Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > General off-topic
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17.04.2018, 10:20
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,305
Groaned at 141 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 3,466 Times in 1,389 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

I thought this was a joke at first. The more I think about it, it almost seems like a racist insult, stereotyping black Americans in just about the worst way. Ironically, many people would likely consider this as some sort of achievement for society - 'look, black culture is being recognized!'

Kendrick Lamar wins Pulitzer Prize for music

According to the Pulitzer web site, the album: 'offers affecting vignettes capturing the complexity of modern African-American life.'
They then provide a link to a vid. of one of the songs on the album, 'DNA'

Standard bling bling ghetto gangsta rap garbage. Guns, violence, money, hoes, etc. - but with the message that's it's all inherent in the DNA (i.e, avoidance of personal and social responsibility for one's actions)

"Sex, money, murder, our DNA"

What do all of the normal, everyday, law-abiding people, black or white, think about this? Does Kendrick Lamar really 'capture the complexity of modern African-American life'? I'm sure there's bit more to most African-Americans' lives than playing dice on the street corner, selling drugs, etc. etc. - no? In reality, only a very small percentage of the population ever does those things.


Is this just a token gesture from the Pulitzer committee to try to appeal to a younger generation? To black people? To pop culture? By praising the glorification of street gangs, drug dealing, violence, etc? Are they trying to normalize thug life in the minds of young African-Americans, to keep them forever stuck in mental bondage, poverty, etc?

NSFW:
__________________
you are being programmed

Last edited by pilatus1; 17.04.2018 at 14:04. Reason: Fixed borked link, added NSFW
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17.04.2018, 10:32
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 6,209
Groaned at 68 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 6,459 Times in 3,473 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

I'll have to leave the decision about that to the black people of America.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17.04.2018, 10:43
TheWolverine's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,292 Times in 647 Posts
TheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Just because you don't like the music doesn't mean its garbage. Listen to the lyrics. Try to get the meaning behind them.
Harsh lyrics doesn't always mean they have no meaning.
Rap (RnB/Hip-hop) sometimes has strong lyrics because of the background of the artists and the environment.

But its about the sentiment.

Music, in any form, is fully capable of being utterly intense if it resonates with you.
Just because its not your thing doesn't mean its not any good.

EDIT : I re-read your post. And I think its not just about glorification of violence, drugs, gangs in any way. That is part of what life is for most black people in the US. However, that doesn't mean that any music coming out out that deserves any less credit. I guess at some point we should stop associating everything that's to do with black people with violence, oppression, token gestures and such. They're us. We are them. We are all the same in the end and music, irrespective of any of that, is music. Music doesn't know skin color. Music doesn't care about race. If its any good, I sure as hell hope it gets noticed.
__________________
"You picked the wrong house, Bub"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:10
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,305
Groaned at 141 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 3,466 Times in 1,389 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post

EDIT : I re-read your post. And I think its not just about glorification of violence, drugs, gangs in any way. That is part of what life is for most black people in the US.
......
You're joking, right? Or just unknowingly perpetuating the stereotype?

From the FBI: There are 1.4 million gang members in the US, with +/- 35% being black. Thats .5 million. Out of 40 million black Americans. One in 80. :roll eyes:

Quote:
View Post
. Music doesn't know skin color. Music doesn't care about race.
I would love if that were really the case. Check out the lyrics to his song 'The Blacker the Berry' :

"...Been feeling this way since I was 16, came to my senses
You never liked us anyway, your friendship, I meant it
I'm African-American, I'm African
I'm black as the moon, heritage of a small village
Pardon my residence
Came from the bottom of mankind
My hair is nappy, my dick is big, my nose is round and wide
You hate me don't you?
You hate my people, your plan is to terminate my culture
You're f'n evil I want you to recognize that I'm a proud monkey
You vandalize my perception but can't take style from me
And this is more than confession
I mean I might press the button just so you know my discretion
I'm guardin' my feelings, I know that you feel it
You sabotage my community, makin' a killin'
You made me a killer, emancipation of a real nigga"
__________________
you are being programmed
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17.04.2018, 11:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 6,496
Groaned at 224 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 8,212 Times in 4,428 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Some wounds will take a lot of time to heal, I think.

But OP, I don't understand the title. It's a prize decided by a committee after all, it shouldn't mean such a big deal. Some black will identify with those lyrics, most - not. If the music was considered worth of this prize - let it be. I guess, what they value more, is the courage of bringing up these aspects of life in an artistic way.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17.04.2018, 12:00
TheWolverine's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,292 Times in 647 Posts
TheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
......
You're joking, right? Or just unknowingly perpetuating the stereotype?

