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  #41  
Old 06.02.2016, 01:35
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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Yeah, that's tragic... as is the loss of the '‽'.
The worst!

Keeping it all in context, she bangs‽
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  #42  
Old 06.02.2016, 08:42
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

http://grammar.about.com/od/punctuat...tmatters07.htm
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  #43  
Old 06.02.2016, 17:22
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

Now this would be a fun change to the spelling of oiseau.
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Last edited by Belgianmum; 06.02.2016 at 18:09.
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  #44  
Old 06.02.2016, 17:28
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

LOL- but just don't get that one either. In French it is pronounced 'un noizo' not 'wazo'??
And 'deux zoizos'

The circonflexe was actually introduced in a previous reform, to get rid of the 's' from Latin

'nostre' became 'nôtre'
'maistre' = 'maître

Plus ça change, etc.
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  #45  
Old 06.02.2016, 18:52
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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LOL- but just don't get that one either. In French it is pronounced 'un noizo' not 'wazo'??
And 'deux zoizos'

The circonflexe was actually introduced in a previous reform, to get rid of the 's' from Latin

'nostre' became 'nôtre'
'maistre' = 'maître

Plus ça change, etc.
'Un wazo' is more accurate than 'un noizo' — firstly, the 'n' sound occurs only once as a sort of conjunction between the article and the noun, whereas you have it twice, and secondly, 'wazo' (read in the English way) is phonetically correct (and that's the joke here) but 'noizo' implies a French pronunciation rendered in English as 'noyzo'... if you catch my drift.

Oh, and you just reminded me with "Plus ça change" — when will the cedilla be banned from French?!
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  #46  
Old 06.02.2016, 18:57
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

LOL, nope. I said it many times in my head before I wrote the post.
In French, as we are talking about French here, aren't we- we say 'un noizo' and 'deux zoizos' and not 'un wazo' !?! Are you perchance a native French speaker?
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  #47  
Old 06.02.2016, 19:01
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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'Un wazo' is more accurate than 'un noizo' — firstly, the 'n' sound occurs only once as a sort of conjunction between the article and the noun, whereas you have it twice, and secondly, 'wazo' (read in the English way) is phonetically correct...
I started to read this post and wondered what odd language was being discussed.
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  #48  
Old 06.02.2016, 19:37
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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I started to read this post and wondered what odd language was being discussed.
Odd indeed — it's French, after all.

Odile, no French speaker pronounces two 'n' sounds in "un oiseau". Sorry, but you don't get the point of this discussion about rendering French phonetically.
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  #49  
Old 06.02.2016, 19:44
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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LOL, nope. I said it many times in my head before I wrote the post.
In French, as we are talking about French here, aren't we- we say 'un noizo' and 'deux zoizos' and not 'un wazo' !?! Are you perchance a native French speaker?
In addition to my comment above — the 'wazo' meme is a joke. An English joke. Since when would any French speaker use the letter W in phonetic spelling of a French word? W is not a 'native' French letter. It's used in French only in loan words and some regional/dialectical terms.
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  #50  
Old 06.02.2016, 19:46
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

LOL again- yes I do get it. It is a 'liaison' with the n- and of course there is only one 'n' sound- but it is definitely not a 'w' but and 'n' liaison. Put 2 'n's because I can't find a way to render the liaison. Said it again and again in my head and aloud, and there is no 'w' anywhere! Believe me or not, I don't truly care

There was no indication in BM's post that it was an 'English' joke... if it was, then so be it.
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  #51  
Old 06.02.2016, 19:48
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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LOL, nope. I said it many times in my head before I wrote the post.
In French, as we are talking about French here, aren't we- we say 'un noizo' and 'deux zoizos' and not 'un wazo' !?! Are you perchance a native French speaker?
But you're looking at it as a native French speaker.
Un noizo just sounds so wrong to a native English speaker and most people I know would say wazo.
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  #52  
Old 06.02.2016, 19:51
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

And 'un wazo' sounds totally wrong to anyone who speaks French correctly. If it was meant as a joke about poor or bad pronunciation by Brits- then I'll go with it- and even find it funny
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  #53  
Old 06.02.2016, 20:11
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

Who wants to speak French correctly? This is the English Forum and I cannot imagine a native English speaking person pronouncing 'Oi' as 'wa'.
Oi mate! Don't spoil it by putting oil on the coil. Use ointment, or boil the soil. Foiled again after all your toil.
Wazo wins!
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  #54  
Old 06.02.2016, 20:36
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

Great, I'll laugh with you.

