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  #41  
Old 11.04.2018, 23:21
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

Agree, curley, am feeling much less sceptical after reading that.
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  #42  
Old 11.04.2018, 23:23
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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I forced myself to read the article all the way to the last letter. Feeling sicker by the minute.
Well put. Me too. Exactly.

One victim is too many.
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  #43  
Old 11.04.2018, 23:29
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

I am from Philly originally and perhaps the news is somewhat slanted/biased there but I always thought he was guilty and his wife culpable based upon testimony/depositions and articles I have read. Keep in mind that this has been in the court system for a long time. Well before the "#metoo" movement. Shame on him and his wife but I gather it is another incidence of how power can corrupt. So sad on all levels...
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  #44  
Old 13.04.2018, 16:46
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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Agree, curley, am feeling much less sceptical after reading that.
But the fact that he is a person with impressive credentials and we liked him and he seemed like he couldn't have problems persuading women was a moot point all along....or should have been, in a perfect world. So there: that's another explanation for women not speaking out against this crap, fear of not being believed, even worse - ridiculed, bullied or mobbed upon revealing unpleasant things about a generally approved persona.
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Old 13.04.2018, 16:59
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

i dont mean that when a man invites woman (or vice versa) to his house at night, it in first place means anything as just that. its not a coded "yes, you can/we have a sexy time per se", that it should signal nothing to a man. but one thing i dont get: why is a woman going to Cosbys house at night and is taking a pill to relax?
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  #46  
Old 13.04.2018, 17:12
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

I normally know nothing about people who's work I enjoy, admire, what ever.
I don't research their lives, don't know who their new girlfriend is, how many times they're divorced, where they went to do what with whom ..... what ever people apparently are interested in.

I listen to their music, read their books, watch their movies, laugh about their jokes, copy their recipes ..... without knowing what they do when they are not doing their job that gives me these things.

So if these things about Cosby turn out to be true, I will be as baffled and shocked about them as I would be if he just were Mr. Meier, living in the next town.
The job he did was good. Who knows what the postman, the gardener and the car mechanic do when they go home? He'll probably never make me laugh again as I will listen to his jokes with different thoughts on my mind - but to be honest, the last video I saw - I mentioned it the other day - was already crap. And would be even if I knew nothing about the ongoing investigations.
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  #47  
Old 13.04.2018, 17:18
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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i dont mean that when a man invites woman (or vice versa) to his house at night, it in first place means anything as just that. its not a coded "yes, you can/we have a sexy time per se", that it should signal nothing to a man. but one thing i dont get: why is a woman going to Cosbys house at night and is taking a pill to relax?
For the same thing you started your argument with -
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its not a coded "yes, you can/we have a sexy time per se", that it should signal nothing to a man
Remember it happened in America and recreational pills are like drinks for Europeans. Or a joint, in some cases. Would I personally go to some VIP's house and take a pill to relax? Absolutely not. But him and the alleged victim knew each other, moreover they had a trust&friendship relation before that. And in some cases, women are just very young and naive, or plainly naive, when they accept invitations like this.

Last edited by greenmount; 13.04.2018 at 17:37.
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  #48  
Old 13.04.2018, 20:36
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

It's believable that some might have been naive enough to take a pill from "Dr Huxtable" (if one accepts the idea of an adult innocently taking a pill from a "TV doctor") but all of them? Even including Chelan Lasha (Tearful Witness Lashes Out at Bill Cosby in Court: ‘You Remember Me, Don’t You?’), with her long criminal record, including for false reporting, theft and prostitution (Histories Of Several Cosby Accusers Cast Doubt On Tales)?

The fact that the prosecution has wheeled her out, and also Janice Dickinson (Bill Cosby accuser admits concocting story for memoir, Janice Dickinson Says She Covered Up Cosby Rape In Her Memoir), makes me wonder if they're a bit desperate, though they must think these women will have the ability to convince the jury.

