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Old 14.07.2017, 03:40
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Re: Religious school

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My kids are in secular school for their education, but attend classes at our synagogue in the US to learn Hebrew, prayers and about our religion. My oldest has one year to prepare for his bar mitzvah, so that's why I am interested in continuing their religious education. I'm not sure that we will want to travel into Zurich for this, but I am open to all suggestions.
Do your kids have any choice in this or is it you deciding for them, maybe they not interested in such a rigid education
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Old 14.07.2017, 07:39
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Religion debate (thread split )

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Do your kids have any choice in this or is it you deciding for them, maybe they not interested in such a rigid education
yes, but it is much easier to brainwash a child than an adult.
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Old 14.07.2017, 08:24
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Re: Religious school

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Do your kids have any choice in this or is it you deciding for them, maybe they not interested in such a rigid education
Always flapping your gums aren't you? Why does every question on here become a friggin' debate. The OP asked a simple question, which you CLEARLY don't know the answer to. So, for once, just butt out and zip it.
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Old 14.07.2017, 09:45
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Re: Religious school

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yes, but it is much easier to brainwash a child than an adult.
OP asked a simple question. She deservs a clear answer.

Free exercise of religion is a big thing here - and we want to keep it this way!

Knowledge about religions is general education. (Mine re Judaism lacks terribly, I noticed). The only way to refuse something is by knowing what one is actually refusig (and one can always only refuse for one-self).

OP's children will make their own decisions one day. But they'll know what they decide for/chose from.

So could we just stick to answering what we were asked for? Giving aggressive opinions about what we "think" is behind the question is not supporting Art. 15 Bundesverfassung Schweiz (federal constitution).
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Old 14.07.2017, 10:04
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Re: Religious school

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Free exercise of religion is a big thing here - and we want to keep it this way!
if a parent is finding a religious school for a child, then this is definitely not free exercise of religion for the child.

for an adult, I agree. we should i have the right to believe in whatever we want but don't push it to children.
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Old 14.07.2017, 13:07
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Re: Religious school

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if a parent is finding a religious school for a child, then this is definitely not free exercise of religion for the child.

for an adult, I agree. we should i have the right to believe in whatever we want but don't push it to children.
To be honest, I think some of you are reading way too much into "religious school". Parents send their kids to Sunday school here, I imagine. It's just like that, only for reform Jews.

Religion is a touchy subject. Some people believe, others don't. Some people want to raise their kids in their own religion. It's their business, just as raising your kids in no religion might be.

For Jews, who have such a tiny community here, especially if not Orthodox, religious education provides as much cultural as religious component. It's cool to understand this, I think, especially in a secular world.

I think it is possible to raise children in a religion without ramming it down their throats and still respecting other religions.

Religion can cause problems, obviously. But people's individual beliefs, as well as how they raise their own children are largely their own business.
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Old 14.07.2017, 13:13
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Re: Religious school

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if a parent is finding a religious school for a child, then this is definitely not free exercise of religion for the child.

for an adult, I agree. we should i have the right to believe in whatever we want but don't push it to children.
So presumably you think that never having shown your child the inside of a church, mosque or synagogue combined with never uttering anything other than condemnation for religious belief isn't brainwashing?

Or is it just a better brainwashing to your mind?
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Old 14.07.2017, 13:39
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Re: Religious school

Gotta love EF. Every single request for information about religious education, provision of religiously appropriate food or whatever always turns into a debate about how religion is the root of all horribleness in this world.

And it's we theists who get blamed for evangelising!

Don't take it personally, OP. It's just EF doing what it does.
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Old 14.07.2017, 13:46
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Re: Religious school

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Gotta love EF. Every single request for information about religious education, provision of religiously appropriate food or whatever always turns into a debate about how religion is the root of all horribleness in this world.

And it's we theists who get blamed for evangelising!

Don't take it personally, OP. It's just EF doing what it does.
Hey - not all of us atheists hold you personally responsible for the crusades; don't go trying to (implicitly) blame all of us for the vocal minority either!
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Old 14.07.2017, 16:36
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Re: Religious school

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Parents send their kids to Sunday school here, I imagine.
1. I imagine they don't. Because I never went... religion was a class in school. Already in primary school starting from grade 1. So 90% of my preparation for the first communion happened in school.

2. I love how people simply make statements like "Switzerland is a secular country". I wonder where you get this stuff from, but it simply isn't true: First of all, like everything else around here is everything depending on the canton. Geneva and Basel (-Stadt) are secular and there is a clear cut between your religion and state. In Zürich the opposite is true - the government oversees the activities of churches and in return helps finance them. Jewish organisations are at this moment non-profit private organisations, not under state oversight as the major Christian flavours.

Here is a link to the platform of liberal Jews in Switzerland... website is only in French and German... but I am sure they will point you to the nearest one in Basel: https://www.liberaljews.ch/de/home
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Old 14.07.2017, 17:03
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Re: Religious school

Is it Friday already?
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Old 14.07.2017, 17:52
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Re: Religious school

Without quoting any particular post - as my life has at times messily spread itself from my childhood-highschool years n NJ to other parts of the US and other countries that are, or have been up until the last 10-15 years as waves of migration have occurred across Europe more monotone in their culture, I am ONLY grateful for being a standby recipient of others religious education.i am often appalled at how little eg. my Swedish "relatives" know about Judaism.