From the FBI: There are 1.4 million gang members in the US, with +/- 35% being black. Thats .5 million. Out of 40 million black Americans. One in 80. :roll eyes:
You're right. I should've said "a lot", not "most". Poor choice of words. My bad.
Still, one in 80 is a lot. Also, its not only the gangs. But anyhow, thats not the point.

Quote:
View Post
I would love if that were really the case. Check out the lyrics to his song 'The Blacker the Berry' :

"...Been feeling this way since I was 16, came to my senses
You never liked us anyway, your friendship, I meant it
I'm African-American, I'm African
I'm black as the moon, heritage of a small village
Pardon my residence
Came from the bottom of mankind
My hair is nappy, my dick is big, my nose is round and wide
You hate me don't you?
You hate my people, your plan is to terminate my culture
You're f'n evil I want you to recognize that I'm a proud monkey
You vandalize my perception but can't take style from me
And this is more than confession
I mean I might press the button just so you know my discretion
I'm guardin' my feelings, I know that you feel it
You sabotage my community, makin' a killin'
You made me a killer, emancipation of a real nigga"
I read a lot of anger in there. And justifiably so.

I don't understand what you are trying to say though ?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17.04.2018, 12:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 6,496
Groaned at 224 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 8,212 Times in 4,428 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post

I read a lot of anger in there. And justifiably so.

I don't understand what you are trying to say though ?
Me too. Wonder if what OP was trying to say is that many prestigious prizes are very politicised these days or awarded according to some social causes agenda, and that is true imho. I noticed it too.
But that is neither here, nor there. Sometimes the committees are deciding in favour of more shocking work, different patterns. That gangsta' rap would have never been taken into consideration a couple decades ago. Times change.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17.04.2018, 12:43
TheWolverine's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,292 Times in 647 Posts
TheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
Me too. Wonder if what OP was trying to say is that many prestigious prizes are very politicised these days or awarded according to some social causes agenda, and that is true imho. I noticed it too.
But that is neither here, nor there. Sometimes the committees are deciding in favour of more shocking work, different patterns. That gangsta' rap would have never been taken into consideration a couple decades ago. Times change.
Aye. And that's what I'm hoping. I want to believe that prizes, like the Pulitzer, are above these biases.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 17.04.2018, 12:48
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,305
Groaned at 141 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 3,466 Times in 1,389 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
You're right. I should've said "a lot", not "most". Poor choice of words. My bad.
Still, one in 80 is a lot. Also, its not only the gangs. But anyhow, thats not the point.



I read a lot of anger in there. And justifiably so.

I don't understand what you are trying to say though ?

That the lyrics are racist: "You're f'n evil.."
And promote violence: "You made me a killer, emancipation of a real nigga"

I could maybe understand it as an observation of the deeply ingrained racism that keeps the black population oppressed - that being treated as inferior or criminal can quickly turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps he got the idea from reading Richard Wright's Native Son.

But realistically, the lyrics (along with those of the DNA song) are just a lame justification for avoidance of personal responsibility. I have no doubt that very few of his listeners analyze the lyrics and think 'Wow, he's right. Becoming a misogynistic drug dealing thug murderer is the exact opposite of the intended message - doing so would just be falling into the trap!'

Gangsta rap is poison to urban youth.

The Pulitzer committee is praising it, and adding their own racist drivel about it 'capturing the complexity of African-American life'..and in doing so perpetuating more racism and self-fulfilling prophecy.
__________________
you are being programmed
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17.04.2018, 12:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 6,496
Groaned at 224 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 8,212 Times in 4,428 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
Aye. And that's what I'm hoping. I want to believe that prizes, like the Pulitzer, are above these biases.
Oh, but that's a myth. No bias(es) at all? Even Nobel for science are biased...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17.04.2018, 12:54
TheWolverine's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,292 Times in 647 Posts
TheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
That the lyrics are racist: "You're f'n evil.."
And promote violence: "You made me a killer, emancipation of a real nigga"

I could maybe understand it as an observation of the deeply ingrained racism that keeps the black population oppressed - that being treated as inferior or criminal can quickly turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps he got the idea from reading Richard Wright's Native Son.

But realistically, the lyrics (along with those of the DNA song) are just a lame justification for avoidance of personal responsibility. I have no doubt that very few of his listeners analyze the lyrics and think 'Wow, he's right. Becoming a misogynistic drug dealing thug murderer is the exact opposite of the intended message - doing so would just be falling into the trap!'

Gangsta rap is poison to urban youth.