Scepticism levels about the original accuser rising again:

On stand, Bill Cosby's chief accuser says she wants justice

"Cosby lawyer Tom Mesereau told jurors in an opening statement on Tuesday that Constand was a pauper who stiffed roommates on bills, racked up big credit card debt and once ran a Ponzi scheme until she "hit the jackpot" in 2006, when Cosby paid her $3.4 million to settle a civil lawsuit Constand filed after the district attorney at the time dropped the case."
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  #49  
Old 13.04.2018, 22:18
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

Yeah, but this is what his lawyers want you to doubt - victim's credibility. We don't know whether those accusations are true....and even so, a rape is a rape! It's gonna be very difficult for each side to prove their allegations or innocence...but of course, it's obvious that among potential real victims there are also some desperate women seeking attention or money out of this scandal. As usual. Lol, I feel like in a class debate now. We'll see how these things will end up after all..
Was Michael Jackson found guilty a while back, I don't remember...?
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  #50  
Old 14.04.2018, 11:23
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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Remember it happened in America and recreational pills are like drinks for Europeans. ...
??

no,'recreational pills' are not like having a drinks with friends - even in wild west America
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  #51  
Old 14.04.2018, 11:57
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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??

no,'recreational pills' are not like having a drinks with friends - even in wild west America
They were in the '70s and '80s.

Ofcourse, that was in the liberal east.

Tom
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  #52  
Old 14.04.2018, 14:46
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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Yeah, but this is what his lawyers want you to doubt - victim's credibility.
Yes, that's true. They seem to have some strong ammunition, though. Here's more:

Bill Cosby's Chief Accuser Takes Stand, Says She Wants Justice

"Cosby's lawyers say Constand outlined her get-rich scheme to a Temple colleague, Marguerite Jackson. The defense plans to call Jackson as a witness and says she will testify that Constand mused about framing a celebrity before she lodged sexual abuse allegations against Cosby in 2005.

Jackson, a longtime Temple official, has said that she and Constand worked closely together, had been friends and had shared hotel rooms several times. She has said Constand once commented to her about setting up a "high-profile person" and filing suit.

On the stand Friday, Constand said she remembers having a hotel room to herself at Temple's away basketball games and did not recall ever rooming with Jackson.
"
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  #53  
Old 14.04.2018, 16:05
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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??

no,'recreational pills' are not like having a drinks with friends - even in wild west America
Ok, sorry, I exaggerated there to prove my point as to why someone would take a relaxing pill. Hope no offence was taken as none was intended. We're good, right? :=)

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Yes, that's true. They seem to have some strong ammunition, though. Here's more:

Bill Cosby's Chief Accuser Takes Stand, Says She Wants Justice

"Cosby's lawyers say Constand outlined her get-rich scheme to a Temple colleague, Marguerite Jackson. The defense plans to call Jackson as a witness and says she will testify that Constand mused about framing a celebrity before she lodged sexual abuse allegations against Cosby in 2005.

Jackson, a longtime Temple official, has said that she and Constand worked closely together, had been friends and had shared hotel rooms several times. She has said Constand once commented to her about setting up a "high-profile person" and filing suit.

On the stand Friday, Constand said she remembers having a hotel room to herself at Temple's away basketball games and did not recall ever rooming with Jackson.
"
I'm not so sure if that could constitute "strong ammunition", I think Constand's lawyers will turn this alleged friendship and subsequent confessions upside down, in and out. Or at least they should. It's not uncommon to find a witness who holds a grudge against someone for....various reasons, if not for the money. I don't know, we will see. My impression is that the defense is getting really desperate now. We'll see, but if he is guilty and will still walk free out of this.....well, it's not going to be for the first time in the history of criminal justice. This type of rape would have been difficult to prove even if she spoke out the next day after. Cosby was "smart". (not, but you get the point)
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  #54  
Old 14.04.2018, 19:58
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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Yes, that's true. They seem to have some strong ammunition, though. Here's more:
I was never interested in Cosby's personal life but this thread made me dig some more info on this case. This is an article written by someone whom he helped and who also admired Cosby. It's quite heartfelt.

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I love Bill Cosby! Honestly, that phrase may not be enough to sufficiently describe my feelings for Bill. He was my boyhood idol. His influence on my life has been profound. I owe much of who I am to Bill Cosby, so the idea of love seems to fall short of exactly how I feel. It may be that I need more than one word: Adulation! Regard! Devotedness! And yet, I remain inarticulate.

