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Old 29.06.2017, 20:55
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FEABARs are coming

Not sure if this is the best place to put this as it affects people travelling to the US, but maybe a mod can move if they feel it would be better elsewhere.

US ESTA applications now ask for your social media info. Voluntary at the moment, but could become mandatory in the future.

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/06/...ge-1/#comments
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Old 29.06.2017, 21:18
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Re: FEABARs are coming

Ridiculous is the first word that comes to mind

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Old 29.06.2017, 21:26
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Re: FEABARs are coming

American policies as for entering the country have caused my wife and some other developers i know to cancel all the congresses over there they would attend as guest or speaker.

It has come to the point where it's more ridiculous then the average slap-stick movie.
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Old 29.06.2017, 21:41
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Re: FEABARs are coming

It also begs the question what stance would they take on granting you an ESTA if you don't belong to any of the social media they list? From the Politico article:

"The prompt includes a drop-down menu that lists platforms including Facebook, Google+, Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube, as well as a space for users to input their account names on those sites."

Does not having a presence on any of these make me less of a potential terrorist or more so?

Last edited by Medea Fleecestealer; 29.06.2017 at 22:22.
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Old 29.06.2017, 21:52
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Re: FEABARs are coming

As if all terrorists are on Linked-In..........
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Old 29.06.2017, 22:39
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Re: FEABARs are coming

Forget LinkÚd-in...I can see many EFers with booked holiday to Miami this summer trying to locate and remove any posts that may be construed as anti-American by monitoring CIA programmers at Quantico...
Hey Mods, great way to make a little pocket money here, charge for removal of comments...say 2.50.- a comment or 3 for 5.- after a good grovel
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Old 29.06.2017, 22:46
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Re: FEABARs are coming

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Forget LinkÚd-in...I can see many EFers with booked holiday to Miami this summer trying to locate and remove any posts that may be construed as anti-American ....
Holiday to the USA during next few years- surely not We cancelled ours as have many of our friends...
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Old 29.06.2017, 23:02
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Re: FEABARs are coming

How can it be enforceable, even if it became mandatory?
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Old 29.06.2017, 23:05
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Re: FEABARs are coming

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How can it be enforceable, even if it became mandatory?
Almost probably can't, the ones they hope to find have most certainly been set up via VPN with fake e-mail addresses and fake names.
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Old 29.06.2017, 23:15
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Re: FEABARs are coming

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How can it be enforceable, even if it became mandatory?
Easy, don't provide the info you don't get an ESTA to enter the States. And you can bet any subsequent visa application would be rejected too.

Glad we got our trip done last year. That'll probably be it for us, nothing to really go back for. Plenty of other countries we haven't visited and still a lot in the UK and Switzerland to see too.
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Old 29.06.2017, 23:27
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Re: FEABARs are coming

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Easy, don't provide the info you don't get an ESTA to enter the States. And you can bet any subsequent visa application would be rejected too.

Glad we got our trip done last year. That'll probably be it for us, nothing to really go back for. Plenty of other countries we haven't visited and still a lot in the UK and Switzerland to see too.
Create a handful of spoof profiles (Twitter, FB, LinkedIn) on the side with a seldom used email address, 10 - 12 contacts and a smattering of likes and shares of mundane shite to make it look genuine.

Many people rename their regular social media accounts with a nickname or maiden name or whatever anyway so it wouldn't be obvious, especially with the volume of people travelling to and through the US. How would they check them all?

OK so if you were caught you would be denied a visa or worse if you are found out when you are already in the US but I still think it's a foolish and clumsy approach and anyone with properly evil intentions wouldn't dream of plastering it all over regular social media to be found within three clicks.
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Old 29.06.2017, 23:28
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Re: FEABARs are coming

What this does is that they can now match social media profiles to actual passports with nearly 100% certainty.

You have to think big on this, really big.

With the social media profiles, they know your network of people you know.
They can know your past, present and future plans, your contacts' plans and the plans of the contacts of your contacts (and at least two levels more, AFAIK, according to Mr Snowden).

Even without any kind of terrorist background this is very interesting because on the very large scale that this is happening, it allows them to predict the future quite reliably (well, at least that is my pet-theory of what all this is really for).

You can think of it as a weather-forecast. Weather-forecasts work by diving the sky into small cubes and measuring temperature, pressure, humidity, wind, clouds in each one and calculating the effects each cube has on each other (at least, that's my simplified understanding of it - actual meteorologists may correct me). The smaller you make the cubes and the more often you recalculate your whole system, the more precise your forecasts get. The problem is that it equally needs exponentially more computing power to get to that state (smaller cubes), as the system is non-deterministic.