So let's have

un warbre
un w(h)omme
un worifice
un wâne
un wan



Ahaha I found the original example- and there it does work

Un bel oiseau = un bel wazo! Yes - that is it.

Last edited by Odile; 06.02.2016 at 22:18.
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  #55  
Old 07.02.2016, 00:02
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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Great, I'll laugh with you.

So let's have

un warbre
un w(h)omme
un worifice
un wâne
un wan



Ahaha I found the original example- and there it does work

Un bel oiseau = un bel wazo! Yes - that is it.
But... why? Why would you put a 'w' sound in front of arbre, homme, orifice, etc.? It just isn't there. However, it is there in oiseau. Say it out loud — you start by pursing your lips a little, as if in disapproval of this oddly foreign-sounding consonant, in just the same way as you prepare to say the English word wine.

Yes,un bel wazo. Also un wazo (with a supercharged 'n'). But not deux wazo. That's where the liaison really comes into play, and the English 'x' sound ('ks') is not what you want there.

Speaking of which, yes, liaison — thank you, I couldn't for the life of me recollect the word describing the "conjunction" of the article and noun in spoken French!
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Old 07.02.2016, 00:10
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

I thought it was just my poor French or lack of imagination. Glad to see I'm not the only who didn't get Odile's point at all.
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  #57  
Old 07.02.2016, 00:19
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

oiseau (on it's own, without article in front) does sound like 'wazo'

and with the adjective 'bel' in front, it does also sound like 'wazo'

but with the article 'un' in front, the 'n' liaises with the 'oi' and the sound turns into 'un (n)oiseau' or 'un (n)oizo.



Get it, don't get it? That's fine by me. Words are pronounced and 'liaised' differently depending on the word before- et voilà
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Old 07.02.2016, 00:42
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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oiseau (on it's own, without article in front) does sound like 'wazo'

and with the adjective 'bel' in front, it does also sound like 'wazo'

but with the article 'un' in front, the 'n' liaises with the 'oi' and the sound turns into 'un (n)oiseau' or 'un (n)oizo.



Get it, don't get it? That's fine by me. Words are pronounced and 'liaised' differently depending on the word before- et voilà
Never mind.

Gosh, it's been unseasonably warm these last few weeks, hasn't it?!
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  #59  
Old 07.02.2016, 04:32
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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oiseau (on it's own, without article in front) does sound like 'wazo'

and with the adjective 'bel' in front, it does also sound like 'wazo'

but with the article 'un' in front, the 'n' liaises with the 'oi' and the sound turns into 'un (n)oiseau' or 'un (n)oizo.



Get it, don't get it? That's fine by me. Words are pronounced and 'liaised' differently depending on the word before- et voilà
From a poem that was phonetically written out:

L'Amour est un oiseau rebelle
(L'ahmoor eht (silent T) uhn wahzo

From a site that helps with pronunciation.
http://forvo.com/word/un_oiseau/#fr

Maybe the French in Neuchatel is different.
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Old 07.02.2016, 10:31
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Re: The importance of correct grammar

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But... why? Why would you put a 'w' sound in front of arbre, homme, orifice, etc.? It just isn't there. However, it is there in oiseau. Say it out loud — you start by pursing your lips a little, as if in disapproval of this oddly foreign-sounding consonant, in just the same way as you prepare to say the English word wine.

Yes,un bel wazo. Also un wazo (with a supercharged 'n'). But not deux wazo. That's where the liaison really comes into play, and the English 'x' sound ('ks') is not what you want there.
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I thought it was just my poor French or lack of imagination. Glad to see I'm not the only who didn't get Odile's point at all.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I spent ages trying to work out what she was trying to say by randomly adding a w to the beginning of words and couldn't get it at all. I still can't.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 07.02.2016 at 11:30.
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