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  #1101  
Old 15.07.2020, 16:54
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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It doesn't change the fact that the religions who consider it a requirement would kick up a stink and claim that it's religious persecution.

As you say, it's not just Jews and Muslims who have it done - there are lots of areas, like much of the US, where it's simply a cultural thing, nothing to do with religion, and in those cases it might, in the very long term, be possible to re-educate against it, with legislation if required, if there were a will to do so, but I can't see it happening any time soon.
Agree. I wonder what comes first in the eyes of the legislator though - the child's rights (e.g.physical integrity) or something else. There's a lot to debate here but I doubt there's a will to tackle this issue. And as long as people do believe there're certain benefits....(the alleged protection against STD including HIV is simply...I don't have words.)
  #1102  
Old 15.07.2020, 17:57
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Wow. I'm really trying to get my head around all these conflicting views
You aren't alone. These issues are conflicts of traditions, history, religion, health, ethics, etc. etc. I wouldn't ever allow it aside of a medical issue. But that is completely irrelevant - we are collectively thinking how to intelligently bring a change about and implement it, so it sticks. Shaming parents or anyone will not do it. Despite me disagreeing with the practice - I understand as olygirl posted - why it is still popular and why it is hated.

Last edited by MusicChick; 15.07.2020 at 18:15.
  #1103  
Old 16.07.2020, 08:49
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

In one of the places that I worked a 17 year old co-worker ( praktikum ) said he is planning to have his penis cut off. And he had already made plans to have it done. Crazy!!
  #1104  
Old 16.07.2020, 09:13
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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In one of the places that I worked a 17 year old co-worker ( praktikum ) said he is planning to have his penis cut off. And he had already made plans to have it done. Crazy!!
I thought you have to be 18 to change gender?
  #1105  
Old 16.07.2020, 11:02
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I thought you have to be 18 to change gender?
Yes could be 18. But what a crazy mutilation at that age. No chance to reverse a dumb decision.
  #1106  
Old 16.07.2020, 11:23
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Who wants to be labeled as anti-semitic/islam etc
This is pretty much the only reason it still exisits as a practice today.
  #1107  
Old 16.07.2020, 13:26
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Yes could be 18. But what a crazy mutilation at that age. No chance to reverse a dumb decision.
UK's NHS pays to change genders & then change the person back, huge waste of taxpayers money if you ask me.
  #1108  
Old 16.07.2020, 13:32
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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(the alleged protection against STD including HIV is simply...I don't have words.)
Medically well established. Those are the words you are looking for.
  #1109  
Old 16.07.2020, 14:06
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Medically well established. Those are the words you are looking for.
Exactly.

Tom
  #1110  
Old 16.07.2020, 14:24
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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UK's NHS pays to change genders & then change the person back, huge waste of taxpayers money if you ask me.
Maybe you can explain how they change a " female " back to a male. Do they keep "the offending part" frozen for lifetime
  #1111  
Old 16.07.2020, 16:05
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Maybe you can explain how they change a " female " back to a male. Do they keep "the offending part" frozen for lifetime
Same way they can't fully change a male to a fully functioing female because you can't just build ovaries and many other bits besides out of random skin and fat tissues. But they can do what they can which is already pretty impressive.
  #1112  
Old 16.07.2020, 16:11
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Maybe you can explain how they change a " female " back to a male. Do they keep "the offending part" frozen for lifetime

just google "strap on" for some ideas.
  #1113  
Old 16.07.2020, 17:50
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Medically well established. Those are the words you are looking for.
You think?
There are opinions and opinions on this one. I'd go with condoms any time.
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis.../human-rights/
As for "medically well established"..this is a very good article:
http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/sam...view/5384/3655
or here
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis...efits/hivaids/

Of course I can understand the religious/cultural arguments, but let's leave it at that.

Btw, would you personally engage in a dangerous/risky behaviour if you knew circumcision only reduces the risks of contacting STDs/HIV? I thought so. So this alleged benefit is neither here nor there. I think the popularisation of these studies can give a false sense of security.