Now, if you have a remote, semi-important country like Turkey and there is political unrest, you could, e.g. by watching social media profiles (you know who is on which side) and location data, be sufficiently sure who is going to win at a very early stage.
You can generate computing-models for pretty much anything. Even social interactions.
So, if you have an event, you can take all the data you have and run your model, adjust it with more data as it comes in and recalculate.

This will require tremendous computing power, but this is not really a problem for agencies with limited budgetary oversight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center


The US can be the first to back the winner, giving them even more leverage in the future ("You owe me, buddy").

There are countless political (and even more socio-economical) scenarios where "knowing" the future can give the US a tremendous bargaining-power or just a large economical advantage.

People should also assume the large US companies can (at least) indirectly get access to this data on a case-by-case basis.

The end-result is that for most governments outside the US, negotiating a treaty with the US is in most cases a bit like playing a rigged card-game (rigged to your disadvantage).

I'm not sure politicians on either side of the pond even remotely realize what US-intelligence + FB + Google (we have to assume that by lawful interception API interfaces, US intelligence agencies can basically get everything FB+Google know about you in realtime) is capable of doing.

I truly believe that the program described in part four of the Jason Bourne series ("Iron Hand") is probably closer to reality than a lot of people would be comfortable with.

A lot of people also laughed-off "Enemy of the State" back when it came out.
Nobody is laughing anymore.


What's left to say?

Maybe: "Welcome our beloved American overlords".
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Old 29.06.2017, 23:43
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Re: FEABARs are coming

Quote:
Create a handful of spoof profiles (Twitter, FB, LinkedIn) on the side with a seldom used email address, 10 - 12 contacts and a smattering of likes and shares of mundane shite to make it look genuine.

Many people rename their regular social media accounts with a nickname or maiden name or whatever anyway so it wouldn't be obvious, especially with the volume of people travelling to and through the US. How would they check them all?

OK so if you were caught you would be denied a visa or worse if you are found out when you are already in the US but I still think it's a foolish and clumsy approach and anyone with properly evil intentions wouldn't dream of plastering it all over regular social media to be found within three clicks.

US intelligence probably has access to your complete "timeline" on FB, Twitter, even all deleted posts, tweets, likes, shares. Plus all the stuff you posted elsewhere, anywhere, at any time. Plus all the stuff you googled for. Ever.
Also, trying to "randomly" "like" something is that random in the end.

FB knows when you open another account. Unless you are really careful and go into full "Edward-J.-Snowden-paranoia-blanket-over-the-head mode". Most people won't.
They might not tell you that they think you signed up for another account and that they think they know who you really are - but sure as hell, the lawful interception API will tell the three-letter agencies just that.

You really underestimate what you can do these days with lots of data.
Why is google so good at returning matching search results? Because they know you good enough to be pretty sure about what you are really looking for.
They also know enough people good enough to know what everybody else was looking for in the end (when they stopped clicking on results).

Take a step back and think about what this means for somebody who not only has access to your google-search history, but also to your complete FB history and all the other stuff you did online. And all the stuff everybody else did everywhere else.
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Old 30.06.2017, 00:04
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Re: FEABARs are coming

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US intelligence probably has access to your complete "timeline" on FB, Twitter, even all deleted posts, tweets, likes, shares. Plus all the stuff you posted elsewhere, anywhere, at any time. Plus all the stuff you googled for. Ever.
Also, trying to "randomly" "like" something is that random in the end.

FB knows when you open another account. Unless you are really careful and go into full "Edward-J.-Snowden-paranoia-blanket-over-the-head mode". Most people won't.
They might not tell you that they think you signed up for another account and that they think they know who you really are - but sure as hell, the lawful interception API will tell the three-letter agencies just that.

You really underestimate what you can do these days with lots of data.
Why is google so good at returning matching search results? Because they know you good enough to be pretty sure about what you are really looking for.
They also know enough people good enough to know what everybody else was looking for in the end (when they stopped clicking on results).

Take a step back and think about what this means for somebody who not only has access to your google-search history, but also to your complete FB history and all the other stuff you did online. And all the stuff everybody else did everywhere else.
For me it's all a moot point because I have no desire, either professionally or for leisure, to travel to the US. So the spooks can knock themselves out on my lolcat likes and my internet searches for wedged sandals...
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