The Pulitzer committee is praising it, and adding their own racist drivel about it 'capturing the complexity of African-American life'
I disagree.

Like any medium, Gangsta Rap carries a message. The interpretation of that message, however, depends on who listens to it. This really makes me think again of the whole "video games promote violence" debate. I don't agree with that either.

I believe, or lets say would like to believe, that the lyrics of the songs are representations of his thoughts. Whether someone listens to them and goes "Oh it would be cool to be a gangster" is the same as saying Scarface promoted gun violence.
I dunno man. Does media (Entertainment, News etc...) have an influence on the youth ? Definitely. But then again this depends largely on the environment the youth are in and how they interpret it. I don't think a song about my anaconda is going to make me do...gosh...whatever that young lady intended me to do about it.


Quote:
View Post
Oh, but that's a myth. No bias(es) at all? Even Nobel for science are biased...
Yeah. Sigh. That's why I said "I want to..."
__________________
"You picked the wrong house, Bub"
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 6,496
Groaned at 224 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 8,212 Times in 4,428 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

General off topic discussions don't have the thanks button ; first world problem here. I liked your posts a lot, Wolverine.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:10
TheWolverine's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,292 Times in 647 Posts
TheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
General off topic discussions don't have the thanks button ; first world problem here. I liked your posts a lot, Wolverine.
Appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:17
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,305
Groaned at 141 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 3,466 Times in 1,389 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
I disagree.

Like any medium, Gangsta Rap carries a message. The interpretation of that message, however, depends on who listens to it. This really makes me think again of the whole "video games promote violence" debate. I don't agree with that either.





maybe even more relevant:

Last edited by pilatus1; 17.04.2018 at 13:23. Reason: better vid
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:27
TheWolverine's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,292 Times in 647 Posts
TheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
...Academic Morgan Freeman...
First thought : He is a teacher trying to educate the kids about the dangers of taking Gangsta Rap at its face value. And I get him. I'm sure the book is well written. (Which I need to order btw. I want to read it. Good reviews as well.)

And he isn't wrong.

BUT...that's still not the point. Is Gangsta Rap a valid form of expression and music ? And does it deserve to be credibly considered for awards and prizes such as the Pulitzer ?

I'm still saying yes.

Because just because something carries a tough message, or generally might be linked with, and I quote the dude in the video, "racial stereotyping" does not necessarily completely remove its merit for being considered good.

EDIT: Didn't watch the second video yet.
__________________
"You picked the wrong house, Bub"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:28
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,305
Groaned at 141 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 3,466 Times in 1,389 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
General off topic discussions don't have the thanks button ; first world problem here. I liked your posts a lot, Wolverine.
Quote:
View Post
Appreciated.
group hug!

since there's no thanks button, thanks in advance to everyone who posts their thoughts here.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:34
TheWolverine's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,421
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,292 Times in 647 Posts
TheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond reputeTheWolverine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
group hug!

since there's no thanks button, thanks in advance to everyone who posts their thoughts here.
Awwww.


I was just skimming the wikipedia article on Gangsta Rap.
This dance is not the first. Obviously.
Also, in unrelated news, the wiki also informed me that there is german gangsta rap.
I am fascinated.
If anyone needs me, I'll be soundcloud-ing and spotify-ing this evening.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 6,496
Groaned at 224 Times in 175 Posts
Thanked 8,212 Times in 4,428 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
Awwww.
He listened to too much gangsta' rap.

Wolverine, gangsta rap is gaining terrain in Europe and is not necessarily related to racial issues (in some cases is - French gangsta rap for instance), more like a youth related social manifesto.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:52
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,305
Groaned at 141 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 3,466 Times in 1,389 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

Quote:
View Post
He listened to too much gangsta' rap.
i wont deny it.

I even had an NWA poster on my wall, back in '89.

then i discovered jazz.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 17.04.2018, 13:55
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,305
Groaned at 141 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 3,466 Times in 1,389 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pulitzer Prize has lost nearly all credibility

NSFW



lol
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has any body won a prize? Aussie kev General off-topic 32 13.01.2012 21:25
Great with Computers, research, can organise, (nearly) has Deutsch B1 Kurt Human Jobs wanted 0 08.09.2010 14:43
Annimals - injured/lost/nearly run over - who do you call? smackerjack Daily life 7 03.09.2010 13:41
Help! My daughter has lost her cuddly![lost blanket, how to replace or find the lost] votentia General off-topic 16 23.03.2010 13:21
[ALL SOLD OUT]Great Deal on nearly New Bedroom Stuff chrisnancrede Items for sale 5 25.01.2008 17:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0