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Old 24.12.2007, 21:59
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Circumcision: right or wrong?

I don't think circumcision without a medical indication is ever advisable,
but if you're going to have it done, then straight after birth is the worst
possible time.

a) you have to separate the foreskin from the glans (think of
removing your thumbnails only more painful). This also results in
adhesions, skin tags and skin bridges. If you wait a few years,
then the foreskin separates naturally.
b) it's smaller so more chance of a seriously botched job. It's very very
rare, but baby boys do occasionally die and suffer amputation because of
circumcision. (google "David Reimer" and read about his/her story if you
don't know what I'm talking about).
c) general anaesthetic is more dangerous for a newborn, so is never
used for circumcision which means it hurts more. Watch a video of
an operation if you don't know how much it hurts.
They scream their little heads off. Just because babies don't remember, it
doesn't mean it hasn't affected them. They have more problems
breastfeeding, and also show more reaction to injections years later.
d) newborns don't have much of an immune system, so they can die of
things that are harmless to adults or older children. A baby died
after circumcision in New York recently of the coldsore virus for
instance, and another got brain damage. Babies are more vulnerable
generally - a baby died 15 minutes after being circumcised in
London, UK about a year ago of apparent heart failure.
e) a newborn can't tell you if he actually wants to have the most
sensitive part of his penis removed or not. It's HIS body after all.

Medical reasons to be circumcised are very rare btw, but almost unheard
of in boys under ten.

If my son wants to be circumcised when he's 18, I'll pay for it, and help
him find the best surgeon in town, but until then, I'd rather leave him the
way he is.
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Old 24.12.2007, 22:12
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

What's the big deal? Circumcision is very common in the US, and being American I, like millions of others, "shed my skin" right after birth and suffered no ill effects. I do not know if it is still common practice in the US, and I think in Europe it is rarely done. There are pro's and con's to most medical procedures, one of the con's of not circumcising is when the foreskin is too tight, resulting in a painful erection, circumcision is the only cure in this case. People have died during the most simple, common, and routine of operations, so citing a few examples where the operation was botched is not representative of the risks as a whole.
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Old 24.12.2007, 23:31
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

The big deal is that the bit that gets cut off is actually the most sensitive part of the penis. It's not just there to protect the glans. I know that being circed doesn't stop men from having great sex lives, but I think it should be their choice. Very few intact men (in Europe or the USA) choose to be circumcised, and some of the ones that do regret it.

The circumcision rate in the US is about 56%, but on the way down, partly due to demographics. It used to be about 90%. It still is around 90% in the mid-west, but only around 30% in California, and not much higher on the east coast. Australia's circ rate has dropped from over 90% in 1950 to 12.5% now, and the Australian Medical Association is talking about banning non-religious circumcision, unless there's a specific medical reason. (even though most of their doctors are either circed themselves, or married to circumcised men)

Phimosis (a tight foreskin) can almost always be treated without circumcision, but even if it needs to be done, it's still better to have it done later than earlier. Only about one in 160 males in the UK need to be circed for medical reasons, so if 160 babies are circumcised, then one might have needed it anyway later on, but that still leaves 159 who had it done unnecessarily.

I can't stop you from having your son circumcised, but I really think you should give him the choice when he's older, and I think doing it right after birth is the worst time to do it. I just can't see a downside to waiting.

You might want to look at a video of the operation first.

I think some mohelim will circumcise gentiles btw, but personally, I'd prefer a paediatrician to do it (some mohelim are both). The males in the UK royal family used to be circumcised by a mohel. Prince Charles and his brothers were circumcised, but Princes William and Harry are not.
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Old 25.12.2007, 00:15
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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What's the big deal? Circumcision is very common in the US, and being American I, like millions of others, "shed my skin" right after birth and suffered no ill effects. I do not know if it is still common practice in the US, and I think in Europe it is rarely done. There are pro's and con's to most medical procedures, one of the con's of not circumcising is when the foreskin is too tight, resulting in a painful erection, circumcision is the only cure in this case. People have died during the most simple, common, and routine of operations, so citing a few examples where the operation was botched is not representative of the risks as a whole.
Hello, Your signature says you are very concerned about climate crisis which takes about a few hundred years to take effect even if we all believe in human involvement in it, but want to put a kid to circumcision

It does affect a great deal, although not life threatening when you do it on child birth.