Last edited by greenmount; 16.07.2020 at 18:26.
  #1114  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:16
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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would you personally engage in a dangerous/risky behaviour if you knew circumcision only reduces the risks of contacting STDs/HIV?
Yes, of course. Since I am circumcised I make sure to hire at least 14 HIV-positive prostitutes every week. This allows me to be completely sure. It does get expensive but I think it's well worth it for peace of mind.
  #1115  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:25
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Yes, of course. Since I am circumcised I make sure to hire at least 14 HIV-positive prostitutes every week. This allows me to be completely sure. It does get expensive but I think it's well worth it for peace of mind.

Be sure you wear a face mask.
  #1116  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:38
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Be sure you wear a face mask.
On what part of the body?
  #1117  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:38
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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You think?
There are opinions and opinions on this one. I'd go with condoms any time.
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis.../human-rights/
As for "medically well established"..this is a very good article:
http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/sam...view/5384/3655
or here
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcis...efits/hivaids/

Of course I can understand the religious/cultural arguments, but let's leave it at that.

Btw, would you personally engage in a dangerous/risky behaviour if you knew circumcision only reduces the risks of contacting STDs/HIV? I thought so. So this alleged benefit is neither here nor there. I think the popularisation of these studies can give a false sense of security.
Condoms do occasionally split, about 1 in 750 times from personal experience.
  #1118  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:39
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Condoms do occasionally split, about 1 in 750 times from personal experience.
Stud (the 750 times, what precise figure )

You keep stats? Or you got an app for it?

Last edited by MusicChick; 17.07.2020 at 12:50.
  #1119  
Old 17.07.2020, 12:54
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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Condoms do occasionally split, about 1 in 750 times from personal experience.
That is a pretty good ratio, I have not kept precise numbers but can count the number of condom failures on one hand, although actual breakage of the thing was not so much an issue as it just slipping off.

Whatever the reason: Poor application technique, choosing an unsuitable size and insufficient lubrication tend to be the main culprits but if it is that rare, you must be doing ok in this regard. There is also the "off-centre re-entry at speed" that can cause breakages and of course the (hopefully no longer) popular "storing a rubber in your wallet until you may one day get a chance to use it" approach is not a good idea if you want it to actually work reliably.

Regardless: Better to have a bit of a panic once in a blue moon with the knowledge that you did the necessary than a constant niggling dread and being aware that you have only yourself to blame if it goes wrong, no?
  #1120  
Old 17.07.2020, 13:03
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Re: Circumcision: right or wrong?

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I don't think circumcision without a medical indication is ever advisable,
but if you're going to have it done, then straight after birth is the worst
possible time.

a) you have to separate the foreskin from the glans (think of
removing your thumbnails only more painful). This also results in
adhesions, skin tags and skin bridges. If you wait a few years,
then the foreskin separates naturally.
b) it's smaller so more chance of a seriously botched job. It's very very
rare, but baby boys do occasionally die and suffer amputation because of
circumcision. (google "David Reimer" and read about his/her story if you
don't know what I'm talking about).
c) general anaesthetic is more dangerous for a newborn, so is never
used for circumcision which means it hurts more. Watch a video of
an operation if you don't know how much it hurts.
They scream their little heads off. Just because babies don't remember, it
doesn't mean it hasn't affected them. They have more problems
breastfeeding, and also show more reaction to injections years later.
d) newborns don't have much of an immune system, so they can die of
things that are harmless to adults or older children. A baby died
after circumcision in New York recently of the coldsore virus for
instance, and another got brain damage. Babies are more vulnerable
generally - a baby died 15 minutes after being circumcised in
London, UK about a year ago of apparent heart failure.
e) a newborn can't tell you if he actually wants to have the most
sensitive part of his penis removed or not. It's HIS body after all.

Medical reasons to be circumcised are very rare btw, but almost unheard
of in boys under ten.

If my son wants to be circumcised when he's 18, I'll pay for it, and help
him find the best surgeon in town, but until then, I'd rather leave him the
way he is.

I asked my son (aged 27) how he would feel if I had had him circumcised when he was a baby. "Very, very pissed off," he said. "It wouldn't have been your call to mess with my body, unless there'd been some serious medical reasons."

"What if I'd done it for religious reasons?"
"Just because millions of people do the same thing doesn't mean they're right. Just look at the followers of, say, Hitler, Mussolini, pretty much any leader of any religious cult. Like you always said, question everything."
 




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