While growing up, I watched everything Bill Cosby did. My father had several of his comedy albums; I memorized them backwards and forwards. Bill was one of two comics that I imitated and memorized. Richard Pryor was the other. I owe my sense of humor to Bill Cosby. However, for me, Bill Cosby was more than a comedian. Bill was my idea of a great man – a great Black man! He was good looking, talented, smart, and he was fearless. The Cos was a ladies man, but also good father and husband – devoted to his wife and children. Bill was educated; he collected art and was fluent in jazz. After my father, Bill Cosby was the man I aspired to be. Few get an opportunity to meet their idol, much less work with them. I was blessed in that regard, and even more blessed that I found my idol as clever, kind, and brilliant as I had imagined.

In 2014 a series of accusations hit the public consciousness. A number of women stepped forward to claim that the great Bill Cosby had behaved inappropriately with them – groping, propositioning, and exposing himself. There were also a number of women who leveled far more serious accusations. These women claimed that Bill had drugged them and had sex with them while they were unconscious. On the street and in the courtroom, that is called rape.



As the story broke, I had dozens of people reach out to me asking me if the stories were true. I was low man on the totem pole. I can’t imagine how inundated with inquiries were Malcolm Jamal Warner or Phylicia Rashad. It must have been hell for them. It was no picnic for me. Everyone wanted to know if my idol was guilty.

When I joined the cast of the Cosby Show in 1989, it seemed to be common knowledge that Bill played around. When I say common knowledge, I mean that it was just something that people seemed to know without anyone saying anything. Bill sleeping around was a “fact” that, like, the air, seemed to just be. You didn’t have to see it or hear it to know that it existed.

There was also the seeming unending parade of pretty young women that streamed through the studio. In fact, that is what some of us called it – the parade. Light skinned. “Good” hair. One prettier than the next. I was 28, healthy, single, and horny as hell! You will forgive me if I wasn’t really focused on Bill during the parades.

Of course, people said things to me as if they had first-hand knowledge of Bill’s business, and maybe they did. I suspect however, that rather than eyewitness testimony, what they had was the same thing that I had: speculation and gossip. I love dish as much as the next person, but I do prefer to see with my own eyes.

I also know that men who are wealthy and powerful are always the target of gossip, lies, and slander. Hell, you don’t even have to be wealthy, powerful, or good looking. The truth is that people will lie about you just because they are bored!

Still, his infidelity to his marriage vows would not have surprised me. I don’t say that as any comment on Bill’s character. I say it only because I think it would be extremely difficult for any rich, powerful man to say, “No” every single time a woman threw herself at him. I was a scrub and the opportunities for sex that were tossed my way were numerous. I suspect that if I had been really famous and extremely wealthy, the opportunities would have increased exponentially (as would have the lies and gossip). Does any man have the fortitude to turn so much nookie down every single time? Some, perhaps. I don’t think many.

I am also of the opinion that some women who are married to prominent men strike a deal with themselves. They believe that, for men, the act of sex is removed from love. The bargain they make is that as long as their husbands continue to bring home the checks and don’t bring home any babies or diseases, they will overlook any dalliances.

So, in 1989, my attitude was that if Bill was cheating on Camille, I am fairly certain Camille knew. Hey, if everyone who claimed to know actually knew, then certainly Camille knew, and had long ago made her peace with it. At any rate, it was none of my business. I never saw Bill engage in any inappropriate behavior. I certainly never saw him drug anyone. So, all I have is the same gossip as everyone else.

As the accusations began to increase, I became increasingly disturbed. I was fairly certain that some of the women were lying through their teeth, but certainly not all of them. Discovering that the man you idolize may be a serial rapist is a bit traumatic. I don’t imagine it is anything near to the trauma of the alleged victims. Nevertheless, I found it unsettling.

I was particularly shaken the afternoon I bumped into an old friend while shopping. The controversy was at its height. The story of Bill was all over the press. I hadn’t seen this woman for many years. Back in the day, I had asked her out on a few dates, but was relegated to the friend zone so fast it made my ears wiggle. We had kept in touch for a few years, but our lives had taken different paths. Over the years, I had watched with a passive interest as her career grew, so I was excited to see her and catch up a bit.