Many or most of my high school friends that were practicing Jews attended Hebrew school for a few hours on the weekend in preparation for their Bat/Bar/Bas Mitzvah. Having no school on "their" holidays/observances was also nice ((-:

In this extremely secular age we leave live in where Apple is one god and Android another, is there anything wrong with exposure to these beliefs? I'd rather encounter a mature person who has adapted the way their family faith fits into their life than a happy clappy born again

Good luck with the move Becky, from where in NJ?
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Old 14.07.2017, 18:03
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Re: Religious school

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So presumably you think that never having shown your child the inside of a church, mosque or synagogue combined with never uttering anything other than condemnation for religious belief isn't brainwashing?

Or is it just a better brainwashing to your mind?
That is not how it works, even as a tooth gnashing frothing at the mouth Atheist you can take your kids to church or to a mosque no problem what so ever, it´s just not a big deal; church, mosque, synagog, temple, heck I took my daughter to Ħaġar Qim here on Malta, probably the closest she has been to a religious building in years and she hasn´t started to wail to the moon or the sun or whatever those guys prayed to.
But here is the bouncing dot; If one as a adult would regard todays religions with the same Gleichgültigkeit the tourist hordes regard Ħaġar Qim then religion has not much of a chance to gain a foothold, but would you indoctrinate a child to believe in say the flying spaghetti monster, that child will hail his noodly appendages forever without a second thought and if you have done it correctly you could probably get the child to kill somebody who believes in Russel´s teapot.
However.
Once the vicious circle of parents dragging their children to religion (something I consider child abuse btw.) is broken and the child develops a smattering of common sense then there is no way in retrospect that you can get that child to believe in the sky man.


Sorry OP but when EFers get their religion on things can get hairy, good topic for a Friday though.
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Old 14.07.2017, 18:11
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Re: Religious school

Most people on this planet are religious.

We're not going away, you know.
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Old 14.07.2017, 18:14
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Re: Religious school

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Always flapping your gums aren't you? Why does every question on here become a friggin' debate. ...
I put some of it down to an irrational knee-jerk reaction to anything that smells even slightly of religion. Perhaps due to the inculcation of a worldview forced on them as a child by anti-religious zealots of the anti-God squad, utterly convinced of the rightness of their beliefs.

But mainly I think it's because it's Friday.
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Old 14.07.2017, 18:17
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Re: Religious school

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Most people on this planet are religious.

We're not going away, you know.
True. You've been trying hard to kill each other for millenia, but never managed.
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Old 14.07.2017, 18:28
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Re: Religious school

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...
But here is the bouncing dot; If one as a adult would regard todays religions with the same Gleichgültigkeit the tourist hordes regard Ħaġar Qim then religion has not much of a chance to gain a foothold, but would you indoctrinate a child to believe in say the flying spaghetti monster, that child will hail his noodly appendages forever without a second thought and if you have done it correctly you could probably get the child to kill somebody who believes in Russel´s teapot.
However.
Once the vicious circle of parents dragging their children to religion (something I consider child abuse btw.) is broken and the child develops a smattering of common sense then there is no way in retrospect that you can get that child to believe in the sky man.
You've presumably got some empirical data to back up your belief that religious awareness leads directly to murder.

You don't have to be a nutter to tell your child "Some people find comfort in believing this, or that. Our community goes about it thus, others differently."
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Old 14.07.2017, 18:49
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Re: Religious school

Newsflash: whatever one is raised as, there comes a point in one's life where the child questions their parents' beliefs and develops his/her own, not just with regards to religion, but politics, lifestyle, etc. It's called becoming an adult.

So no point in screaming "abuse!" at a parent's desire to make their children aware of their religion and their roots, as the OP has described it. Abuse from religious nutters exists, as from non-religious nutters, and it is a crime. But it's not at all the scenario the OP is describing. The kid will make up her own mind anyway at some point on how much/how little she wants to partake.

Back on topic: OP, I see that Migwan's links have already been posted. There is also Chabad in Basel - I realize it might be a tad more tilted on the orthodox spectrum than you might like, but it is an additional reference point just in case, and I thought I'd post it.

http://www.chabadbasel.com/templates...at.htm/lang/en
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Old 14.07.2017, 20:39
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Re: Religious school

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1. I imagine they don't. Because I never went... religion was a class in school. Already in primary school starting from grade 1. So 90% of my preparation for the first communion happened in school.

I learnt at school too- the Vicar or Priest came after school - and it was totally optional

2. I love how people simply make statements like "Switzerland is a secular country". I wonder where you get this stuff from, but it simply isn't true:

it is a secular country in as much as religion is a personal and private choice. Total separation of State and religion- and total separation of Judiciary and education. Having said that, from my childhood, I know 2 (two) who went to Catholic boarding schools a long way away (1 in Fribourg, and 1 in Valais)
https://www.liberaljews.ch/de/home
so yes, separation of State, education and judiciary = secular.
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Old 14.07.2017, 20:56
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Re: Religious school

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so yes, separation of State, education and judiciary = secular.
Sorry, you are wrong. It's probably true in your part of CH, but to say it in the words of the Zurich government "Der Kanton Zürich kennt im Gegensatz etwa zu den Kantonen Genf und Basel-Stadt keine Trennung von Kirche und Staat." - the canton of Zurich does not know the separation of state and religion unlike Geneva or Basel. Source: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/portal/...u_kirchen.html
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