Last edited by vishi; 25.12.2007 at 00:18. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 25.12.2007, 12:13
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Hello, Your signature says you are very concerned about climate crisis which takes about a few hundred years to take effect even if we all believe in human involvement in it, but want to put a kid to circumcision
Words fail me...
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Old 25.12.2007, 12:24
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

Circumsicion should be banned unless for medical reasons. No ifs and buts for religious reasons either. If your god wanted the kid to be without foreskin then he would have created the kid without one. The ignorance and dumbness of humans constantly amazes me.
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Old 25.12.2007, 12:39
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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If your god wanted the kid to be without foreskin then he would have created the kid without one.

I don't disagree with your overall sentiment but... Appendix, tonsils, wisdom teeth, etc...
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Old 25.12.2007, 14:00
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Circumsicion should be banned unless for medical reasons. No ifs and buts for religious reasons either. If your god wanted the kid to be without foreskin then he would have created the kid without one. The ignorance and dumbness of humans constantly amazes me.
You seem to have "issues" with this topic (hence the continuous groaning).... I don't want to digress into what these issues might be, but I can guess.
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Old 01.08.2010, 19:23
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

If your god wanted the kid to be without foreskin then he would have created the kid without one. The ignorance and dumbness of humans constantly amazes me. IF YOUVE GOT A UNI DEGREE, WHY DID YOU GO TO SUCH EFFORT? GOING BY YOUR LOGIC, GOD CREATED YOU WITHOUT IT!
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Old 25.08.2010, 01:28
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Circumsicion should be banned unless for medical reasons. No ifs and buts for religious reasons either. If your god wanted the kid to be without foreskin then he would have created the kid without one. The ignorance and dumbness of humans constantly amazes me.
I second that...it's still genital mutilation and a very primitive 'tradition' !
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Old 25.12.2007, 08:09
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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My wife and I are expecting a son in a few months and, after having considered the options, we would like to have him circumcised. I know it is quite common to do in the US soon after birth, but not very common here. Obviously, we will talk with the pediatrician about it, but I was wondering if anyone who has gone through this experience in Switzerland has some good advice. Also, specific recommendations for the Lausanne area (such as doctors) would be appreciated. I should note that neither of us is Jewish, so having it performed by a rabbi is not a possibility.
Thanks!
Ask yourself this: If you were expecting a daughter would you want her to go through the same genital mutilation? You are expecting a perfect, healthy, beautiful baby boy.

Why do you want to change what Mother Nature made so perfect?

When our beautiful son was born we were so overjoyed at how perfect he was we couldn't have considered for one minute changing that by cutting bits off him. Obviously, if there had been a serious medical reason for changing any part of him we would have agreed straight away but, seeing your reasons for circumcision are not religious, rather cultural, I would advise you to wait until you see your newborn son before making your mind up.

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 25.12.2007 at 08:56.
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Old 04.01.2008, 01:59
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Ask yourself this: If you were expecting a daughter would you want her to go through the same genital mutilation? You are expecting a perfect, healthy, beautiful baby boy.

Why do you want to change what Mother Nature made so perfect?

When our beautiful son was born we were so overjoyed at how perfect he was we couldn't have considered for one minute changing that by cutting bits off him. Obviously, if there had been a serious medical reason for changing any part of him we would have agreed straight away but, seeing your reasons for circumcision are not religious, rather cultural, I would advise you to wait until you see your newborn son before making your mind up.
Thank goodness, I am not "abnormal" for not having my son circumcised, I thought I was the only mother in the US for not having done so. I was critizised by many here in the US and started to feel terrible, but it seems in Europe it is just fine leaving our boys the way they were born.
When I was asked by the doctor in the hospital if I would like the procedure done, I thought "Is he crazy, what for?"
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Old 26.12.2007, 15:22
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Could I start a thread about where I could get my daughter circumcised (FGM) without anyone voicing their opinion? I know it's not exactly same as male circumcision but if my culture/religion/yadda yadda would allow FGM then would you refrain from passing value judgement and allow people to PM me the relevant butcher's contact details? Why be judgemental right?