As we spoke, I recalled that Bill had been her mentor (play father, teacher…something. I couldn’t quite recall what it was). The question popped into my head.

“Hey, do you mind if I ask you something?”

She looked at me and then asked, “Is it going to make me cry?”

I was a bit taken aback. “Well,” I stammered. “I hope it doesn’t make you cry.”

She smiled. “Go ahead and ask your question.”

“Back in the day,” I started. “I remember that you knew Bill – that he was like your mentor or something. Did he ever…”

Before I finished the sentence, she began to cry.

We spent the next two hours sitting on a bench talking. Through tears, she told me her story. She cursed him for violating both her trust and her body. She cursed herself for not being smarter, and for degrading herself in pursuit of success. I listened patiently. As she began to run out of steam, she turned to me. “Do you believe me?”

“Yes.” I said. “I believe you.”

“Why?” she asked.

“Because I don’t believe that you are crazy and only a crazy person would sit with me all this time and share a fantasy.”

I am not sure if our conversation was cathartic for her. I know it was heart-breaking for me.

As I drove home, I battled my emotions. I felt for my friend, for the violation of her trust, loyalty, and body. I was angry with Bill. He had money, fame, and power; he was a walking aphrodisiac! Why? I was also angry at myself for falling for the okey-doke, of putting Bill on a pedestal. Something changed inside me during that drive; call it the last gasp of a mocking bird.

More recently, there were a series of court documents that were unsealed and revealed a dark side to the Cos. Rather than spending his time bouncing kids on his knee and eating Jell-O brand pudding, this Bill was involved in illegal drugs and illicit sex, fornication, and perhaps more.

I’ve done a lot of thinking over these weeks. The good Bill has done over the years is real and enduring. I am not prepared to simply dismiss his brilliance, his wisdom, or his legacy. You see, all of that is a part of who I am as a man – as a Black man. I am not going to toss all of that away, at least not yet. It seems to me that one should be able to look with sober eyes and yet hold on to those elements of substance that are both true and comforting.

Over the weekend, Bill turned 78 years old. It is with all of the love I still have for him and the reverence of one who has idolized him for a lifetime that I offer this plea.

Bill, you have a family that loves you, a wife who is devoted to you; you have more money than you can spend. Please, go live a quiet country life. Allow those of us who truly love you to preserve just a bit of our enchantment.

http://josephcphillips.com/2015/07/o...sby-is-guilty/

It seems yet another Weinstein i.e. serial predator case...and the sad thing is that all those questionable attitudes he seemed not to hide from people whom he worked with were actually quite tolerated.
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  #55  
Old 14.04.2018, 20:26
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

Did Bill Cosby ever ask to be put higher than the godliest saint? Can anyone even imagine how lonely it is up there? What makes people think they can go all gooey about stars who in return must dedicate their entire lifes to their fans? And not go batshit crazy in the process?!

Nope, if the accusations are proven that is no excuse.

But for Pete's sake, "Please, go live a quiet country life. Allow those of us who truly love you to preserve just a bit of our enchantment."
Seriously?!
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  #56  
Old 15.04.2018, 09:22
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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Did Bill Cosby ever ask to be put higher than the godliest saint? Can anyone even imagine how lonely it is up there? What makes people think they can go all gooey about stars who in return must dedicate their entire lifes to their fans? And not go batshit crazy in the process?!

Nope, if the accusations are proven that is no excuse.

