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,824
Groaned at 283 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 17,430 Times in 6,128 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Maybe you can explain how they change a " female " back to a male. Do they keep "the offending part" frozen for lifetime

just google "strap on" for some ideas.
Reply With Quote
  #1113  
Old 16.07.2020, 17:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,401
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,458 Times in 6,986 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Medically well established. Those are the words you are looking for.
You think?
There are opinions and opinions on this one. I'd go with condoms any time.
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis.../human-rights/
As for "medically well established"..this is a very good article:
http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/sam...view/5384/3655
or here
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis...efits/hivaids/

Of course I can understand the religious/cultural arguments, but let's leave it at that.

Btw, would you personally engage in a dangerous/risky behaviour if you knew circumcision only reduces the risks of contacting STDs/HIV? I thought so. So this alleged benefit is neither here nor there. I think the popularisation of these studies can give a false sense of security.

Last edited by greenmount; 16.07.2020 at 18:26.
Reply With Quote
  #1114  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Athenaz
Posts: 78
Groaned at 14 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 55 Times in 27 Posts
sezegnin has earned some respectsezegnin has earned some respect
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
would you personally engage in a dangerous/risky behaviour if you knew circumcision only reduces the risks of contacting STDs/HIV?
Yes, of course. Since I am circumcised I make sure to hire at least 14 HIV-positive prostitutes every week. This allows me to be completely sure. It does get expensive but I think it's well worth it for peace of mind.
Reply With Quote
  #1115  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,824
Groaned at 283 Times in 212 Posts
Thanked 17,430 Times in 6,128 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Yes, of course. Since I am circumcised I make sure to hire at least 14 HIV-positive prostitutes every week. This allows me to be completely sure. It does get expensive but I think it's well worth it for peace of mind.

Be sure you wear a face mask.
Reply With Quote
  #1116  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:38
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,194
Groaned at 287 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 17,664 Times in 9,146 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Be sure you wear a face mask.
On what part of the body?
Reply With Quote
  #1117  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:38
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,712
Groaned at 356 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 18,415 Times in 9,939 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
You think?
There are opinions and opinions on this one. I'd go with condoms any time.
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis.../human-rights/
As for "medically well established"..this is a very good article:
http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/sam...view/5384/3655
or here
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis...efits/hivaids/

Of course I can understand the religious/cultural arguments, but let's leave it at that.

Btw, would you personally engage in a dangerous/risky behaviour if you knew circumcision only reduces the risks of contacting STDs/HIV? I thought so. So this alleged benefit is neither here nor there. I think the popularisation of these studies can give a false sense of security.
Condoms do occasionally split, about 1 in 750 times from personal experience.
Reply With Quote
  #1118  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:39
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,194
Groaned at 287 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 17,664 Times in 9,146 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Condoms do occasionally split, about 1 in 750 times from personal experience.
Stud (the 750 times, what precise figure )

You keep stats? Or you got an app for it?

Last edited by MusicChick; 17.07.2020 at 12:50.
Reply With Quote
  #1119  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,416
Groaned at 133 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 7,042 Times in 2,445 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
Condoms do occasionally split, about 1 in 750 times from personal experience.
That is a pretty good ratio, I have not kept precise numbers but can count the number of condom failures on one hand, although actual breakage of the thing was not so much an issue as it just slipping off.

Whatever the reason: Poor application technique, choosing an unsuitable size and insufficient lubrication tend to be the main culprits but if it is that rare, you must be doing ok in this regard. There is also the "off-centre re-entry at speed" that can cause breakages and of course the (hopefully no longer) popular "storing a rubber in your wallet until you may one day get a chance to use it" approach is not a good idea if you want it to actually work reliably.

Regardless: Better to have a bit of a panic once in a blue moon with the knowledge that you did the necessary than a constant niggling dread and being aware that you have only yourself to blame if it goes wrong, no?
Reply With Quote
  #1120  
Old 17.07.2020, 13:03
squeezethecroc's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Wallis
Posts: 147
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 201 Times in 99 Posts
squeezethecroc has earned the respect of manysqueezethecroc has earned the respect of manysqueezethecroc has earned the respect of many
Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think circumcision without a medical indication is ever advisable,
but if you're going to have it done, then straight after birth is the worst
possible time.

a) you have to separate the foreskin from the glans (think of
removing your thumbnails only more painful). This also results in
adhesions, skin tags and skin bridges. If you wait a few years,
then the foreskin separates naturally.
b) it's smaller so more chance of a seriously botched job. It's very very
rare, but baby boys do occasionally die and suffer amputation because of
circumcision. (google "David Reimer" and read about his/her story if you
don't know what I'm talking about).
c) general anaesthetic is more dangerous for a newborn, so is never
used for circumcision which means it hurts more. Watch a video of
an operation if you don't know how much it hurts.
They scream their little heads off. Just because babies don't remember, it
doesn't mean it hasn't affected them. They have more problems
breastfeeding, and also show more reaction to injections years later.
d) newborns don't have much of an immune system, so they can die of
things that are harmless to adults or older children. A baby died
after circumcision in New York recently of the coldsore virus for
instance, and another got brain damage. Babies are more vulnerable
generally - a baby died 15 minutes after being circumcised in
London, UK about a year ago of apparent heart failure.
e) a newborn can't tell you if he actually wants to have the most
sensitive part of his penis removed or not. It's HIS body after all.

Medical reasons to be circumcised are very rare btw, but almost unheard
of in boys under ten.

If my son wants to be circumcised when he's 18, I'll pay for it, and help
him find the best surgeon in town, but until then, I'd rather leave him the
way he is.

I asked my son (aged 27) how he would feel if I had had him circumcised when he was a baby. "Very, very pissed off," he said. "It wouldn't have been your call to mess with my body, unless there'd been some serious medical reasons."

"What if I'd done it for religious reasons?"
"Just because millions of people do the same thing doesn't mean they're right. Just look at the followers of, say, Hitler, Mussolini, pretty much any leader of any religious cult. Like you always said, question everything."
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Circumcision in Switzerland [info ONLY please] wheels Family matters/health 67 15.07.2020 09:23
The Wrong Word(s) [non-native speaker slip-ups] Lob Language corner 218 29.03.2011 13:36
We were all wrong, cars and polution aren't the problem. TEXANSinNJ General off-topic 13 05.01.2008 16:16
Is it wrong to snigger at what your child is doing? Zug bound General off-topic 10 09.11.2007 22:11
What Time is It - Forum Timestamp wrong ! Guest Forum support 1 21.09.2007 16:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0