FGM is illegal but it does happen in secret in Switzerland as well.
Let's link two unrelated issues by using the word 'circumcision'. Female Circumcision is a completely different issue to male circumcision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision
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Old 26.12.2007, 16:02
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Let's link two unrelated issues by using the word 'circumcision'. Female Circumcision is a completely different issue to male circumcision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision
Ummm! and where exactly did I say male and female circumcision were exactly same? Which part of "I know it's not exactly same as male circumcision " did you not understand? I guess you missed my point completely. I was saying that on a public forum when someone starts a thread about a controversial subject then one has to be prepared to get all kinds of views. You can't play the "thread hijack" card.

To further demonstrate my point I mentioned FGM. Meaning that if I started a thread asking purely the contact details of a person who carried the FGM procedure then would opponents of FGM be wrong to voice their opinion on that thread? Would they be classed as "thread hijackers" as well?
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Old 26.12.2007, 16:21
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

Of course you would get opinions about FGM because its ILLEGAL!!!!! Male circumcision IN THIS THREAD had nothing to do with religion or stopping a person from having sex. Male circumcision is widely practised with some health benefits and it is completely up to parents whether they want to do this or not. This family has decided on having their son circumcised, and who are you to tell them that they are wrong if all they asked was for advice on a legal medical procedure?

Last edited by dwilkinson; 26.12.2007 at 16:33.
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Old 26.12.2007, 17:01
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Of course you would get opinions about FGM because its ILLEGAL!!!!!
Yes like I said illegal does not = does not happen. Smoking pot is illegal but I see threads about it as well. Meaning get over the legal illegal crap and use common sense.

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Male circumcision IN THIS THREAD had nothing to do with religion or stopping a person from having sex.
Are you the thread author? The person said he is not Jewish so he could very well be Muslim or Christian but wanting the chopping to be done by a doc. The opening post can be interpreted in many ways.
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Male circumcision is widely practised with some health benefits and it is completely up to parents whether they want to do this or not.
Do you see me holding a gun to the parents head? FGM is widely practised as well and does not stop the female from having actual sex. Enjoying sex is another matter. Male circumcision does effect sexual life like female circumcision but it does like my friend said.

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This family has decided on having their son circumcised, and who are you to tell them that they are wrong if all they asked was for advice on a legal medical procedure?
Just someone expressing my opinion so deal with it. Would you use the same logic with FGM if you were living in a country where FGM was not illegal?

Off to a party so happy arguing. I am done with this thread
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Old 26.12.2007, 19:56
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Off to a party so happy arguing. I am done with this thread
IMHO That's the best posting you've done in this thread so far, thanx. Have a good party, and please stop groaning at people just because they have a different opinion, they are not out to insult you or anyone else.
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Old 20.04.2009, 21:35
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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who are you to tell them that they are wrong if all they asked was for advice on a legal medical procedure?
Look at the title of this thread, and you'll know that being a user of this forum is enough.
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Old 26.12.2007, 16:34
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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Has anyone asked for opinion in this thread? There are plenty of threads for disscusions and if its not enough, create your own one.
What I mean to say is that is not a paid-for service delivering uniquely what has been asked for. Go into a bar and ask a bunch of random people "Hey, where can I circumcise my child?" and see whether you get a balanced "Sure, call Mr. XYZ at such and such number". Sure, noise-to-information ratio should be kept at a minimal level, but on the other hand once people will get over the illusion that a forum is uniquely a manned google, they'll fare much better.

For an anti-useless discussion advocate you certainly seem to be adding fuel to the fire though.
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Old 26.12.2007, 16:41
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Re: Circumcision in Switzerland

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For an anti-useless discussion advocate you certainly seem to be adding fuel to the fire though.
Im not against discussions, its just that people give their opinions on topics like 'circumcision' when the post asks for advice. Also rythmical remedy is just getting on my t**ts
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