But for Pete's sake, "Please, go live a quiet country life. Allow those of us who truly love you to preserve just a bit of our enchantment."
Seriously?!
Normally, I would totally agree with you on this one. But Cosby wasn't just the star figure there, in many cases he also played the "mentor like father" figure, the professor, the boss figure etc for those people. The text is written by someone like that, and in his defense, he's a black male too. Cosby's huge misbehaviour is like the toughest slap in this guy's face...I don't want to get into many details as to why is that somehow justified, psychologically, but remember America was(is) not always kind with the black people (Jesus, don't even want to read the angry replies telling me there's no discrimination there, in any field etc etc and all chances are equal....I'll instantly refer them to my all-white-American friend who grew up in a small place where a few Asian families were the only "colour" and wash my hands off of silly arguments). So it's more complicated in his case, be kind.
And I guess, putting stars on that kind of pedestal could be also cultural. I guess people, put down the guns! :-) Metaphorically speaking, of course. Movie and tv stars are a big deal over there (these days "over here" too, but not to that extent). Back home you'd adore an actor or tv star from distance and if you were to get an autograph from him or her at the end of a show you'd cherish it and move on with your life. Professors or professional mentors inviting you over? Only if it was appropriated, when more people were around and it was like a dinner with friends and associates. Different shticks, different people (hope it didn't change in the meantime lol). In all honesty, I don't know how to explain this phenomenon, so I'm trying to approach it from different angles. But victims are victims, here and there, and those wounds will last a lifetime for them. A pity that some people don't live up to the hype or to the expectations...

Last edited by greenmount; 15.04.2018 at 12:56. Reason: typos
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  #57  
Old 16.04.2018, 13:51
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

Here's the guy who wrote the article you quote, greenmount:



He does seem quite persuasive, yet he says in the video that they talked in his car for two hours, whereas in his blog article he has them sitting on a bench ("We spent the next two hours sitting on a bench talking. Through tears, she told me her story."). If the conversation left such an impression on him, you'd think he would have remembered where it took place. On the other hand, perhaps it is possible that they really were sitting on a bench, but he changed the location for his TV interview in order to protect her identity in case anyone had spotted them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Phillips
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  #58  
Old 16.04.2018, 15:13
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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Here's the guy who wrote the article you quote, greenmount:



He does seem quite persuasive, yet he says in the video that they talked in his car for two hours, whereas in his blog article he has them sitting on a bench ("We spent the next two hours sitting on a bench talking. Through tears, she told me her story."). If the conversation left such an impression on him, you'd think he would have remembered where it took place. On the other hand, perhaps it is possible that they really were sitting on a bench, but he changed the location for his TV interview in order to protect her identity in case anyone had spotted them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Phillips
Glad I was not the only one who immediately noticed that.
An other thing that disturbs me is a guy going public - very public it seems - with a story of a friend he doesn't want to name. Not that I think he should name the friend but he should not crave publicity with this friend's story (if this friend exists ).


What I really dislike is the color of Bill Cosby's skin suddenly being mentioned!?! A black guy who achieved .... what ever many things he achieved .... as a first should at least behave, or what exactly is the connection?
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Old 16.04.2018, 16:59
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

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Glad I was not the only one who immediately noticed that.
An other thing that disturbs me is a guy going public - very public it seems - with a story of a friend he doesn't want to name. Not that I think he should name the friend but he should not crave publicity with this friend's story (if this friend exists ).


What I really dislike is the color of Bill Cosby's skin suddenly being mentioned!?! A black guy who achieved .... what ever many things he achieved .... as a first should at least behave, or what exactly is the connection?
I didn't see that video, neither am I ready to "vouch" for this guy's credibility. :-) I brought him up in a dialogue with Reb77 about Constand's alleged friend saying she's a fraudster. It's the same type of "strong" argument, or "strong" ammunition.

That deposition will be overlooked again and again as Cosby's (allegedly) admirer's deposition was. Nobody's colour is relevant per se, but read carefully this guy's blog (article).
In all fairness, I also believe is much harder for black people to get somewhere in the tv and movie industry. Or at least it was. So as far as I'm concerned, Cosby's skin colour was "suddenly" relevant only from this POV, but you can read other posts on this thread if you want other suppositions...;=)

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They were in the '70s and '80s.

Ofcourse, that was in the liberal east.

Tom
Hehe, that's OK, Tom. I bet it was, you naughty ;-)
I should have specified though that I'm thinking especially of a certain environment and that taking whatever-is-called pill is not so uncommon (Ambien? lol), otherwise somebody can understand a totally different thing than what I meant to say. The joys of a forum.

Btw, let's wait and see the end of the story in the media, these debates are futile anyway.

Last edited by greenmount; 16.04.2018 at 17:40. Reason: typos
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Old 16.04.2018, 17:05
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Re: 35 Victims of Bill Cosby

Is this a #metoo thread?
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